Henry Ford, antisemitism, and the American Right

[Madeline]

What a shame, an interesting convo about history shot to hell by a tool.

I told you. Jillian has nothing to contribute.

Anti-semitism was alive and well into the 1960s. There were plenty of hotels, apartments, etc etc that would not take Jews.
But Ford, Father Coughlin and others really have little to do with today's conservatives, who owe more to the old Democratic Party.

Now, see, that could be interesting to know more about, The Rabbi. I have a desire to learn....please expand on anti-semetism and the refusal of lodging in the 1960's.

I knew about quotas on college admissions and bars at country clubs, but not this.

 

[jillian]

What a shame, an interesting convo about history shot to hell by a tool.

I told you. Jillian has nothing to contribute.

and yet, look at my rep. look at yours.

apparently, you aren't agreed with.

putz.

 

[kaz]

I'm still trying to figure out how the democrat party pushed their racism from the party's mainstream to the lunatic racist fringe. Al Gore's father, senator Al Gore was a segregationist. Democrat senator Harry Byrd who died last year was some sort of grand kleagle in the KKK and used the "N" word in public during his entire career.

And Joe Kennedy was a Nazi sympathizer. It's the Right who support Israel and Democrats who advocate policies that would bring about their destruction. antisemitism is talked about on the Left, it's practiced on the Right

 

[Madeline]

I'm still trying to figure out how the democrat party pushed their racism from the party's mainstream to the lunatic racist fringe. Al Gore's father, senator Al Gore was a segregationist. Democrat senator Harry Byrd who died last year was some sort of grand kleagle in the KKK and used the "N" word in public during his entire career.

And Joe Kennedy was a Nazi sympathizer. It's the Right who support Israel and Democrats who advocate policies that would bring about their destruction. antisemitism is talked about on the Left, it's practiced on the Right

Link or STFU.

Anyone notice how many conservatives on this thread are flinging poo and not backing it up?

 

[Dr Grump]

Like Birchers and skinheads are representative of the conservative movement i this country.
You really are a piece of work, "councillor." I'd suggest getting in touch with your heritage (assuming you are even Jewish, which I doubt), getting your head out of your anal orifice, and looking around.

they are as representative of the conservative movement as the far left is of the democrats. careful who you get into bed with... they hate you more than they hate blacks and latinos and muslims, pretend rabbi.

it would be nice if you were half as smart as you think you are. then we wouldn't all be laughing at you. *shrug*

and one of the great things about being me... is i'm not you.

now go ahead and show what a classless pretend jew you are and tell me again, in yiddish, to "blow [you]", loser.

How long did it take you to Google the reference, "counselor"?
You are a shonda of gross proportions. You contribute nothing here but lies, stupidity, ignorance and invective. You have a paper thin skin that makes you neg rep anyone who dares to disagree with your insipid point of view.

The Left's anti-semitism is proven and documented. Trying to associate the KKK etc with modern Conservatism is a failure. Like you.

The irony in all this is that the true-blue racist conservatives like William Joyce and Tank blame 'liberal' Jews for everything that is wrong with America.

You guys really need to sit down and get your stories straight...

 

[Sunni Man]

The irony in all this is that the true-blue racist conservatives like William Joyce and Tank blame 'liberal' Jews for everything that is wrong with America.

No, I think they blame any Jew; right or left.

 

[Dr Grump]

The irony in all this is that the true-blue racist conservatives like William Joyce and Tank blame 'liberal' Jews for everything that is wrong with America.

No, I think they blame any Jew; right or left.

Yeah, but William and Tank are uber right wingers...and I've seen them spew invective claptrap at liberal Jews. Never seen them have a go at David Horowitz or Jonah Goldberg, or his slapper mother Lucianne...

 

[Madeline]

Aren't the Koch brothers Jewish?

 

[William Joyce]

Never seen them have a go at David Horowitz or Jonah Goldberg, or his slapper mother Lucianne...

