Homosexuals should not be accepted into U.S. military forces.

[daveman]

Right wingers are so consistent.

Really? What makes you say that...SFC Ollie's opposition to the repeal of DADT, or my support of it?

I'll give you a few moments to think that over. Let me know if you need a hand.

Dave, I believe he means a far right winger. In my book you are a strong fiscal conservative and believe in individual rights without religion dictating those rights.
Don't mean to label you completely but there is a difference in my world.

Thank you, but to RDean, everyone to the right of Trotsky is a far-right winger.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I have answered you to the best of my ability, I have stated I do not have all the answers and you keep on asking for them.

Yes. I keep asking for support to your opinion because, as you said, it's your opinion. So we go back to one of my original points in that opinions can be good or bad, and bad opinions are generally marked by lack of support and inability to provide reasoning behind them. THAT is why you don't have all the answers.

Yes billeting is a problem. It's probably the biggest problem.

The military cannot force a male and female to bunk in the same room.

Let's look at that. Why would it be a problem for males and females to bunk in the same room? Or do you not have an answer for that too, even though you just said it?

So can we force a straight person to bunk with a known Gay person?

We're already forcing straight and gay people to bunk together in the military now. For some reason you think the world will change if people are known to be gay and they continue to bunk with straight people. Ridiculous.

Just because a Man and woman are in the same room doesn't mean anything will happen either, but the military is smart enough not to chance it.

Again, what do you think the military is "chancing" if a man and woman are in the same room? Let's actually run through logic instead of completely unsupported opinion where you throw your hands in the air with a "i don't have the answers but I'll make completely ridiculous opinions about it anyway". Logic should determine these things, not your method.

Like I said, this will require special treatment and I do not have the answers.

Do you even realize the two parts of this sentence are in direct disagreement with one another? In the first part you are insisting that such a change WILL REQUIRE something, and in the second you show that you should be held unaccountable to support that guess.

 

[Ropey]

The militaries of the world have a variety of responses to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) individuals. Most Western military forces have now removed policies excluding non-heterosexual individuals (with strict policies on sexual harassment). Of the 26 countries that participate militarily in NATO, more than 22 permit gay people to serve; of the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, three (United Kingdom, France, and Russia) permit gay people to serve openly and two (China and the United States) do not.

Clicky

I believe America needs to move forward on this front. They will, even if the older baby boomers still are a strong voice.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I have answered you to the best of my ability, I have stated I do not have all the answers and you keep on asking for them.

Yes. I keep asking for support to your opinion because, as you said, it's your opinion. So we go back to one of my original points in that opinions can be good or bad, and bad opinions are generally marked by lack of support and inability to provide reasoning behind them. THAT is why you don't have all the answers.

Yes billeting is a problem. It's probably the biggest problem.

The military cannot force a male and female to bunk in the same room.

Let's look at that. Why would it be a problem for males and females to bunk in the same room? Or do you not have an answer for that too, even though you just said it?


We're already forcing straight and gay people to bunk together in the military now. For some reason you think the world will change if people are known to be gay and they continue to bunk with straight people. Ridiculous.

Just because a Man and woman are in the same room doesn't mean anything will happen either, but the military is smart enough not to chance it.

Again, what do you think the military is "chancing" if a man and woman are in the same room? Let's actually run through logic instead of completely unsupported opinion where you throw your hands in the air with a "i don't have the answers but I'll make completely ridiculous opinions about it anyway". Logic should determine these things, not your method.

Like I said, this will require special treatment and I do not have the answers.

Do you even realize the two parts of this sentence are in direct disagreement with one another? In the first part you are insisting that such a change WILL REQUIRE something, and in the second you show that you should be held unaccountable to support that guess.

Do you know that I tend to ignore stupidity? And you are getting very stupid.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The militaries of the world have a variety of responses to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) individuals. Most Western military forces have now removed policies excluding non-heterosexual individuals (with strict policies on sexual harassment). Of the 26 countries that participate militarily in NATO, more than 22 permit gay people to serve; of the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, three (United Kingdom, France, and Russia) permit gay people to serve openly and two (China and the United States) do not.

