Russia Looking to Annex Ukraine. SO WHAT ?

[protectionist]

Some of our finest political and ex-military leaders are saying we should commit money, arms, and possibly even US troops to Ukraine to help keep Russia from taking it over. Has everyone gone nuts ? This sounds more and more like another Vietnam War fiasco in the making.

What does it matter if Russia-Ukraine unity is established ? For one thing, Ukraine has always BEEN part of Russia ever since countries evolved out of tribalism, in medieval days. Besides that, it might be advantageous to Ukraine to get back with Russia. Ukraine alone is very weak militarily, and thus could become a target for Islamist imperialists like ISIS, in the near future. With Russia, this is much less likely, so Ukraine would gain some important national security as part of Russia.

Also, who are we (in the USA) to say a country can't annex what was long part of itself ? We annexed Alaska (which we never possessed). We annexed Hawaii also, by force (which we never possessed). I don't see anybody saying we shouldn't have done that, or talking about giving native Hawaiiens their independence, or likewise to Alaskan Eskimos. Then there's Puerto Rico. When has Putin (or any Russian) ever said we shouldn't possess them (like many of us criticize him) ? Or the US Virgin Islands ?

I'm worried that this Ukraine thing is going to be a drain on US tax $$ at the very least, and a loss of more American kids' lives, in the worst case.

And what about the Ukranian people ? Has anybody asked what they think ? Maybe they'd rather be back with Russia, than be a sitting duck for ISIS or Iran, or whichever other loose wires are on the horizon.

 

[jwoodie]

It was only by an accident of history that Ukraine is not part of Russia. As Mayor of Moscow, Boris Yeltsin led Russia to effectively secede from the USSR, leaving an empty carcass which was quickly abandoned by the other member republics. As a result, Ukraine became an independent country by default, despite its historic and cultural ties with Russia. Its provincial borders happened to include Crimea, the site of Russia's only warm water naval port. Given Ukraine's recent political turbulence and flirtation with NATO countries, it is not surprising that Putin took advantage of the situation and secured this strategic asset. Having stirred up Ukranian unrest as a pretext for this maneuver, he must now figure out how to let go of this tiger's tail without getting bitten.

 

[protectionist]

It was only by an accident of history that Ukraine is not part of Russia. As Mayor of Moscow, Boris Yeltsin led Russia to effectively secede from the USSR, leaving an empty carcass which was quickly abandoned by the other member republics. As a result, Ukraine became an independent country by default, despite its historic and cultural ties with Russia. Its provincial borders happened to include Crimea, the site of Russia's only warm water naval port. Given Ukraine's recent political turbulence and flirtation with NATO countries, it is not surprising that Putin took advantage of the situation and secured this strategic asset. Having stirred up Ukranian unrest as a pretext for this maneuver, he must now figure out how to let go of this tiger's tail without getting bitten.

With Ukranian elections (including Crimea) favoring reunification, Putin has the moral grounds to compel Ukraine to reunify with Russia. Also, to not reunify leaves the Ukranian people at the (lack of ) mercy of ISIS, Iran, and any other conquerers on the block, as opposed to being militarily strong, united with Russia. It would be the proper thing for Russia to force reunification, if necessary, despite Ukranian political leaders wanting to hold on to their national power positions, at the expense of their people, and their whole country.

 

[dilloduck]

It was only by an accident of history that Ukraine is not part of Russia. As Mayor of Moscow, Boris Yeltsin led Russia to effectively secede from the USSR, leaving an empty carcass which was quickly abandoned by the other member republics. As a result, Ukraine became an independent country by default, despite its historic and cultural ties with Russia. Its provincial borders happened to include Crimea, the site of Russia's only warm water naval port. Given Ukraine's recent political turbulence and flirtation with NATO countries, it is not surprising that Putin took advantage of the situation and secured this strategic asset. Having stirred up Ukranian unrest as a pretext for this maneuver, he must now figure out how to let go of this tiger's tail without getting bitten.

Actually the United States stirred up the unrest by supporting the coup in the Ukraine. It's all about pipelines.

