Homosexuals should not be accepted into U.S. military forces.

[Gadawg73]

straights and gays are already being housed together. that's not the issue. the issue is what happens when the straight guys KNOW about it.

and while I'd love for you to list the consequences you reference, I'd rather you message them to me so Ollie can think for himself.

I see no reason to denigrate Ollie here.

You know exactly what consequences I reference. Can I ask if you've served? I don't ask to insult you or to imply that your opinion isn't valid if you haven't. But rather so I have a better feel for if you've ever been in a military living situation.

I tend to agree but not 100%.
Ollie can take it and coming here he knows what to expect.
However, what better person(s) than Ollie and everyone else that was career military to debate this issue with civilly?
I favor the repeal and support gay rights. But I do not believe I will get a 100% following of retired military to follow.
Ollie is one that will come around with time. Sooner than later he will be with us on this one and he will be a very valuable ally at that time.
Watch and see.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I find valuable allies to be people who can support what they're saying, as that tends to lead to more progress being made. Ollie does not possess that trait, but the world does need followers.

I'm still waiting to see if he will answer.

 

[SFC Ollie]

straights and gays are already being housed together. that's not the issue. the issue is what happens when the straight guys KNOW about it.

and while I'd love for you to list the consequences you reference, I'd rather you message them to me so Ollie can think for himself.

I see no reason to denigrate Ollie here.

You know exactly what consequences I reference. Can I ask if you've served? I don't ask to insult you or to imply that your opinion isn't valid if you haven't. But rather so I have a better feel for if you've ever been in a military living situation.

I tend to agree but not 100%.
Ollie can take it and coming here he knows what to expect.
However, what better person(s) than Ollie and everyone else that was career military to debate this issue with civilly?
I favor the repeal and support gay rights. But I do not believe I will get a 100% following of retired military to follow.
Ollie is one that will come around with time. Sooner than later he will be with us on this one and he will be a very valuable ally at that time.
Watch and see.

No I don't think so. I will accept it when it happens, But I doubt i will support it.

 

[Gadawg73]

I see no reason to denigrate Ollie here.

You know exactly what consequences I reference. Can I ask if you've served? I don't ask to insult you or to imply that your opinion isn't valid if you haven't. But rather so I have a better feel for if you've ever been in a military living situation.

I tend to agree but not 100%.
Ollie can take it and coming here he knows what to expect.
However, what better person(s) than Ollie and everyone else that was career military to debate this issue with civilly?
I favor the repeal and support gay rights. But I do not believe I will get a 100% following of retired military to follow.
Ollie is one that will come around with time. Sooner than later he will be with us on this one and he will be a very valuable ally at that time.
Watch and see.

No I don't think so. I will accept it when it happens, But I doubt i will support it.

It will not be any of us that change your mind.
That will come from the friends and family of those you served with.
You will listen to them and conclude they are right.

 

[Sunni Man]

I find valuable allies to be people who can support what they're saying, as that tends to lead to more progress being made.

How does two soldiers packing each other's fudge lead to "progress" ??

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I thought you learned I was a poor trolling target a while ago.

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

I find valuable allies to be people who can support what they're saying, as that tends to lead to more progress being made.

How does two soldiers packing each other's fudge lead to "progress" ??

Get lost bigot.

 

[Ropey]

I find valuable allies to be people who can support what they're saying, as that tends to lead to more progress being made.

How does two soldiers packing each other's fudge lead to "progress" ??

Because they are human beings. They have been with 'us' since the beginning of man. They have their place and it is progression to give them their rightful place.

I believe that their place is beside the rest of the world.

You have stated what your "Permanent Cure" would be and I reiterate Sunni Man.

Removing the world from homosexuality removes the world from people.

Killing homosexuality is killing people.

From this I extend the view that those who want to rid the world of any peoples, are evil minded.

I have the links for what you have said if you want proof of what you have said regarding homosexuality Sunni Man.

They need to be where they should be which is where they have always been. They just need to be validated as any other worthwhile human being.

You seem to lack that inclusion ability Sunni Man.

For Personal or Ideological reasons, or both? Please explain them.

 

[High_Gravity]

I find valuable allies to be people who can support what they're saying, as that tends to lead to more progress being made.

How does two soldiers packing each other's fudge lead to "progress" ??

Increase the morale of the 2 soldiers?

 

[ABikerSailor]

straights and gays are already being housed together. that's not the issue. the issue is what happens when the straight guys KNOW about it.

and while I'd love for you to list the consequences you reference, I'd rather you message them to me so Ollie can think for himself.

I see no reason to denigrate Ollie here.

You know exactly what consequences I reference. Can I ask if you've served? I don't ask to insult you or to imply that your opinion isn't valid if you haven't. But rather so I have a better feel for if you've ever been in a military living situation.

