Hetero-Home ... Nature or Nurture?

[Luddly Neddite]

The Death of David Reimer - Reason.com

On May 4, 2004, David Reimer committed suicide in Winnipeg. Thirty-eight years old, he had been a slaughterhouse worker and an odd-job man. He had also been both a boy and a girl, thanks to one of the darker episodes in the history of pseudoscientific hubris.

Born Bruce Reimer in 1965, David suffered a botched circumcision when he was eight months old. Most of his penis was burned off, and reconstructive surgery was too primitive at the time to restore it. Dr. John Money, a sexologist at Johns Hopkins University, persuaded Reimer's parents to have their son completely castrated and raised as a girl.

This was not simply a matter of trying to make the best of a bad situation. Money had been a leading exponent of the theory that children were born psychosexually neutral and could be assigned to either gender in the first years of their life. He had retreated somewhat from the most radical statement of this thesis, but stood by the central contention that when it came to sexual identity, nurture trumped nature. Bruce—now named Brenda—was an ideal test case. Along with everything else, she was an identical twin; so as an object of study, she came bundled with a built-in control.

...

Brenda Reimer resisted being classified as a girl from the beginning. The first time she wore a dress, she tried to rip it off. She preferred her brother's toys to her own. (A toy sewing machine was untouched, Colapinto writes, "until the day when Brenda, who loved to take things apart to see how they worked, sneaked a screwdriver from her dad's tool kit and dismantled the toy.") She got into fights, insisted on peeing standing up, and ran into terrible problems at school, where the other kids quickly recognized her as someone who didn't fit the ordinary sexual categories. By the time she was 10, she was declaring that she wanted to grow up to marry a woman, not a man.

• Money's meetings with Brenda were a darkly comic study in how a scientist could refuse to see the evidence he didn't want to see, and how a subject can gradually learn to respond to his cues. Worse, his efforts to make her conform to his expectations were coercive and abusive. Her refusal to receive vaginal surgeries—her penis was gone, but her doctors had not yet put a vagina in its place—was met not with an effort to understand her stance but with a series of attempts to manipulate her into agreeing to the procedures. (She succeeded in avoiding the surgery but was compelled to take estrogen pills, though she flushed them when she could.) Also disturbing was Money's belief that Brenda, in Colapinto's words, "must understand at a very early age the differences between male and female sex organs." Not an objectionable idea in itself, except that Money accomplished it by showing Brenda and her brother pictures of adults having sex and by forcing them to disrobe and examine each other's genitals. Worst of all, he allegedly insisted, starting when the twins were six, that they "play at thrusting movements and copulation"—more bluntly, that they pretend to have sex in various positions while he watched. (This last detail has been disputed.)

• Finally, when Brenda Reimer learned the truth about herself, at age 14, she decided to start living her life as a boy. She had her estrogen-created breasts removed, took testosterone injections, changed her name to David, and eventually had surgery to create a penis. In 1990 David married. The allegedly successful transformation of a boy baby into a girl was in fact a complete failure.

Why did David Reimer commit suicide?

Just shy of a month ago, I got a call from David Reimer's father telling me that David had taken his own life. I was shocked, but I cannot say I was surprised. Anyone familiar with David's life—as a baby, after a botched circumcision, he underwent an operation to change him from boy to girl—would have understood that the real mystery was how he managed to stay alive for 38 years, given the physical and mental torments he suffered in childhood and that haunted him the rest of his life. I'd argue that a less courageous person than David would have put an end to things long ago.

After David's suicide, press reports cited an array of reasons for his despair: bad investments, marital problems, his brother's death two years earlier. Surprisingly little emphasis was given to the extraordinary circumstances of his upbringing. This was unfortunate because to understand David's suicide, you first need to know his anguished history, which I chronicled in my book As Nature Made Him:The Boy Who Was Raised As a Girl.
...

Dr. Money And The Boy With No Penis | Watch Documentary Online for Free

==========

Read how this devastated his life and the lives of his twin brother and their parents.

How can we demand that people live out their lives lying to themselves and to others about their sexuality?

Why would we even want to do that?

 

[Katzndogz]

Imagine the futures of children today whose attention seeking parents insist that four year olds and six year olds are "transgendered" and raise them in opposition to their natural biology? Brenda Reimer was described in all ways as being a normal little girl. She wasn't was she? Her parents reported that she liked pretty dresses and played with her dolls. That wasn't true was it? A single article won't give the whole truthful story. Dig deeper look further. Brenda Reimer was the success of nurture over nature until it wasn't a success any more.