 

[protectionist]

It was only by an accident of history that Ukraine is not part of Russia. As Mayor of Moscow, Boris Yeltsin led Russia to effectively secede from the USSR, leaving an empty carcass which was quickly abandoned by the other member republics. As a result, Ukraine became an independent country by default, despite its historic and cultural ties with Russia. Its provincial borders happened to include Crimea, the site of Russia's only warm water naval port. Given Ukraine's recent political turbulence and flirtation with NATO countries, it is not surprising that Putin took advantage of the situation and secured this strategic asset. Having stirred up Ukranian unrest as a pretext for this maneuver, he must now figure out how to let go of this tiger's tail without getting bitten.

Actually the United States stirred up the unrest by supporting the coup in the Ukraine. It's all about pipelines.

The thing for the US to do now is just stay out of it. If Russia and Ukraine reunite, it'll be good for all involved except for Iran , ISIS, and the current Ukranian leadership. They can all go scratch.

 

[Bush92]

We have Monroe Doctrine and Roosevelt Corollary to justify military action in Latin America and Caribbean. We can do nothing in Ukraine.

 

[jwoodie]

We should not delude countries into thinking they can become hostile NATO members on Russia's doorstep without repercussions. Finland is doing quite well without antagonizing its neighbor. I think the unilateral cancellation of ABM bases in Poland was a mistake, but stirring unrest along Russia's borders only tightens Putin's grip over his xenophobic country.

 

[Mad Scientist]

The thing for the US to do now is just stay out of it.

But, but what about the Military Industrial Complex? Don't we need this War to get our Economy going again?

Peace doesn't pay very good wages.

 

[R.C. Christian]

This is foreign policy 1001 bullshit. Anything that makes Russia more powerful degrades the dying United States hegemony.

I don't quite subscribe to that point of view but I understand why some do.

 

[jwoodie]

If the US was in a position of power, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[protectionist]

The thing for the US to do now is just stay out of it.

But, but what about the Military Industrial Complex? Don't we need this War to get our Economy going again?

Peace doesn't pay very good wages.

We have plenty of places where we could be at war, if that's what we wanted. No need to go to a wrong one.

 

[MDiver]

What happens to Ukraine is largely irrelevant, BUT, the bordering nations are a totally different issue.
Poland, Romania, et cetera, are NATO countries. If any one or more of them pledge military assistance (for instance, Poland has a Friendhip Pact with the Ukraine), that by way of our NATO treaty (an attack on one is an attack on all), would necessitate our, as well as europe's military involvement.

 

[protectionist]

What happens to Ukraine is largely irrelevant, BUT, the bordering nations are a totally different issue.
Poland, Romania, et cetera, are NATO countries. If any one or more of them pledge military assistance (for instance, Poland has a Friendhip Pact with the Ukraine), that by way of our NATO treaty (an attack on one is an attack on all), would necessitate our, as well as europe's military involvement.

This is a stretch. I'm not buying it.

 

[Vorskla]

Some of our finest political and ex-military leaders are saying we should commit money, arms, and possibly even US troops to Ukraine to help keep Russia from taking it over. Has everyone gone nuts ? This sounds more and more like another Vietnam War fiasco in the making.

What does it matter if Russia-Ukraine unity is established ? For one thing, Ukraine has always BEEN part of Russia ever since countries evolved out of tribalism, in medieval days. Besides that, it might be advantageous to Ukraine to get back with Russia. Ukraine alone is very weak militarily, and thus could become a target for Islamist imperialists like ISIS, in the near future. With Russia, this is much less likely, so Ukraine would gain some important national security as part of Russia.

Also, who are we (in the USA) to say a country can't annex what was long part of itself ? We annexed Alaska (which we never possessed). We annexed Hawaii also, by force (which we never possessed). I don't see anybody saying we shouldn't have done that, or talking about giving native Hawaiiens their independence, or likewise to Alaskan Eskimos. Then there's Puerto Rico. When has Putin (or any Russian) ever said we shouldn't possess them (like many of us criticize him) ? Or the US Virgin Islands ?

I'm worried that this Ukraine thing is going to be a drain on US tax $$ at the very least, and a loss of more American kids' lives, in the worst case.

And what about the Ukranian people ? Has anybody asked what they think ? Maybe they'd rather be back with Russia, than be a sitting duck for ISIS or Iran, or whichever other loose wires are on the horizon.