You know, even though I did push paper in the military, one of the things that was a primary concern was gays in the military and the policy of DADT.

Prior to DADT? If a person said they were gay, or they were caught participating in gay behavior, they were generally discharged in 24-48 hours. Matter of fact, on my first ship, there was an Electrician's Mate who had just gone through advanced electronics training (6 year commitment). He'd been advanced to E-4 and was checking onboard for the next 4 years for his duty station. As soon as he gave me his transfer package, he stated he was gay. I asked him if he understood what would happen from that admission, and he said yes.

He was off the ship 24 hours later as a civilian with an honorable discharge.

Saw the same dude 6 months later in Va. Beach, driving a really nice car with a couple of chicks in it with him. I asked about him being gay, and he stated it was just a way to get out of his enlistment, because some company had just offered him a 50,000/yr job.

After DADT was put in place? Then there were psych screenings, command reviews and it took about 6 months to put someone out of the military.

Repealing DADT would do a lot of good for the military. First off, we wouldn't be losing people who simply wanted out. Second, if gays were able to serve openly, then their SO would be allowed to utilize the ombudsman services provided by the ship to keep in contact with their loved one, as well as be able to be notified by the Red Cross if something happened to their partner back in the States.

The only negative that I can see is that there would be a SMALL attrition rate due to bigoted dinosaurs who wouldn't want to serve with gays, but that would most likely be offset by the sudden influx of gay individuals who actually WANT to be in the military.

Stupid Fucking Chump Ollie never served after DADT was enacted, because he's stated repeatedly that he retired in 1994 (when DADT was put in place).

And..........based on the bigoted way he's posted his homophobic screeds on these boards, I'd be willing to bet that he never knowingly served with, nor is he interested in seeing things from both sides, just his bigoted bullshit.

 

[High_Gravity]

Prior to DADT? If a person said they were gay, or they were caught participating in gay behavior, they were generally discharged in 24-48 hours. Matter of fact, on my first ship, there was an Electrician's Mate who had just gone through advanced electronics training (6 year commitment). He'd been advanced to E-4 and was checking onboard for the next 4 years for his duty station. As soon as he gave me his transfer package, he stated he was gay. I asked him if he understood what would happen from that admission, and he said yes.

He was off the ship 24 hours later as a civilian with an honorable discharge.

Saw the same dude 6 months later in Va. Beach, driving a really nice car with a couple of chicks in it with him. I asked about him being gay, and he stated it was just a way to get out of his enlistment, because some company had just offered him a 50,000/yr job.

I worked in retirements & separations and I discharged a number of gay Airmen at Offutt AFB, from what I understand just admitting you are gay doesn't get you automatically discharged. They had to admit to certain gay acts, get caught commiting a gay act or have evidence against them proving they are gay. If they were in longer than 6 years they were also entitled to severance pay, I discharged a Lesbian female Airman who was in for 8 years, she didn't get kicked out until she got a little kinky at her squadron xmas party and got her secret santa a dildo, and her male room mate turned her in for having sex with a female at their apartment, no idea why he did that, but those were the kinds of things that had to happen for the AF to discharge a gay/lesbian Airman, this was the way it was back in 2003 anyways.

 

[Sunni Man]

I find valuable allies to be people who can support what they're saying, as that tends to lead to more progress being made.

How does two soldiers packing each other's fudge lead to "progress" ??

Because they are human beings. They have been with 'us' since the beginning of man. They have their place and it is progression to give them their rightful place.

Since the beginning of time.

There has also been rapists, murderers, beastiality, homosexuals, child molesters, and other types of perverts.

But that doesn't mean that we must validate their behavior.

Or as a society embrace their lifestyle as if it were normal.

 

[Ropey]

"They have their place and it is progression to give them their rightful place."

We disagree about their rightful place then it would seem.

I see them as side by side and you see them locked away for life unless they 'change'?

Let's just say that we would effect a permanent "cure" for their vile affection.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Prior to DADT? If a person said they were gay, or they were caught participating in gay behavior, they were generally discharged in 24-48 hours. Matter of fact, on my first ship, there was an Electrician's Mate who had just gone through advanced electronics training (6 year commitment). He'd been advanced to E-4 and was checking onboard for the next 4 years for his duty station. As soon as he gave me his transfer package, he stated he was gay. I asked him if he understood what would happen from that admission, and he said yes.

He was off the ship 24 hours later as a civilian with an honorable discharge.

Saw the same dude 6 months later in Va. Beach, driving a really nice car with a couple of chicks in it with him. I asked about him being gay, and he stated it was just a way to get out of his enlistment, because some company had just offered him a 50,000/yr job.

