frazzledgear
Senior Member
- Mar 17, 2008
- 1,479
- 544
- 48
So Obama has issued an executive order saying all intelligence interrogations will be conducted in accordance with the methods detailed in the Army Manual -while saying this will ban "torture". (All military interrogations were always confined to the methods in the Army Manual.) And liberals are gloating over this bone he tossed them and pretending it somehow represents something really different from what existed under Bush.
Couple of things slipped their notice though apparently. At the very same time, Obama also authorized a special task force to draw up a list of more harsh and aggressive interrogation methods he wants included in the Army Manual -because the methods listed now are so RESTRICTIVE. So Obama intends to rewrite that section of the Army Manual and include harsher and more aggressive interrogation techniques. And he intends to include a classified section to the Army Manual that would "allow" the Commander-in-Chief to authorize the most extreme interrogations when deemed critically important to the security of the nation.
But the inclusion of that classified section is meaningless -because the Army Manual cannot bestow any wartime powers to the Commander-in-Chief. Only the Constitution does. So it is just superficial cover by Obama who in effect has simply done a bait-and-switch on liberals - with one major difference.
Under Bush, interrogations carried out by military personnel were always performed in accordance with the Army Manual. And only SOME intelligence interrogations were more aggressive and only a handful of terrorists who were specifically believed to have critically important information subjected to methods like waterboarding -a decision that was always made on a case-by-case basis. (Hard to pretend its torture if done to a terrorist intent on not revealing information that could save thousands of lives or more - but fine and dandy to do it to our own people since those trained to waterboard also had to personally endure it for extended periods of time.)
Regardless of who holds the office, our Presidents always have the authority to authorize all sorts of acts during wartime that are not normally allowed otherwise -IF those acts are deemed by the President to be vitally necessary in order to defend the nation and protect the lives of Americans in this country. Presidents don't do them unless they also believe they can be defended as such in any legal challenge that may come afterwards. Which is how FDR got away with tossing more than 100,000 innocent Americans into detention camps and forcing them to sell off their possessions at ten cents on the dollar and how Lincoln got away with tossing newspaper editors into prison and holding them for the duration of the war for writing editorials Lincoln deemed "demoralizing" to the nation, how FDR got away with authorizing the FBI to open and read all incoming private mail to anyone inside this country that came from Germany without a shred of evidence the American recipient was in any way involved in espionage or anti-US activity, and how FDR also got away with wiretapping all phone calls coming into this country originating anywhere in Europe etc. All that and more has been repeatedly upheld by the Supreme Court as a legitimate wartime power when a President deemed it critically necessary for the security of this nation and its people.
If terrorists sneaked a nuke into one of our cities and we captured someone believed to know the specific city and time it was to be detonated -no Supreme Court would rule the President had no right to authorize whatever it took to get that information. Every nation on earth would do whatever it took to get that information from someone if it were THEIR nation involved -and so would the US. Any challenge to that authority could only come after the fact, after it was a done deal -and either lives were saved as a result, or it was too late. But at no time would the Supreme Court rule that a President must allow thousands and even millions of Americans to be slaughtered rather than do whatever it took to get that information from someone. Our Constitution is NOT a suicide pact even though liberals insist it is. But in fact, our Constitution repeatedly recognizes the fact that Americans have the greater right to their LIFE than an enemy has the "right" to kill them. Just because liberals disagree, doesn't obligate any President to just sit on his hands and let it happen.
So including a classified section in the Army Manual that is merely re-iterating what the Supreme Court has already repeatedly ruled can be a legitimate power of a President when deemed vitally necessary and pretending THAT document somehow gives "official" authority to the Commander-in-Chief to authorize the most extreme interrogation -and as if it means this was something Bush didn't also have all along as well -is a JOKE. The Army Manual cannot bestow ANY powers on a President and Commander-in-Chief. It is merely an AFFIRMATION and RECOGNITION that the Commander-in-Chief always has the authority to exercise this power if deemed necessary.
Liberals are so ridiculously superficial as to pretend what Obama is doing somehow represents a real change. Something changed alright -but not what they think did. Unlike what existed with Bush - under Obama harsh and aggressive interrogation methods will become part of the Army Manual. Which means such practices will not only be allowed for BOTH military and intelligence interrogations -but will be an acceptable practice and matter of ROUTINE. Whether the individual is even believed to have important information or not.