The only thing I disagree with is that Ukraine, at this point, is not better of with Russia. There is too much negative propaganda buildup on the Russian side for that to actually be good for Ukrainian citizens.
Overall, Ukraine is in done for, unfortunately, but there is nothing that can be done about that. With Russia/China alliance there isn't anything anyone could do - even if someone wanted to.

I'm Ukrainian, so I care very much about what happens, but I have a reason to care... just saying...

 

[Peach]

Some of our finest political and ex-military leaders are saying we should commit money, arms, and possibly even US troops to Ukraine to help keep Russia from taking it over. Has everyone gone nuts ? This sounds more and more like another Vietnam War fiasco in the making.

What does it matter if Russia-Ukraine unity is established ? For one thing, Ukraine has always BEEN part of Russia ever since countries evolved out of tribalism, in medieval days. Besides that, it might be advantageous to Ukraine to get back with Russia. Ukraine alone is very weak militarily, and thus could become a target for Islamist imperialists like ISIS, in the near future. With Russia, this is much less likely, so Ukraine would gain some important national security as part of Russia.

Also, who are we (in the USA) to say a country can't annex what was long part of itself ? We annexed Alaska (which we never possessed). We annexed Hawaii also, by force (which we never possessed). I don't see anybody saying we shouldn't have done that, or talking about giving native Hawaiiens their independence, or likewise to Alaskan Eskimos. Then there's Puerto Rico. When has Putin (or any Russian) ever said we shouldn't possess them (like many of us criticize him) ? Or the US Virgin Islands ?

I'm worried that this Ukraine thing is going to be a drain on US tax $$ at the very least, and a loss of more American kids' lives, in the worst case.

And what about the Ukranian people ? Has anybody asked what they think ? Maybe they'd rather be back with Russia, than be a sitting duck for ISIS or Iran, or whichever other loose wires are on the horizon.

The only thing I disagree with is that Ukraine, at this point, is not better of with Russia. There is too much negative propaganda buildup on the Russian side for that to actually be good for Ukrainian citizens.
Overall, Ukraine is in done for, unfortunately, but there is nothing that can be done about that. With Russia/China alliance there isn't anything anyone could do - even if someone wanted to.

I'm Ukrainian, so I care very much about what happens, but I have a reason to care... just saying...

Can Ukraine survive with Russia backing the rebels?

 

[Vorskla]

Some of our finest political and ex-military leaders are saying we should commit money, arms, and possibly even US troops to Ukraine to help keep Russia from taking it over. Has everyone gone nuts ? This sounds more and more like another Vietnam War fiasco in the making.

What does it matter if Russia-Ukraine unity is established ? For one thing, Ukraine has always BEEN part of Russia ever since countries evolved out of tribalism, in medieval days. Besides that, it might be advantageous to Ukraine to get back with Russia. Ukraine alone is very weak militarily, and thus could become a target for Islamist imperialists like ISIS, in the near future. With Russia, this is much less likely, so Ukraine would gain some important national security as part of Russia.

Also, who are we (in the USA) to say a country can't annex what was long part of itself ? We annexed Alaska (which we never possessed). We annexed Hawaii also, by force (which we never possessed). I don't see anybody saying we shouldn't have done that, or talking about giving native Hawaiiens their independence, or likewise to Alaskan Eskimos. Then there's Puerto Rico. When has Putin (or any Russian) ever said we shouldn't possess them (like many of us criticize him) ? Or the US Virgin Islands ?

I'm worried that this Ukraine thing is going to be a drain on US tax $$ at the very least, and a loss of more American kids' lives, in the worst case.

And what about the Ukranian people ? Has anybody asked what they think ? Maybe they'd rather be back with Russia, than be a sitting duck for ISIS or Iran, or whichever other loose wires are on the horizon.

The only thing I disagree with is that Ukraine, at this point, is not better of with Russia. There is too much negative propaganda buildup on the Russian side for that to actually be good for Ukrainian citizens.
Overall, Ukraine is in done for, unfortunately, but there is nothing that can be done about that. With Russia/China alliance there isn't anything anyone could do - even if someone wanted to.

I'm Ukrainian, so I care very much about what happens, but I have a reason to care... just saying...