I worked in retirements & separations and I discharged a number of gay Airmen at Offutt AFB, from what I understand just admitting you are gay doesn't get you automatically discharged. They had to admit to certain gay acts, get caught commiting a gay act or have evidence against them proving they are gay. If they were in longer than 6 years they were also entitled to severance pay, I discharged a Lesbian female Airman who was in for 8 years, she didn't get kicked out until she got a little kinky at her squadron xmas party and got her secret santa a dildo, and her male room mate turned her in for having sex with a female at their apartment, no idea why he did that, but those were the kinds of things that had to happen for the AF to discharge a gay/lesbian Airman, this was the way it was back in 2003 anyways.

From 1982 (year I enlisted) until 1994 (the time DADT was enacted), people who admitted to being gay were kicked out within 24-48 hours.

After DADT? They had to go through the screening process which took roughly 6 months.

All DADT did was buy 'em some time when they were outed.

 

[Gadawg73]

Prior to DADT? If a person said they were gay, or they were caught participating in gay behavior, they were generally discharged in 24-48 hours. Matter of fact, on my first ship, there was an Electrician's Mate who had just gone through advanced electronics training (6 year commitment). He'd been advanced to E-4 and was checking onboard for the next 4 years for his duty station. As soon as he gave me his transfer package, he stated he was gay. I asked him if he understood what would happen from that admission, and he said yes.

He was off the ship 24 hours later as a civilian with an honorable discharge.

Saw the same dude 6 months later in Va. Beach, driving a really nice car with a couple of chicks in it with him. I asked about him being gay, and he stated it was just a way to get out of his enlistment, because some company had just offered him a 50,000/yr job.

I worked in retirements & separations and I discharged a number of gay Airmen at Offutt AFB, from what I understand just admitting you are gay doesn't get you automatically discharged. They had to admit to certain gay acts, get caught commiting a gay act or have evidence against them proving they are gay. If they were in longer than 6 years they were also entitled to severance pay, I discharged a Lesbian female Airman who was in for 8 years, she didn't get kicked out until she got a little kinky at her squadron xmas party and got her secret santa a dildo, and her male room mate turned her in for having sex with a female at their apartment, no idea why he did that, but those were the kinds of things that had to happen for the AF to discharge a gay/lesbian Airman, this was the way it was back in 2003 anyways.

If I bent over a brunette that looked like Monica Lewinsky with a blonde wig on, high heels, a trench coat and doggy styled her in my apartment would I have been discharged?
Hell no.
No offense but your post is not relevant to the issues at hand.

 

[High_Gravity]

Prior to DADT? If a person said they were gay, or they were caught participating in gay behavior, they were generally discharged in 24-48 hours. Matter of fact, on my first ship, there was an Electrician's Mate who had just gone through advanced electronics training (6 year commitment). He'd been advanced to E-4 and was checking onboard for the next 4 years for his duty station. As soon as he gave me his transfer package, he stated he was gay. I asked him if he understood what would happen from that admission, and he said yes.

He was off the ship 24 hours later as a civilian with an honorable discharge.

Saw the same dude 6 months later in Va. Beach, driving a really nice car with a couple of chicks in it with him. I asked about him being gay, and he stated it was just a way to get out of his enlistment, because some company had just offered him a 50,000/yr job.

I worked in retirements & separations and I discharged a number of gay Airmen at Offutt AFB, from what I understand just admitting you are gay doesn't get you automatically discharged. They had to admit to certain gay acts, get caught commiting a gay act or have evidence against them proving they are gay. If they were in longer than 6 years they were also entitled to severance pay, I discharged a Lesbian female Airman who was in for 8 years, she didn't get kicked out until she got a little kinky at her squadron xmas party and got her secret santa a dildo, and her male room mate turned her in for having sex with a female at their apartment, no idea why he did that, but those were the kinds of things that had to happen for the AF to discharge a gay/lesbian Airman, this was the way it was back in 2003 anyways.

If I bent over a brunette that looked like Monica Lewinsky with a blonde wig on, high heels, a trench coat and doggy styled her in my apartment would I have been discharged?
Hell no.
No offense but your post is not relevant to the issues at hand.

Huh? I was discussing with ABikersailor the different ways on how gay service members got discharged before and after DADT was put into effect, thank you but I think yes it is very much relevant.

 

[Gadawg73]

I worked in retirements & separations and I discharged a number of gay Airmen at Offutt AFB, from what I understand just admitting you are gay doesn't get you automatically discharged. They had to admit to certain gay acts, get caught commiting a gay act or have evidence against them proving they are gay. If they were in longer than 6 years they were also entitled to severance pay, I discharged a Lesbian female Airman who was in for 8 years, she didn't get kicked out until she got a little kinky at her squadron xmas party and got her secret santa a dildo, and her male room mate turned her in for having sex with a female at their apartment, no idea why he did that, but those were the kinds of things that had to happen for the AF to discharge a gay/lesbian Airman, this was the way it was back in 2003 anyways.

