Henry Ford, antisemitism, and the American Right

[DiveCon]

Says you, Divey.

says anyone that isnt irrational about her

Meh, if you wanna debate this again, start a Palin thread. I'm game.

i've seen enough of your palin threads to know you are not rational about her

 

[Sunni Man]

Charles Lindbergh was also a great admirer of the Nazi's and was also anti-semitic.

"On Lindbergh’s last day in Germany, Lindbergh and his wife attended the opening ceremonies of the 1936 Summer Olympics in Berlin as special guests of Hermann Göring and were seated in a special spectator box with Göring and his wife. Truman Smith later claimed that Lindbergh’s special relationship with Göring was a milestone for the American military attaché in Berlin because it gave the Americans access to German Air Ministry they never had before."

"Lindbergh’s next trip to Germany in October 1938 proved to be the most controversial trip. After a day of touring factories in Magdeburg and Dessau, Lindbergh along with the American Ambassador Hugh Wilson attended an official state dinner with Hermann Göring and a number of other Nazi officials. At the dinner on 18 October, Lindbergh and the members of the American embassy were surprised when Göring arrived with a small red leather box in hand. In the box was the Verdienstkreuz Deutscher Adler, or Service Cross of the German Eagle, and it was presented to Lindbergh “by order of the Führer”.

"During the trip across the Atlantic by ship Lindbergh wrote in his diary an entry that now sheds some light onto his views on Jews, which he was careful not to share in public. His diary entry on 10 April 1939 reads “a few Jews add strength and character to our country, but too many create chaos. And we are getting too many. This present immigration will have a reaction”. Not until his 1941 speech in Des Moines/Iowa did Lindbergh utter such words publicly."

In that speech he made on 11 September 1941, titled; “Who Are the Agitators?” Lindbergh publicly addressed for the first time the Jewish issue and shared some of his opinions:

"Their greatest danger lies in [the Jews’] large ownership and influence in our motion pictures, our press, our radio, and our Government. We cannot blame them for looking out for what they believe to be their interests, but we also must look out for ours".


Charles Lindbergh

 

[Madeline]

Yes, he is, Sunni Man. These men we have been discussing are all good examples of how us Americans like our history whitewashed.

 

[Sunni Man]

Yes, he is, Sunni Man. These men we have been discussing are all good examples of how us Americans like our history whitewashed.

You are absolutely correct as usual Madeline.

 

[DiveCon]

Yes, he is, Sunni Man. These men we have been discussing are all good examples of how us Americans like our history whitewashed.

is it wrong to admire someone for the good they did or do we have to trash them because they did someone bad?

 

[whitehall]

Why bring up alleged anti-semitism on the right with forty or fifty year old cherry picked statements? Is it a desperate effort to camouflage the support for the muslem brotherhood by the UN and the Obama administration? Look at former president Jimmy Carter's rantings and you get a feel for the modern left's anti-semitism.

 

[Madeline]

Why bring up alleged anti-semitism on the right with forty or fifty year old cherry picked statements? Is it a desperate effort to camouflage the support for the muslem brotherhood by the UN and the Obama administration? Look at former president Jimmy Carter's rantings and you get a feel for the modern left's anti-semitism.

Whitehall, I did not write the OP. Ask Londoner. I posted to this thread because I like history, and the subject interested me.

If you perceive some nefarious attempt to gild the 2011 lily with 90 year old facts, I think mebbe that's on you.

 

[Sunni Man]

Yes, he is, Sunni Man. These men we have been discussing are all good examples of how us Americans like our history whitewashed.

is it wrong to admire someone for the good they did or do we have to trash them because they did someone bad?

So true Dive Con;

Hitler did many wonderful things for the German people and revitalised the German economy..

But people only seem to remember his WWII misunderstandings with other countries.

 

[DiveCon]

Yes, he is, Sunni Man. These men we have been discussing are all good examples of how us Americans like our history whitewashed.

is it wrong to admire someone for the good they did or do we have to trash them because they did someone bad?

So true Dive Con;

Hitler did many wonderful things for the German people and revitalised the German economy..

But people only seem to remember his WWII misunderstandings with other countries.

very poor example, and you know it
whatever good Hitler might have done is FAR outweighed by the bad

 

[Madeline]

I dunno if it is wrong to admire a flawed person, Divey. None of us are children and whether we admire Henry Ford or not likely will not alter our behavior. In general, I prefer the truth about the past to be unvarnished.

Some people need to make saints of their heros, forgetting that all men have foibles. It has taken me aback at times to learn of something a public figure did that seemed beneath the good intentions I assumed they had.

 

[Charles_Main]

I'm hoping we can discuss this dispassionately.

Does anyone know when and why the Right pushed antisemitism from the party's mainstream into the neo-nazi fringe?