Aha! You've missed some threads. A point I try to make is that Jews generally -- though not exclusively -- seek to advance Jewish interests no matter where they claim to be on the political spectrum.

That was the whole POINT of "neoconservatism": Jewish ex-Trotskyites who saw that the American left was not behind Israel. So, they snuck over to the "right" and started usurping traditional right-wing support of all things military for Israel's benefit. And HOW. But note well -- they never cared about social issues that were the preserve of actual conservatives. Really, they didn't care a whit about conservatism, just Israel -- they were willing to cook up a few nifty free-market type arguments to "pass." Jonah Goldberg, Jon Podhoretz, the Kristols (son and father), David Brooks, David Horowitz... there are a TON of these guys out there (though I've always had a soft spot for Horowitz since he was responsible for turning me on to anti-left thought in college).

Liberalism is useful to Jews because they see it as protecting them as a people and weakening Enemy No. 1 -- white gentile Christian conservatives. Lighten their wallets for blacks, bring in boatloads of Hispanics, rip up their families with divorce, confuse them with homosexuality, thumb their nose at life with abortion... you know.

Conservatism is useful to Jews because it helps the cause of Israel.

It isn't really a "conspiracy theory" to recognize all this -- it's a theory that's pretty well supported by current events and facts on the ground. As Joseph Sobran once said, "to understand Washington, you must understand who the Jews are and what they want, but never speak of them publicly."

 

[William Joyce]

I'm hoping we can discuss this dispassionately.

Does anyone know when and why the Right pushed antisemitism from the party's mainstream into the neo-nazi fringe?

Save Pat Buchanan, who is sympathetic to the Holocaust Denial movement, one can no longer find vocal antisemitism on the Right.

The old American Right was filled with a small, but very vocal coalition of people who did not trust Jews or Israel. I'm talking about the days when Jews were not allowed into country clubs. I'm talking about the days of Henry Ford.

Why are so many on the Right now afraid to be openly antisemitic and openly anti-Israel? This is not a rhetorical question or snarky potshot designed to call people on the Right closet antisemites -- I realize that the majority of people on the Right today are not antisemitic.

Can anyone explain how and why the party evolved away from antisemitism?

I'm trying to figure out if Cold War anti-Communism -- which invested heavily in Israel as a geopolitical asset -- was the reason for the shift. That is, once the party needed Israel to fulfill its visionary globalism (where Washington emerged as the chief facilitator and benefactor of the global market system), it was forced to keep antisemitism alive only on the margins, where it could still be used to agitate the base, e.g., Nixon's Liberal Jewish Media. [Of course, the true rightwing antisemite will tell you that Washington is Israel's puppet, not the other way around. They think the world is secretly run by a conspiracy of soulless Jewish bankers (-this is exactly what the Medieval Church and then Hitler said). Interestingly, you will not see the mainstream right denounce this conspiracy because it is candy for their uneducated base, who, in exchange for their electoral support, are given a political outlet for hating gays, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, blacks, etc., etc.]

**I'm assuming people here are familiar with European antisemitism, and the way Jews were seen as Christ killers who were a plague on Christian culture. The Medieval church was ferociously anti-Jewish. Jews were literally constructed as agents of the devil because they rejected Jesus' revelation. Antisemitism in Europe calcified into a commonsense banality that affected generations of Christians. Christians in America were not immune to this.

1. Good luck with any "dispassionate" discussions of Jews. There are none. Mostly because Jews forbid it. You either swear total fealty to Jews, or you're 100 percent against them -- a bloodthirsty Nazi. They accept no criticisms of themselves as a group, however fair or fact-based. If you can find an example of them doing so, let me know. I'd love to hear it.

2. The right became philo-semitic because Jews took it over. You're mistaken in thinking that America ever "needed" Israel -- as you note, befriending it was not in our oil-getting interests, or any other interest, really. And no true conservative ever had a "global vision" -- that's the stuff of liberals. True conservatives are "little Englanders", if you will -- keep a strong and independent nation and let other countries do as they wish, so long as they don't attack us. A republic, not an empire, as the saying goes.