If I bent over a brunette that looked like Monica Lewinsky with a blonde wig on, high heels, a trench coat and doggy styled her in my apartment would I have been discharged?
Hell no.
No offense but your post is not relevant to the issues at hand.

Huh? I was discussing with ABikersailor the different ways on how gay service members got discharged before and after DADT was put into effect, thank you but I think yes it is very much relevant.

What they do in their apartment should not be relevant. It isn't for straights and should not be for gays.
That is what I meant by being relevant and that is why I stated no offesne to you as I was making my point in reference to what you did.

 

[High_Gravity]

If I bent over a brunette that looked like Monica Lewinsky with a blonde wig on, high heels, a trench coat and doggy styled her in my apartment would I have been discharged?
Hell no.
No offense but your post is not relevant to the issues at hand.

Huh? I was discussing with ABikersailor the different ways on how gay service members got discharged before and after DADT was put into effect, thank you but I think yes it is very much relevant.

What they do in their apartment should not be relevant. It isn't for straights and should not be for gays.
That is what I meant by being relevant and that is why I stated no offesne to you as I was making my point in reference to what you did.

Thats not the way it works in the Military, the Military does have the right to be in your bedroom. If are gay or lesbian and you have sex with a person of the same gender and someone reports you the Military will investigate it, whether you did this in your apartment, the beach, a hotel or whatever. This doesn't just apply to gay people either, if you are married and you cheat on your spouse, you can face court martial for adultry. You can also face charges if you are caught fucking an officer, this isn't like the free world where you can fuck whoever you want whenever you want, the Military has alot of rules and they pertain to all Military members wherever they are, you cannot hide from Military rules in the saftey of a cozy apartment.

 

[52ndStreet]

Huh? I was discussing with ABikersailor the different ways on how gay service members got discharged before and after DADT was put into effect, thank you but I think yes it is very much relevant.

What they do in their apartment should not be relevant. It isn't for straights and should not be for gays.
That is what I meant by being relevant and that is why I stated no offesne to you as I was making my point in reference to what you did.

Thats not the way it works in the Military, the Military does have the right to be in your bedroom. If are gay or lesbian and you have sex with a person of the same gender and someone reports you the Military will investigate it, whether you did this in your apartment, the beach, a hotel or whatever. This doesn't just apply to gay people either, if you are married and you cheat on your spouse, you can face court martial for adultry. You can also face charges if you are caught fucking an officer, this isn't like the free world where you can fuck whoever you want whenever you want, the Military has alot of rules and they pertain to all Military members wherever they are, you cannot hide from Military rules in the saftey of a cozy apartment.

This is exactly my point. The military holds enlisted soldiers to a higher standard, than lets
say a regular civilian employer. If you sleep with another soldiers wife, you can be brought up on adultry charges.! So why would the military now be even thinking about letting in openly
homosexual sodomites into the U.S armed forces.!? It goes against the military code of
ethics. As far as I am concerned, homosexuality is a highly unethical act. Sodomy is still
a crime punishable by death in many countries throughout the world.!
Homosexuals should not be allowed in the U.S. armed forces.

 

[High_Gravity]

What they do in their apartment should not be relevant. It isn't for straights and should not be for gays.
That is what I meant by being relevant and that is why I stated no offesne to you as I was making my point in reference to what you did.

Thats not the way it works in the Military, the Military does have the right to be in your bedroom. If are gay or lesbian and you have sex with a person of the same gender and someone reports you the Military will investigate it, whether you did this in your apartment, the beach, a hotel or whatever. This doesn't just apply to gay people either, if you are married and you cheat on your spouse, you can face court martial for adultry. You can also face charges if you are caught fucking an officer, this isn't like the free world where you can fuck whoever you want whenever you want, the Military has alot of rules and they pertain to all Military members wherever they are, you cannot hide from Military rules in the saftey of a cozy apartment.

This is exactly my point. The military holds enlisted soldiers to a higher standard, than lets
say a regular civilian employer. If you sleep with another soldiers wife, you can be brought up on adultry charges.! So why would the military now be even thinking about letting in openly
homosexual sodomites into the U.S armed forces.!? It goes against the military code of
ethics. As far as I am concerned, homosexuality is a highly unethical act. Sodomy is still
a crime punishable by death in many countries throughout the world.!
Homosexuals should not be allowed in the U.S. armed forces.

Well I believe the Military has alot of out dated laws on their books, to me if a Soldier is going through a divorce and goes out with his buddies and has a one night stand, he should not be held accountable for that, it is silly. A friend of mine in the Air Force got in trouble for going out with girls while he was going through a divorce, his soon to be ex wife had already left the area and the divorce was a month away from being final, but since he was still technically married, his First Sergeant insisted on pressing the issue and he faced non judicial punishment. Shit like this is silly and one of the main reasons I got out of the Military to begin with.