Save Pat Buchanan, who is sympathetic to the Holocaust Denial movement, one can no longer find vocal antisemitism on the Right.

The old American Right was filled with a small, but very vocal coalition of people who did not trust Jews or Israel. I'm talking about the days when Jews were not allowed into country clubs. I'm talking about the days of Henry Ford.

Why are so many on the Right now afraid to be openly antisemitic and openly anti-Israel? This is not a rhetorical question or snarky potshot designed to call people on the Right closet antisemites -- I realize that the majority of people on the Right today are not antisemitic.

Can anyone explain how and why the party evolved away from antisemitism?

I'm trying to figure out if Cold War anti-Communism -- which invested heavily in Israel as a geopolitical asset -- was the reason for the shift. That is, once the party needed Israel to fulfill its visionary globalism (where Washington emerged as the chief facilitator and benefactor of the global market system), it was forced to keep antisemitism alive only on the margins, where it could still be used to agitate the base, e.g., Nixon's Liberal Jewish Media. [Of course, the true rightwing antisemite will tell you that Washington is Israel's puppet, not the other way around. They think the world is secretly run by a conspiracy of soulless Jewish bankers (-this is exactly what the Medieval Church and then Hitler said). Interestingly, you will not see the mainstream right denounce this conspiracy because it is candy for their uneducated base, who, in exchange for their electoral support, are given a political outlet for hating gays, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, blacks, etc., etc.]

**I'm assuming people here are familiar with European antisemitism, and the way Jews were seen as Christ killers who were a plague on Christian culture. The Medieval church was ferociously anti-Jewish. Jews were literally constructed as agents of the devil because they rejected Jesus' revelation. Antisemitism in Europe calcified into a commonsense banality that affected generations of Christians. Christians in America were not immune to this.

I hope you are not under the delusion that Antisemitism is something exclusive to the Far right. It runs just as deep on the far left as it does on the right.

 

[Madeline]

Charles Main wrote:

I hope you are not under the delusion that Antisemitism is something exclusive to the Far right. It runs just as deep on the far left as it does on the right.

Are you speaking of today, Charles? Where do you see anti-semitism in the left now?

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Today's American & European Leftists are far more Anti Semitic/Anti-Israel than today's Right Wing/Conservatives are. Most Conservatives/Right Wingers are actually staunch supporters of Israel. This cannot be said for most of today's American & European Leftists. Most of the hate i observe being expressed towards Jews/Israelis comes from wild-eyed Lefty nutters. Hey just my observations though.

 

[rdean]

I'm hoping we can discuss this dispassionately.

Does anyone know when and why the Right pushed antisemitism from the party's mainstream into the neo-nazi fringe?

Save Pat Buchanan, who is sympathetic to the Holocaust Denial movement, one can no longer find vocal antisemitism on the Right.

The old American Right was filled with a small, but very vocal coalition of people who did not trust Jews or Israel. I'm talking about the days when Jews were not allowed into country clubs. I'm talking about the days of Henry Ford.

Why are so many on the Right now afraid to be openly antisemitic and openly anti-Israel? This is not a rhetorical question or snarky potshot designed to call people on the Right closet antisemites -- I realize that the majority of people on the Right today are not antisemitic.

Can anyone explain how and why the party evolved away from antisemitism?

I'm trying to figure out if Cold War anti-Communism -- which invested heavily in Israel as a geopolitical asset -- was the reason for the shift. That is, once the party needed Israel to fulfill its visionary globalism (where Washington emerged as the chief facilitator and benefactor of the global market system), it was forced to keep antisemitism alive only on the margins, where it could still be used to agitate the base, e.g., Nixon's Liberal Jewish Media. [Of course, the true rightwing antisemite will tell you that Washington is Israel's puppet, not the other way around. They think the world is secretly run by a conspiracy of soulless Jewish bankers (-this is exactly what the Medieval Church and then Hitler said). Interestingly, you will not see the mainstream right denounce this conspiracy because it is candy for their uneducated base, who, in exchange for their electoral support, are given a political outlet for hating gays, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, blacks, etc., etc.]

**I'm assuming people here are familiar with European antisemitism, and the way Jews were seen as Christ killers who were a plague on Christian culture. The Medieval church was ferociously anti-Jewish. Jews were literally constructed as agents of the devil because they rejected Jesus' revelation. Antisemitism in Europe calcified into a commonsense banality that affected generations of Christians. Christians in America were not immune to this.

Because they moved on to the blacks, the gays, the Muslims, the Hispanics, the feminists, the educated and the atheists. So many new faces to hate.

They were told the Jews are all about money and so they decided Jews are indeed, "the chosen race".

 

[rdean]

Charles Main wrote:

I hope you are not under the delusion that Antisemitism is something exclusive to the Far right. It runs just as deep on the far left as it does on the right.