3. The tone of your post indicates that you do not accept any notion of Jews as hostile to, or bad for, a nation. So you're obviously not going to look at that angle in any analysis of the right and how it's changed over the years, unless I'm mistaken. You also don't really seem to care about the right or conservatism -- the "uneducated base"? Right, yes. Not all conservatives are versed in the finer things, true -- they are more instinctual. Which certainly doesn't mean they're wrong: often, the ancient wisdom is truer than liberal notions, most of which have proven quite harmful to the health of the people and a nation. Traditionally, peoples of old Europe -- and to a lesser extent, America until the 1950s -- properly conceived that Jews were bad news. How have we fared since then, i.e., since we all became philo-Semites? America's been slowly sliding into a shit fondue of multiculturalism, open borders, declining wages, destroyed families and false values -- and yes, much of that can indeed be traced to Jewish influence. Jews are nation-wreckers. That's because they see all Western nations as potential Nazi regimes (and perhaps they're right?)... but they know damn well that THEY as a people will ALWAYS survive because they keep it genetically close. When America falls, they'll scurry off to some new place. This isn't to be overly nasty about the business, just cool-headed. Jews can be funny, smart, principled and the rest, but at the end of the day, they just aren't truly our FRIENDS. We need to keep that in mind.

 

[Madeline]

I need eye bleach now.

 

[dilloduck]

What a shame, an interesting convo about history shot to hell by a tool.

I told you. Jillian has nothing to contribute.

and yet, look at my rep. look at yours.

apparently, you aren't agreed with.

putz.

Someone STILL thinks rep is a sign of intelligence.

 

[Madeline]

I told you. Jillian has nothing to contribute.

and yet, look at my rep. look at yours.

apparently, you aren't agreed with.

putz.

Someone STILL thinks rep is a sign of intelligence.

Jillian only said rep shows people agreed with her, dilloduck.....and it does. And I do.

 

[dilloduck]

and yet, look at my rep. look at yours.

apparently, you aren't agreed with.

putz.

Someone STILL thinks rep is a sign of intelligence.

Jillian only said rep shows people agreed with her, dilloduck.....and it does. And I do.

Continue to live with that illusion. It will get you far.

 

[William Joyce]

I need eye bleach now.

I get that it's rough shit, Madeline. Most people -- including yours truly -- have been conditioned to leap to Jews' defense, and to be *horrified* by "anti-Semitism." But just keep your eyes open and watch current events. See if what I'm saying is borne out, or shown to be false. If what I say about Jews is proven false, then you can dismiss what's said.

Otherwise, it's something to consider. Think about your reaction to my post... to debate me? Point out an error of fact? No, your reaction was practically PHYSICAL... "I need eye bleach." Lots of people say stuff like that. "You're making me sick..." Yeah? Or am I getting deep down to what's real and seriously challenging long-held assumptions?

Doesn't it strike you as a little weird that Jews get to have their own racial-nationalist project, Israel, while denouncing anyone else's attempt at the same? That a jillian would defend Israel but kvetch about "white nationalism"? That Jewish rabbis could preach Jewish marriage to other Jews, while promoting inter-racial marriage for whites? That the Jewish members of Congress all support ISRAEL's right to secure borders, but not AMERICA's?

 

[William Joyce]

And no response... white man wins by default. Sheesh, if only more of us would show up to the appointed spot after school.

 

[Madeline]

And no response... white man wins by default. Sheesh, if only more of us would show up to the appointed spot after school.

William Joyce, the shame of it is, you are educated, articulate...prolly not even all that evil-hearted. I just cannot understand how it is someone like you ends up trying to justify an irrational hatred of Jews, blacks, Mexicans, etc.

What you say of Jews may well be true of SOME Jews. These are individuals, and they dun always cooperate or even agree. The flaw in your argument is, you assume some monolithic conspiracy that is JUST NOT THERE.