Clicky

I believe America needs to move forward on this front. They will, even if the older baby boomers still are a strong voice.

Do you know that in Briton they only permitted gays to serve because of a European court? So they caved in to the rest of Europe.

 

[Ropey]

Do you know that in Briton they only permitted gays to serve because of a European court? So they caved in to the rest of Europe.

That's entirely possible SFC, and if asked without research I would tend to agree. Now I will research because you did not give a link.

They even take their gentry to court for such acts.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I have answered you to the best of my ability, I have stated I do not have all the answers and you keep on asking for them.

Yes. I keep asking for support to your opinion because, as you said, it's your opinion. So we go back to one of my original points in that opinions can be good or bad, and bad opinions are generally marked by lack of support and inability to provide reasoning behind them. THAT is why you don't have all the answers.


Let's look at that. Why would it be a problem for males and females to bunk in the same room? Or do you not have an answer for that too, even though you just said it?


We're already forcing straight and gay people to bunk together in the military now. For some reason you think the world will change if people are known to be gay and they continue to bunk with straight people. Ridiculous.


Again, what do you think the military is "chancing" if a man and woman are in the same room? Let's actually run through logic instead of completely unsupported opinion where you throw your hands in the air with a "i don't have the answers but I'll make completely ridiculous opinions about it anyway". Logic should determine these things, not your method.

Like I said, this will require special treatment and I do not have the answers.

Do you even realize the two parts of this sentence are in direct disagreement with one another? In the first part you are insisting that such a change WILL REQUIRE something, and in the second you show that you should be held unaccountable to support that guess.

Do you know that I tend to ignore stupidity? And you are getting very stupid.

You mean........you tend to ignore people that make YOU look stupid.

Try again Stupid Fucker Called Ollie.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Yes. I keep asking for support to your opinion because, as you said, it's your opinion. So we go back to one of my original points in that opinions can be good or bad, and bad opinions are generally marked by lack of support and inability to provide reasoning behind them. THAT is why you don't have all the answers.


Let's look at that. Why would it be a problem for males and females to bunk in the same room? Or do you not have an answer for that too, even though you just said it?


We're already forcing straight and gay people to bunk together in the military now. For some reason you think the world will change if people are known to be gay and they continue to bunk with straight people. Ridiculous.


Again, what do you think the military is "chancing" if a man and woman are in the same room? Let's actually run through logic instead of completely unsupported opinion where you throw your hands in the air with a "i don't have the answers but I'll make completely ridiculous opinions about it anyway". Logic should determine these things, not your method.


Do you even realize the two parts of this sentence are in direct disagreement with one another? In the first part you are insisting that such a change WILL REQUIRE something, and in the second you show that you should be held unaccountable to support that guess.

Do you know that I tend to ignore stupidity? And you are getting very stupid.

You mean........you tend to ignore people that make YOU look stupid.

Try again Stupid Fucker Called Ollie.

The person who is really, really, really looking stupid here is you, with your ignorant personal attacks instead of intelligent conversation. I guess Navy NCO's aren't taught that though. But we've grown accustomed to your ignorance and stupidity and have learned that you just don't know any better way to communicate. It's OK, I'm sure you can blame it on someone.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You're the one that can't form a cogent argument against the repeal of DADT.

Not only that, you've never served alongside a gay servicemember under DADT.

I have.

Like I said Stupid Fucker Called Ollie, you don't know of what you speak and your bigotry is blinding you.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Do you know that I tend to ignore stupidity? And you are getting very stupid.

Judging by your completely unsupported opinion quickly followed with your tag line of "I don't have the answers", it appears you tend to ignore intelligence as well.

So let's recap: Every other NATO country has successfully allowed gays to serve openly in the military. You oppose it, not because you are able to provide examples of things that would change or go wrong, and not even because you served in the military and can offer key insight into the issue, but ONLY because you are a human being with the capacity to form an opinion, however unsupported that may be. You want to hinder US policy based on a hunch, essentially.