Can Ukraine survive with Russia backing the rebels?

Is there a choice? Joining Russia is not a question anymore, even though in the beginning it was close to 50/50 split. As this goes on there are less and less of native Ukrainians supporting Russia. It's almost a unanimous native Ukrainian "WTF" feeling towards Russia at this point in time.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Some of our finest political and ex-military leaders are saying we should commit money, arms, and possibly even US troops to Ukraine to help keep Russia from taking it over. Has everyone gone nuts ? This sounds more and more like another Vietnam War fiasco in the making.

What does it matter if Russia-Ukraine unity is established ? For one thing, Ukraine has always BEEN part of Russia ever since countries evolved out of tribalism, in medieval days. Besides that, it might be advantageous to Ukraine to get back with Russia. Ukraine alone is very weak militarily, and thus could become a target for Islamist imperialists like ISIS, in the near future. With Russia, this is much less likely, so Ukraine would gain some important national security as part of Russia.

Also, who are we (in the USA) to say a country can't annex what was long part of itself ? We annexed Alaska (which we never possessed). We annexed Hawaii also, by force (which we never possessed). I don't see anybody saying we shouldn't have done that, or talking about giving native Hawaiiens their independence, or likewise to Alaskan Eskimos. Then there's Puerto Rico. When has Putin (or any Russian) ever said we shouldn't possess them (like many of us criticize him) ? Or the US Virgin Islands ?

I'm worried that this Ukraine thing is going to be a drain on US tax $$ at the very least, and a loss of more American kids' lives, in the worst case.

And what about the Ukranian people ? Has anybody asked what they think ? Maybe they'd rather be back with Russia, than be a sitting duck for ISIS or Iran, or whichever other loose wires are on the horizon.

Some need to go look an old map of the USSR and quit acting like Ukraine is Spain or something. Who responded to the Chernobyl nuclear accident? Moscow. Where is Chernobyl? Ukraine - get over it.

 

[Vorskla]

Some of our finest political and ex-military leaders are saying we should commit money, arms, and possibly even US troops to Ukraine to help keep Russia from taking it over. Has everyone gone nuts ? This sounds more and more like another Vietnam War fiasco in the making.

What does it matter if Russia-Ukraine unity is established ? For one thing, Ukraine has always BEEN part of Russia ever since countries evolved out of tribalism, in medieval days. Besides that, it might be advantageous to Ukraine to get back with Russia. Ukraine alone is very weak militarily, and thus could become a target for Islamist imperialists like ISIS, in the near future. With Russia, this is much less likely, so Ukraine would gain some important national security as part of Russia.

Also, who are we (in the USA) to say a country can't annex what was long part of itself ? We annexed Alaska (which we never possessed). We annexed Hawaii also, by force (which we never possessed). I don't see anybody saying we shouldn't have done that, or talking about giving native Hawaiiens their independence, or likewise to Alaskan Eskimos. Then there's Puerto Rico. When has Putin (or any Russian) ever said we shouldn't possess them (like many of us criticize him) ? Or the US Virgin Islands ?

I'm worried that this Ukraine thing is going to be a drain on US tax $$ at the very least, and a loss of more American kids' lives, in the worst case.

And what about the Ukranian people ? Has anybody asked what they think ? Maybe they'd rather be back with Russia, than be a sitting duck for ISIS or Iran, or whichever other loose wires are on the horizon.

Some need to go look an old map of the USSR and quit acting like Ukraine is Spain or something. Who responded to the Chernobyl nuclear accident? Moscow. Where is Chernobyl? Ukraine - get over it.

The problem is that Ukrainians will become second rate citizens in Russia *if* Putin takes over Ukraine. The way he has been building up anti-Ukrainian propaganda within Russia is not a good contribution to Ukraine/Russia people relationship.

Same situation as "Mexico should just suck it up and become part of US already - they are kind of close to each other and their cultures mix *cough*Arizona*cough*" - except minus the murderous propaganda from ether side, annexed territories, shot down planes, run-away presidents, military forces on borders, and military agreements with China, etc...

 

[dilloduck]

Some of our finest political and ex-military leaders are saying we should commit money, arms, and possibly even US troops to Ukraine to help keep Russia from taking it over. Has everyone gone nuts ? This sounds more and more like another Vietnam War fiasco in the making.