Ask someone who has been to Israel, WJ. The religious fight -- and I do mean "fight" -- with the secular. The Orthodox fight with the Reform. The Askenazi fight with the Serphadic. Jews are humans and dun get along any better than any other group of humans.

The most important factoid to notice about any of your fellow man, WJ, is always their humanity.

Several centuries ago, the Pope decreed that all the Jews had to convert to Catholicism or leave Italy. There was a huge outcry from the Jewish community, so the Pope offered a deal. He'd have a religious debate with the leader of the Jewish community. If the Jews won, they could stay in Italy; if the Pope won, they'd have to convert or leave.

The Jewish people met and picked an aged and wise rabbi to represent them in the debate. However, as the rabbi spoke no Italian, and the Pope spoke no Yiddish, they agreed that it would be a 'silent' debate. On the chosen day the Pope and rabbi sat opposite each other.
The Pope raised his hand and showed three fingers. The rabbi looked back and raised one finger.

Next, the Pope waved his finger around his head. The rabbi pointed to the ground where he sat.

The Pope brought out a communion wafer and a chalice of wine. The rabbi pulled out an apple.

With that, the Pope stood up and declared himself beaten and said that the rabbi was too clever. The Jews could stay in Italy.

Later the cardinals met with the Pope and asked him what had happened. The Pope said, 'First I held up three fingers to represent the Trinity. He responded by holding up a single finger to remind me there is still only one God common to both our beliefs Then, I waved my finger around my head to show him that God was all around us. He responded by pointing to the ground to show that God was also right here with us. 'I pulled out the wine and water to show that God absolves us of all our sins. He pulled out an apple to remind me of the original sin. He bested me at every move and I could not continue.'


Meanwhile, the Jewish community gathered to ask the rabbi how he'd won. 'I haven't a clue' the rabbi said. 'First, he told me that we had three days to get out of Italy, so I gave him the finger. Then he tells me that the whole country would be cleared of Jews and I told him that we were staying right here.'

 

[Sunni Man]

And no response... white man wins by default. Sheesh, if only more of us would show up to the appointed spot after school.

Americans for 60+ years have been spoon feed the zionist Jew's version of history.

It starts in middle school with the mandatory reading of the fictional novel titled, "Anne Frank".

That culminates in high school with history books detailing the so called Holocaust.

And extolling the myth of modern Israel's phoenix like resurrection from the dust of antiquity.

 

[Madeline]

And no response... white man wins by default. Sheesh, if only more of us would show up to the appointed spot after school.

Americans for 60+ years have been spoon feed the zionist Jew's version of history.

It starts in middle school with the mandatory reading of the fictional novel titled, "Anne Frank".

That culminates in high school with history books detailing the so called Holocaust.

And extolling the myth of modern Israel's phoenix like resurrection from the dust of antiquity.

The "so-called Holocaust"? Are you on drugs, Sunni Man? Why not ask someone who has been to one what a death camp looks like? Ask someone like me, who has met survivors and seen the tattoos, what those people are like?

I don't get you. You want and need tolerance and respect for American Muslims and then you turn on those of us most inclined to offer it by denying the Holocaust? Are you that self-destructive? HTF can you write such evil shit?

I'm not willing to be tolerant of this crap. Knock off the Anti-Semitism or you and I are no longer friends.

 

[William Joyce]

Madeline:

Jews do disagree with each other, but in achieving their goals otherwise, they have been quite successful. When I was in Israel, I didn't notice too much disagreement about the existence of the country itself. Ashkenazi v. Sephardic is just not a spat that's going to cause the settlements to fold up and go home, for instance. Personally, Israel doesn't strike me as the nuttiest notion of all time -- I've said as much before. If you could crystallize everything I'm about on this message board, Madeline, it's that I want for white gentiles what Jews have: a strong identity, unity, a nation with defined borders that is willing to defend itself.