And after being thoroughly exposed by me as a hack making blind guesses, you decide it is time that you ignore the conversation and high-tail it out of here. You are a poor representation of this country's great military if that is what you learned while you served. Go run and hide now. Next time you decide to offer your opinion, bring better ammo.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I have answered you to the best of my ability, I have stated I do not have all the answers and you keep on asking for them.

Yes. I keep asking for support to your opinion because, as you said, it's your opinion. So we go back to one of my original points in that opinions can be good or bad, and bad opinions are generally marked by lack of support and inability to provide reasoning behind them. THAT is why you don't have all the answers.


Let's look at that. Why would it be a problem for males and females to bunk in the same room? Or do you not have an answer for that too, even though you just said it?


We're already forcing straight and gay people to bunk together in the military now. For some reason you think the world will change if people are known to be gay and they continue to bunk with straight people. Ridiculous.


Again, what do you think the military is "chancing" if a man and woman are in the same room? Let's actually run through logic instead of completely unsupported opinion where you throw your hands in the air with a "i don't have the answers but I'll make completely ridiculous opinions about it anyway". Logic should determine these things, not your method.

Like I said, this will require special treatment and I do not have the answers.

Do you even realize the two parts of this sentence are in direct disagreement with one another? In the first part you are insisting that such a change WILL REQUIRE something, and in the second you show that you should be held unaccountable to support that guess.

Do you know that I tend to ignore stupidity? And you are getting very stupid.

Why would it be a problem for male and female soldiers to sleep in the same room? You truly are stupid aren't you? Go out among the female population and ask any of them if they would have a problem arriving at a new place of residence and finding out that they were to sleep in the same room as some guy they had never met. Let us know how that works for you.

Yes for many people they will not want to live in the same room as a gay person. No I do not have any numbers, but if you get a true survey my bet is I'm right.

You talk about logic and about males and females sharing quarters............. You have a problem.

"Like I said, this will require special treatment and I do not have the answers. "

No this is not a contradiction at all. When DADT is repealed, and I'm certain that eventually it will be, then there will have to be changes and special treatment. I do not know what all those changes and treatment will consist of.

Now go away child you have much to learn about life, go learn it.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yes. I keep asking for support to your opinion because, as you said, it's your opinion. So we go back to one of my original points in that opinions can be good or bad, and bad opinions are generally marked by lack of support and inability to provide reasoning behind them. THAT is why you don't have all the answers.


Let's look at that. Why would it be a problem for males and females to bunk in the same room? Or do you not have an answer for that too, even though you just said it?


We're already forcing straight and gay people to bunk together in the military now. For some reason you think the world will change if people are known to be gay and they continue to bunk with straight people. Ridiculous.


Again, what do you think the military is "chancing" if a man and woman are in the same room? Let's actually run through logic instead of completely unsupported opinion where you throw your hands in the air with a "i don't have the answers but I'll make completely ridiculous opinions about it anyway". Logic should determine these things, not your method.


Do you even realize the two parts of this sentence are in direct disagreement with one another? In the first part you are insisting that such a change WILL REQUIRE something, and in the second you show that you should be held unaccountable to support that guess.

Do you know that I tend to ignore stupidity? And you are getting very stupid.

Why would it be a problem for male and female soldiers to sleep in the same room? You truly are stupid aren't you? Go out among the female population and ask any of them if they would have a problem arriving at a new place of residence and finding out that they were to sleep in the same room as some guy they had never met. Let us know how that works for you.

Yes for many people they will not want to live in the same room as a gay person. No I do not have any numbers, but if you get a true survey my bet is I'm right.

You talk about logic and about males and females sharing quarters............. You have a problem.

"Like I said, this will require special treatment and I do not have the answers. "

No this is not a contradiction at all. When DADT is repealed, and I'm certain that eventually it will be, then there will have to be changes and special treatment. I do not know what all those changes and treatment will consist of.

Now go away child you have much to learn about life, go learn it.

Speaking of people who have much to learn about life, you'd do well to go learn a lesson or two yourself Stupid Fucker Called Ollie.

You've stated repeatedly that you know nothing about gays, nor do you wish to learn. There have been many on here, and in the news, who have told you repeatedly that gays serve honorably, and many do with distinction, earning high personal awards.

