Historic B-29 at the bottom of Lake Mead

[Robert W]

This crash happened that by now few know of this tragic event. America lost a B-29 bomber in 1948 when it crashed into Lake Mead. This is the story.

Historic Lake Mead B-29 - Lake Mead National Recreation Area (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

 

[The Duke]

I have heard of this. They found some Allied planes in Greenland or Iceland largely intact with the bodies still frozen, too.

Here it is:

Long Lost WWII P-38 Discovered Under 300 Feet of Ice in Greenland

The P-38 "Echo" is part of the Lost Squadron of aircraft that were forced to crash land in Greenland during a blizzard.

www.popularmechanics.com

 

[Robert W]

The P-38 was recovered. The B 29 at Lake Mead crashed with all aboard surviving the crash.

A B29 that landed on Greenland was repaired to flying condition but when the engines were run up prior to take off, the plane caught fire and was totally lost in the fire.

 

[Mushroom]

A B29 that landed on Greenland was repaired to flying condition but when the engines were run up prior to take off, the plane caught fire and was totally lost in the fire.

The "Kee Bird", I remember watching a documentary on that shortly after it happened. It was sad they did so much work to recover it, then could do nothing but watch it burn.

 

[Stryder50]

I have heard of this. They found some Allied planes in Greenland or Iceland largely intact with the bodies still frozen, too.

Here it is:

Long Lost WWII P-38 Discovered Under 300 Feet of Ice in Greenland

The P-38 "Echo" is part of the Lost Squadron of aircraft that were forced to crash land in Greenland during a blizzard.

www.popularmechanics.com

It was Greenland and there were no frozen bodies. The planes(2 x B-17 and 6 x P-38) did controlled crash landings and all the crews were rescued.
One of the P-38s (out of six) has been recovered and restored to flying condition.
Glacier Girl;

Glacier Girl: The Back Story

How it got trapped in the ice, and how it got out

www.smithsonianmag.com

P-38F Lightning — Lewis Air Legends

lewisairlegends.com

Glacier Girl – Prairie

Glacier Girl | P-38 Assn

p38assn.org

 

[Stryder50]

The "Kee Bird", I remember watching a documentary on that shortly after it happened. It was sad they did so much work to recover it, then could do nothing but watch it burn.

Seems they forgot to check the mountings of the auxiliary power unit in the tail and while taxiing to take off, the unit tipped and caught fire. After all the work restoring fabric control surfaces, rebuilding engines and everything else, rather embarrassing to have over looked this item.

 

[Stryder50]

It was Greenland and there were no frozen bodies. The planes(2 x B-17 and 6 x P-38) did controlled crash landings and all the crews were rescued.
One of the P-38s (out of six) has been recovered and restored to flying condition.
Glacier Girl;

Glacier Girl: The Back Story

How it got trapped in the ice, and how it got out

www.smithsonianmag.com

P-38F Lightning — Lewis Air Legends

lewisairlegends.com

Glacier Girl – Prairie

Glacier Girl | P-38 Assn

p38assn.org

By the time these aircraft were located 50 years after their landing, they were buried under about 264 feet of solid ice. Note that it takes several inches of snow to compact into and inch of ice and you get a gauge of the precipitation happening there during 50 years.

And yes, this is at a time when there is "global warming" and all the ice of Greenland is claimed to be melting.

On top of finding these aircraft under such a deep layer of ICE, is that one was recovered. Meant going down a deep shaft through the ice, having tools lowered, and dismantling the P-38 so it could be hauled up in pieces. Then shipped to the states, put through cleansing and corrosion removal, etc, and then reassembled. Admitted many parts had to be refabricated, especially rubber gaskets, hoses, etc. and other synthetic components. Still, it is essentially the original airframe, engines, and skin, etc. that now flies again.

An additional interesting point is this;
...
The Lockheed design incorporated tricycle undercarriage and a bubble canopy, and featured two 1,000 hp (750 kW) turbosupercharged 12-cylinder Allison V-1710 engines fitted with counter-rotating propellers to eliminate the effect of engine torque,
...

Lockheed P-38 Lightning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Basically the only twin-engined (or multi-engined) aircraft of that time which had props spinning in opposite directions from each other. For that matter, IIRC, only mass production prop plane to ever feature this situation.

 

[Mushroom]

For that matter, IIRC, only mass production prop plane to ever feature this situation.

No, the F-82 had that also. It is actually a common feature on twin engine prop planes, and sometimes even more.

The Airbus A400M is essentially an Airbus version of the C-130. It has 4 engines, and numbers 1 and 3 rotate clockwise, and 2 and 4 rotate counterclockwise.

Dozens of aircraft have had that feature. Originally however it was done by actually building or modifying two different engines so they would spin in opposite directions. After the F-82 they instead used gearboxes that would reverse the rotation in the desired propellers so that all of the engines could be the same. And many others were changed to that kind of configuration after WWII.

One thing that many do not realize is that the original engine the M4 Sherman Tank actually used a Wright R-975 radial engine. And that engine was not only used in tanks, but dozens of aircraft, as in reality the tank was originally designed around that engine. There was a large surplus of that engine at the time, so they built the tank around it. Everything from the Beechcraft Staggerwing and Cessna Chief to the Ford Trimotor and the Vultee Valiant used it. And somebody told me years ago that post-war, so many R-975 engines were available surplus that a lot of people and companies that had twin engine planes were converting them to counter-rotation designs by modifying one of the engines. It did involve more, like changing the controls for the pitch of the propeller, but the engine modifications were the hardest part. So some companies set up for that exact reason.

Commonly done when the engines hit their lifespan before overhaul (normally around 20k hours). Many times the engine itself was not overhauled, but they pulled the engine and dropped another in that had been overhauled. So if you are getting the engines replaced, that would be a modification one would consider having done at the same time. Of course, that was decades ago when R-975 engines new in the crate were available by the thousands for under $1,000 each.

But that is less of an issue on 4 engine planes, as they can counter that by shutting down the same engine on the other side of the plane to counteract the loss of power.

 

[Robert W]

By the time these aircraft were located 50 years after their landing, they were buried under about 264 feet of solid ice. Note that it takes several inches of snow to compact into and inch of ice and you get a gauge of the precipitation happening there during 50 years.

And yes, this is at a time when there is "global warming" and all the ice of Greenland is claimed to be melting.

On top of finding these aircraft under such a deep layer of ICE, is that one was recovered. Meant going down a deep shaft through the ice, having tools lowered, and dismantling the P-38 so it could be hauled up in pieces. Then shipped to the states, put through cleansing and corrosion removal, etc, and then reassembled. Admitted many parts had to be refabricated, especially rubber gaskets, hoses, etc. and other synthetic components. Still, it is essentially the original airframe, engines, and skin, etc. that now flies again.

An additional interesting point is this;
...
The Lockheed design incorporated tricycle undercarriage and a bubble canopy, and featured two 1,000 hp (750 kW) turbosupercharged 12-cylinder Allison V-1710 engines fitted with counter-rotating propellers to eliminate the effect of engine torque,
...

Lockheed P-38 Lightning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Basically the only twin-engined (or multi-engined) aircraft of that time which had props spinning in opposite directions from each other. For that matter, IIRC, only mass production prop plane to ever feature this situation.

My high school Algebra teacher loved telling us his escapades flying the P-38 in WW2.