Are you speaking of today, Charles? Where do you see anti-semitism in the left now?

It's there. The Democratic Party is inclusive. That means that along with the liberals and all the other groups, you will also have racists and uneducated, those that dismiss science and even conservatives. It's why it's a coalition party. The good comes with the bad.

Unlike the Republicans. 90% white, mostly Christian. They hate nearly everyone equally.

 

[DiveCon]

Charles Main wrote:

I hope you are not under the delusion that Antisemitism is something exclusive to the Far right. It runs just as deep on the far left as it does on the right.

Are you speaking of today, Charles? Where do you see anti-semitism in the left now?

It's there. The Democratic Party is inclusive. That means that along with the liberals and all the other groups, you will also have racists and uneducated, those that dismiss science and even conservatives. It's why it's a coalition party. The good comes with the bad.

Unlike the Republicans. 90% white, mostly Christian. They hate nearly everyone equally.

more proof you are the fucking moron i call you

 

[jillian]

I'm still trying to figure out how the democrat party pushed their racism from the party's mainstream to the lunatic racist fringe. Al Gore's father, senator Al Gore was a segregationist. Democrat senator Harry Byrd who died last year was some sort of grand kleagle in the KKK and used the "N" word in public during his entire career.

Check your premise....It's still a part of the mainstream.

Check in on their attitudes toward people like Clarence Thomas and J.C. Watts to get your reality check.

no. that isn't racism.

though i've neer undestood how someone like thomas who took advantage of every possible benefit of racial politics has the nerve to complain about those benefits going to others, immoral hypocrite that he is.

but i know the rightwingnuts like saying that. just like they pretend that saying that palin knows nothing about nothing is somehow anti-women.

 

[jillian]

Today's American & European Leftists are far more Anti Semitic/Anti-Israel than today's Right Wing/Conservatives are. Most Conservatives/Right Wingers are actually staunch supporters of Israel. This cannot be said for most of today's American & European Leftists. Most of the hate i observe being expressed towards Jews/Israelis comes from wild-eyed Lefty nutters. Hey just my observations though.

no they aren't. BOTH extremes are anti-semitic. yet another reason extremists are dangerous.

those aren't your "obervations", they're your wishful thinking because you despise anything that isn't to the right of atilla the hun.

 

[jillian]

I'm hoping we can discuss this dispassionately.

Does anyone know when and why the Right pushed antisemitism from the party's mainstream into the neo-nazi fringe?

Save Pat Buchanan, who is sympathetic to the Holocaust Denial movement, one can no longer find vocal antisemitism on the Right.

The old American Right was filled with a small, but very vocal coalition of people who did not trust Jews or Israel. I'm talking about the days when Jews were not allowed into country clubs. I'm talking about the days of Henry Ford.

Why are so many on the Right now afraid to be openly antisemitic and openly anti-Israel? This is not a rhetorical question or snarky potshot designed to call people on the Right closet antisemites -- I realize that the majority of people on the Right today are not antisemitic.

Can anyone explain how and why the party evolved away from antisemitism?

I'm trying to figure out if Cold War anti-Communism -- which invested heavily in Israel as a geopolitical asset -- was the reason for the shift. That is, once the party needed Israel to fulfill its visionary globalism (where Washington emerged as the chief facilitator and benefactor of the global market system), it was forced to keep antisemitism alive only on the margins, where it could still be used to agitate the base, e.g., Nixon's Liberal Jewish Media. [Of course, the true rightwing antisemite will tell you that Washington is Israel's puppet, not the other way around. They think the world is secretly run by a conspiracy of soulless Jewish bankers (-this is exactly what the Medieval Church and then Hitler said). Interestingly, you will not see the mainstream right denounce this conspiracy because it is candy for their uneducated base, who, in exchange for their electoral support, are given a political outlet for hating gays, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, blacks, etc., etc.]

**I'm assuming people here are familiar with European antisemitism, and the way Jews were seen as Christ killers who were a plague on Christian culture. The Medieval church was ferociously anti-Jewish. Jews were literally constructed as agents of the devil because they rejected Jesus' revelation. Antisemitism in Europe calcified into a commonsense banality that affected generations of Christians. Christians in America were not immune to this.

see, i'm kind of curious why you raise this issue other than as a forum to bait the anti-israel/racist crowd and start the usual yes you are/no you aren't type of discussion.

 

[Political Junky]

I'm still trying to figure out how the democrat party pushed their racism from the party's mainstream to the lunatic racist fringe. Al Gore's father, senator Al Gore was a segregationist. Democrat senator Harry Byrd who died last year was some sort of grand kleagle in the KKK and used the "N" word in public during his entire career.

Who was Harry Byrd