Is that really what liberals thought was going to happen when they were chanting about wanting "change"? LOL
Couple of things slipped their notice though apparently. At the very same time, Obama also authorized a special task force to draw up a list of more harsh and aggressive interrogation methods he wants included in the Army Manual -because the methods listed now are so RESTRICTIVE. So Obama intends to rewrite that section of the Army Manual and include harsher and more aggressive interrogation techniques. And he intends to include a classified section to the Army Manual that would "allow" the Commander-in-Chief to authorize the most extreme interrogations when deemed critically important to the security of the nation.
But the inclusion of that classified section is meaningless -because the Army Manual cannot bestow any wartime powers to the Commander-in-Chief. Only the Constitution does. So it is just superficial cover by Obama who in effect has simply done a bait-and-switch on liberals - with one major difference.
Under Bush, interrogations carried out by military personnel were always performed in accordance with the Army Manual. And only SOME intelligence interrogations were more aggressive and only a handful of terrorists who were specifically believed to have critically important information subjected to methods like waterboarding -a decision that was always made on a case-by-case basis. (Hard to pretend its torture if done to a terrorist intent on not revealing information that could save thousands of lives or more - but fine and dandy to do it to our own people since those trained to waterboard also had to personally endure it for extended periods of time.)
Regardless of who holds the office, our Presidents always have the authority to authorize all sorts of acts during wartime that are not normally allowed otherwise -IF those acts are deemed by the President to be vitally necessary in order to defend the nation and protect the lives of Americans in this country. Presidents don't do them unless they also believe they can be defended as such in any legal challenge that may come afterwards. Which is how FDR got away with tossing more than 100,000 innocent Americans into detention camps and forcing them to sell off their possessions at ten cents on the dollar and how Lincoln got away with tossing newspaper editors into prison and holding them for the duration of the war for writing editorials Lincoln deemed "demoralizing" to the nation, how FDR got away with authorizing the FBI to open and read all incoming private mail to anyone inside this country that came from Germany without a shred of evidence the American recipient was in any way involved in espionage or anti-US activity, and how FDR also got away with wiretapping all phone calls coming into this country originating anywhere in Europe etc. All that and more has been repeatedly upheld by the Supreme Court as a legitimate wartime power when a President deemed it critically necessary for the security of this nation and its people.
If terrorists sneaked a nuke into one of our cities and we captured someone believed to know the specific city and time it was to be detonated -no Supreme Court would rule the President had no right to authorize whatever it took to get that information. Every nation on earth would do whatever it took to get that information from someone if it were THEIR nation involved -and so would the US. Any challenge to that authority could only come after the fact, after it was a done deal -and either lives were saved as a result, or it was too late. But at no time would the Supreme Court rule that a President must allow thousands and even millions of Americans to be slaughtered rather than do whatever it took to get that information from someone. Our Constitution is NOT a suicide pact even though liberals insist it is. But in fact, our Constitution repeatedly recognizes the fact that Americans have the greater right to their LIFE than an enemy has the "right" to kill them. Just because liberals disagree, doesn't obligate any President to just sit on his hands and let it happen.
So including a classified section in the Army Manual that is merely re-iterating what the Supreme Court has already repeatedly ruled can be a legitimate power of a President when deemed vitally necessary and pretending THAT document somehow gives "official" authority to the Commander-in-Chief to authorize the most extreme interrogation -and as if it means this was something Bush didn't also have all along as well -is a JOKE. The Army Manual cannot bestow ANY powers on a President and Commander-in-Chief. It is merely an AFFIRMATION and RECOGNITION that the Commander-in-Chief always has the authority to exercise this power if deemed necessary.
Liberals are so ridiculously superficial as to pretend what Obama is doing somehow represents a real change. Something changed alright -but not what they think did. Unlike what existed with Bush - under Obama harsh and aggressive interrogation methods will become part of the Army Manual. Which means such practices will not only be allowed for BOTH military and intelligence interrogations -but will be an acceptable practice and matter of ROUTINE. Whether the individual is even believed to have important information or not.
Is that really what liberals thought was going to happen when they were chanting about wanting "change"? LOL
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