In almost all cases of transgendered children the child will develop out of the initial confusion. The sissy boy may never be a jock. That doesn't mean he has to be shoehorned into high heels either.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Imagine the futures of children today whose attention seeking parents insist that four year olds and six year olds are "transgendered" and raise them in opposition to their natural biology? Brenda Reimer was described in all ways as being a normal little girl. She wasn't was she? Her parents reported that she liked pretty dresses and played with her dolls. That wasn't true was it? A single article won't give the whole truthful story. Dig deeper look further. Brenda Reimer was the success of nurture over nature until it wasn't a success any more.

In almost all cases of transgendered children the child will develop out of the initial confusion. The sissy boy may never be a jock. That doesn't mean he has to be shoehorned into high heels either.

Its so much ore than a "single article" and no where was he described as being a "normal little girl".

This is just more evidence that our sexuality is hardwired into us. Hetero or Homo - we're born that way.

 

[Agit8r]

Yeah, obviously mutilating children is unquestionably wrong. Perhaps someday the barbaric nations will come around, and abandon their detestable superstitions.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Come home to Hetero Home.

It's where Heteros live!

 

[Inevitable]

Yeah, obviously mutilating children is unquestionably wrong. Perhaps someday the barbaric nations will come around, and abandon their detestable superstitions.

It's worse than that.
Deaths from Circumcision

117 average deaths a year are caused by circumcision.

Performing plastic surgery on a neonatal child is beyond barbaric.

 

[Agit8r]

Yeah, obviously mutilating children is unquestionably wrong. Perhaps someday the barbaric nations will come around, and abandon their detestable superstitions.

It's worse than that.
Deaths from Circumcision

117 average deaths a year are caused by circumcision.

Performing plastic surgery on a neonatal child is beyond barbaric.

True. Not all primitive people are evil enough to cut babies genitals.

 

[Politico]

Imagine the futures of children today whose attention seeking parents insist that four year olds and six year olds are "transgendered" and raise them in opposition to their natural biology? Brenda Reimer was described in all ways as being a normal little girl. She wasn't was she? Her parents reported that she liked pretty dresses and played with her dolls. That wasn't true was it? A single article won't give the whole truthful story. Dig deeper look further. Brenda Reimer was the success of nurture over nature until it wasn't a success any more.

In almost all cases of transgendered children the child will develop out of the initial confusion. The sissy boy may never be a jock. That doesn't mean he has to be shoehorned into high heels either.

Four and five? I just ran into someone at the store who made that determination for their 6 month old. I was in line and saw this baby dolled up in a pink dress. I said what a beautiful little girl. They said thank you it has been a challenge. I asked how so? They said well he was born a boy. But we noticed he kept grabbing at pink things instead of blue. It was hard but we are respecting his wishes.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Imagine the futures of children today whose attention seeking parents insist that four year olds and six year olds are "transgendered" and raise them in opposition to their natural biology? Brenda Reimer was described in all ways as being a normal little girl. She wasn't was she? Her parents reported that she liked pretty dresses and played with her dolls. That wasn't true was it? A single article won't give the whole truthful story. Dig deeper look further. Brenda Reimer was the success of nurture over nature until it wasn't a success any more.

In almost all cases of transgendered children the child will develop out of the initial confusion. The sissy boy may never be a jock. That doesn't mean he has to be shoehorned into high heels either.

Four and five? I just ran into someone at the store who made that determination for their 6 month old. I was in line and saw this baby dolled up in a pink dress. I said what a beautiful little girl. They said thank you it has been a challenge. I asked how so? They said well he was born a boy. But we noticed he kept grabbing at pink things instead of blue. It was hard but we are respecting his wishes.

Now see, if they had just done it in utero, it would be "a success until it wasn't a success anymore".

 

[Katzndogz]

Imagine the futures of children today whose attention seeking parents insist that four year olds and six year olds are "transgendered" and raise them in opposition to their natural biology? Brenda Reimer was described in all ways as being a normal little girl. She wasn't was she? Her parents reported that she liked pretty dresses and played with her dolls. That wasn't true was it? A single article won't give the whole truthful story. Dig deeper look further. Brenda Reimer was the success of nurture over nature until it wasn't a success any more.

In almost all cases of transgendered children the child will develop out of the initial confusion. The sissy boy may never be a jock. That doesn't mean he has to be shoehorned into high heels either.

Four and five? I just ran into someone at the store who made that determination for their 6 month old. I was in line and saw this baby dolled up in a pink dress. I said what a beautiful little girl. They said thank you it has been a challenge. I asked how so? They said well he was born a boy. But we noticed he kept grabbing at pink things instead of blue. It was hard but we are respecting his wishes.