By the way, many straights have slept in the same room as gays, you just didn't notice they were gay. I'd be willing to bet some of your Army buddies were gay.

As far as ignoring stupidity? I personally think it's stupid to quote a post you stated you were going to ignore, and then responding to it.

You're right. You don't have all the answers. Shit........I'm surprised that you even have any, but a broken watch is right 2 times a day.

Keep trying ya dumb fuck.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Got to wonder about a Junior NCO who lies so much.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Got to wonder about a Junior NCO who lies so much.

Yo, chumpsteak, what did I lie about?

 

[SFC Ollie]

You've stated repeatedly that you know nothing about gays, nor do you wish to learn.

How could I know nothing about gays when I have one in the family who used to live in my house with his partner? Keep making shit up.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You've stated repeatedly that you know nothing about gays, nor do you wish to learn.

How could I know nothing about gays when I have one in the family who used to live in my house with his partner? Keep making shit up.

You know about gays from the perspective of a family member, not as a military man.

You have no idea about gays that have served, are currently serving, and will probably continue to serve regardless.

It's quite one thing to talk about it from the stance of a disapproving father.

It's quite another to look at it objectively concerning a person's service. You told us that you'd retired back in 1994 (when DADT was enacted), so therefore, you have zero experience living under the policy and how it affects people living in and around the barracks and the ships.

Try again Stupid Fucking Chump Ollie.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Why would it be a problem for male and female soldiers to sleep in the same room? You truly are stupid aren't you? Go out among the female population and ask any of them if they would have a problem arriving at a new place of residence and finding out that they were to sleep in the same room as some guy they had never met. Let us know how that works for you.

The reason I asked the question was not because I thought there was no problem, but because I wanted you to actually provide an answer to the question. Which you still seem incapable of doing. So let's try again. Why do you believe it would be a bad idea for male and female soldiers to sleep in the same room? I'm asking you to provide your ideas regarding the consequences of that setup.

Yes for many people they will not want to live in the same room as a gay person.

Yes, we've already established you are a bigot and project your bigotry onto others despite no evidence that is the case. The question returns to WHY they will not want to live in the same room.

"Like I said, this will require special treatment and I do not have the answers. "

If you have no support to your point, don't bother making it in the first place.

 

[ConHog]

Why would it be a problem for male and female soldiers to sleep in the same room? You truly are stupid aren't you? Go out among the female population and ask any of them if they would have a problem arriving at a new place of residence and finding out that they were to sleep in the same room as some guy they had never met. Let us know how that works for you.

The reason I asked the question was not because I thought there was no problem, but because I wanted you to actually provide an answer to the question. Which you still seem incapable of doing. So let's try again. Why do you believe it would be a bad idea for male and female soldiers to sleep in the same room? I'm asking you to provide your ideas regarding the consequences of that setup.

Yes for many people they will not want to live in the same room as a gay person.

Yes, we've already established you are a bigot and project your bigotry onto others despite no evidence that is the case. The question returns to WHY they will not want to live in the same room.

"Like I said, this will require special treatment and I do not have the answers. "

If you have no support to your point, don't bother making it in the first place.

There are legitimate concerns to housing gays and straights together etc etc. The question is, do these concerns outweigh the need to get rid of an antiquated, and frankly ignored, policy? In my opinion, no they don't. But pretending like there aren't concerns is just silly.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

straights and gays are already being housed together. that's not the issue. the issue is what happens when the straight guys KNOW about it.

and while I'd love for you to list the consequences you reference, I'd rather you message them to me so Ollie can think for himself.

 

[ConHog]

straights and gays are already being housed together. that's not the issue. the issue is what happens when the straight guys KNOW about it.

and while I'd love for you to list the consequences you reference, I'd rather you message them to me so Ollie can think for himself.

I see no reason to denigrate Ollie here.

You know exactly what consequences I reference. Can I ask if you've served? I don't ask to insult you or to imply that your opinion isn't valid if you haven't. But rather so I have a better feel for if you've ever been in a military living situation.