What does it matter if Russia-Ukraine unity is established ? For one thing, Ukraine has always BEEN part of Russia ever since countries evolved out of tribalism, in medieval days. Besides that, it might be advantageous to Ukraine to get back with Russia. Ukraine alone is very weak militarily, and thus could become a target for Islamist imperialists like ISIS, in the near future. With Russia, this is much less likely, so Ukraine would gain some important national security as part of Russia.

Also, who are we (in the USA) to say a country can't annex what was long part of itself ? We annexed Alaska (which we never possessed). We annexed Hawaii also, by force (which we never possessed). I don't see anybody saying we shouldn't have done that, or talking about giving native Hawaiiens their independence, or likewise to Alaskan Eskimos. Then there's Puerto Rico. When has Putin (or any Russian) ever said we shouldn't possess them (like many of us criticize him) ? Or the US Virgin Islands ?

I'm worried that this Ukraine thing is going to be a drain on US tax $$ at the very least, and a loss of more American kids' lives, in the worst case.

And what about the Ukranian people ? Has anybody asked what they think ? Maybe they'd rather be back with Russia, than be a sitting duck for ISIS or Iran, or whichever other loose wires are on the horizon.

Some need to go look an old map of the USSR and quit acting like Ukraine is Spain or something. Who responded to the Chernobyl nuclear accident? Moscow. Where is Chernobyl? Ukraine - get over it.

The problem is that Ukrainians will become second rate citizens in Russia *if* Putin takes over Ukraine. The way he has been building up anti-Ukrainian propaganda within Russia is not a good contribution to Ukraine/Russia people relationship.

Same situation as "Mexico should just suck it up and become part of US already - they are kind of close to each other and their cultures mix *cough*Arizona*cough*" - except minus the murderous propaganda from ether side, annexed territories, shot down planes, run-away presidents, military forces on borders, and military agreements with China, etc...

Let the East have it's independence and be done with it.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Some of our finest political and ex-military leaders are saying we should commit money, arms, and possibly even US troops to Ukraine to help keep Russia from taking it over. Has everyone gone nuts ? This sounds more and more like another Vietnam War fiasco in the making.

What does it matter if Russia-Ukraine unity is established ? For one thing, Ukraine has always BEEN part of Russia ever since countries evolved out of tribalism, in medieval days. Besides that, it might be advantageous to Ukraine to get back with Russia. Ukraine alone is very weak militarily, and thus could become a target for Islamist imperialists like ISIS, in the near future. With Russia, this is much less likely, so Ukraine would gain some important national security as part of Russia.

Also, who are we (in the USA) to say a country can't annex what was long part of itself ? We annexed Alaska (which we never possessed). We annexed Hawaii also, by force (which we never possessed). I don't see anybody saying we shouldn't have done that, or talking about giving native Hawaiiens their independence, or likewise to Alaskan Eskimos. Then there's Puerto Rico. When has Putin (or any Russian) ever said we shouldn't possess them (like many of us criticize him) ? Or the US Virgin Islands ?

I'm worried that this Ukraine thing is going to be a drain on US tax $$ at the very least, and a loss of more American kids' lives, in the worst case.

And what about the Ukranian people ? Has anybody asked what they think ? Maybe they'd rather be back with Russia, than be a sitting duck for ISIS or Iran, or whichever other loose wires are on the horizon.

Some need to go look an old map of the USSR and quit acting like Ukraine is Spain or something. Who responded to the Chernobyl nuclear accident? Moscow. Where is Chernobyl? Ukraine - get over it.

The problem is that Ukrainians will become second rate citizens in Russia *if* Putin takes over Ukraine. The way he has been building up anti-Ukrainian propaganda within Russia is not a good contribution to Ukraine/Russia people relationship.

Same situation as "Mexico should just suck it up and become part of US already - they are kind of close to each other and their cultures mix *cough*Arizona*cough*" - except minus the murderous propaganda from ether side, annexed territories, shot down planes, run-away presidents, military forces on borders, and military agreements with China, etc...

Minor difference being Mexico didn't become Mexico by being part of the US (reverse is true actually.) But Ukraine did become Ukraine by being part of Russia.