I wish I could say that was nonsense but I know better. The child will grow up to be another suicide. My stepdaughter tried to do the same thing to her puppy.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

My stepdaughter tried to do the same thing to her puppy.

WHAT??


You can't leave us with just that.

 

[jwoodie]

How do you explain bi-sexuality?

 

[GreenBean]

Imagine the futures of children today whose attention seeking parents insist that four year olds and six year olds are "transgendered" and raise them in opposition to their natural biology? Brenda Reimer was described in all ways as being a normal little girl. She wasn't was she? Her parents reported that she liked pretty dresses and played with her dolls. That wasn't true was it? A single article won't give the whole truthful story. Dig deeper look further. Brenda Reimer was the success of nurture over nature until it wasn't a success any more.

In almost all cases of transgendered children the child will develop out of the initial confusion. The sissy boy may never be a jock. That doesn't mean he has to be shoehorned into high heels either.

Four and five? I just ran into someone at the store who made that determination for their 6 month old. I was in line and saw this baby dolled up in a pink dress. I said what a beautiful little girl. They said thank you it has been a challenge. I asked how so? They said well he was born a boy. But we noticed he kept grabbing at pink things instead of blue. It was hard but we are respecting his wishes.

I wish I could say that was nonsense but I know better. The child will grow up to be another suicide. My stepdaughter tried to do the same thing to her puppy.

Theoretically -Homosexuality is the product of early childhood traumatic experiences. Sexual Orientation , which is not something one is born with develops durring this pre-cognitive stage of our life cycles. Basically , these parents may well be creating a Fag, rather than " respecting his wishes ". My assumption , if the story is not being presented as a literary device only, is that the parents are probably a couple of Liberal simpletons.

 

[Stephanie]

omg
just what I want watch, the boy with no penis

both my boys were circumcised without all this drama

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Imagine the futures of children today whose attention seeking parents insist that four year olds and six year olds are "transgendered" and raise them in opposition to their natural biology? Brenda Reimer was described in all ways as being a normal little girl. She wasn't was she? Her parents reported that she liked pretty dresses and played with her dolls. That wasn't true was it? A single article won't give the whole truthful story. Dig deeper look further. Brenda Reimer was the success of nurture over nature until it wasn't a success any more.

In almost all cases of transgendered children the child will develop out of the initial confusion. The sissy boy may never be a jock. That doesn't mean he has to be shoehorned into high heels either.

Its so much ore than a "single article" and no where was he described as being a "normal little girl".

This is just more evidence that our sexuality is hardwired into us. Hetero or Homo - we're born that way.

My belief is we're asking the wrong questions about the whole thing, and that sexuality and gender don't literally exist but rather are constructs. If we didn't have words to describe male/female, gay/straight I wonder what'd happen.

Though we're just another kind of animal, we're the only one we apply these terms to. No one says such n such animal is questioning its sexuality, or is trans, but where people are ocncerned, because we just love categorizing things we dump all kinds of terms onto one another so we feel different and alienated from each other. When we feel separated from the rest of our community we feel fearful, and fearful people are easy to control and manipulate.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

How do you explain bi-sexuality?

I don't.

But, I suspect its just a part of our hard wiring.

This is a horribly sad and tragic story of what happened to this entire family when the unnatural was forced on them all.

 

[jwoodie]

How do you explain bi-sexuality?

I don't.

But, I suspect its just a part of our hard wiring.

Do you think that differences between sexes are also hard wired?

 

[Agit8r]

omg
just what I want watch, the boy with no penis

both my boys were circumcised without all this drama

Either they were very lucky, or they haven't shared the pain of complications with you. Or perhaps they are not even aware that they could have been otherwise, since it is among our corrupt society's most hush-hush subjects.

 

[Inevitable]

Four and five? I just ran into someone at the store who made that determination for their 6 month old. I was in line and saw this baby dolled up in a pink dress. I said what a beautiful little girl. They said thank you it has been a challenge. I asked how so? They said well he was born a boy. But we noticed he kept grabbing at pink things instead of blue. It was hard but we are respecting his wishes.

I wish I could say that was nonsense but I know better. The child will grow up to be another suicide. My stepdaughter tried to do the same thing to her puppy.

Theoretically

 

[Inevitable]

omg
just what I want watch, the boy with no penis

both my boys were circumcised without all this drama

Why would you perform plastic surgery on a newborn's genitalia? That seems quite bizarre.