Healthcare Spending and Life Expectancy

[antagon]

the good 'ol american throw money at it method pushes up consumption, and by extension prices, then casts a shadow on rational behavior like, say, good diet and plenty of exercise.

 

[alan1]

Denmark - Obesity rate 9.5%
United Sates - Obesity rate 30.6%

Do ya think that might matter?

Of course it matters. But does it matter to the tune of a trillion dollars?

I don't think so.

As you pointed out, the population difference is pretty significant.
Sounds like you are trying to compare apples and oranges.

 

[Toro]

FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Healthcare Spending and Life Expectancy

After extrapolation, we should be living to age 95.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to xotoxi again.

lol

That's two things I've wanted to rep you on now in the past five minutes.



I know why there's such a big difference - all the money has gone to xotoxi!

<cue gif of shocked gopher>

 

[xotoxi]

FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Healthcare Spending and Life Expectancy

After extrapolation, we should be living to age 95.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to xotoxi again.

lol

That's two things I've wanted to rep you on now in the past five minutes.



I know why there's such a big difference - all the money has gone to xotoxi!

<cue gif of shocked gopher>

all the money has gone to xotoxi???

That means that...

SOMEONE HAS STOLEN ALL OF THE MONEY FROM XOTOXI!!!

 

[Oddball]

Defensive nothing.

I said you were using an non sequitur used by hacks, not necessarily that you were acting as one yourself.

Elective surgeries are only one aspect of the amount of money spent on medical services, and the fact that there are numerous other unrelated factors that play into life expectancy still stands.

Simply put, the life expectancy angle is a total red herring.

Saying that healthcare spending and life span is a total red herring is pretty silly. Drop healthcare spending to zero and I'm willing to bet that life expectancy ain't going to remain constant.

Of course, getting more facelifts and eating lots of Ho-Hos does have some effect on this graph. But do the math. The Danes live as long as Americans yet spend about $4000 per capita less than Americans on healthcare annually. With 310 million Americans, that is a difference of $1.24 trillion for the same outcome. Now, I'm sure eating lots herring and breathing in sea salt is healthy, but that's a lot of coin to explain away as lifestyle and elective surgery.

If you could quantify your argument, it would be appreciated.

The Danes have centrally rationed medical services, while Americans can spend all they want when they want. Moreover, the American numbers are quite probably inflated, by people who treat their insurance as pre-paid medical rather than for catastrophic medical/trauma events.

Likewise, and as was already pointed out, Americans die in traffic wrecks at the rate of about 35,000 annually. Also, America's murder rate is doubtlessly much higher as well. Then, there's all the smoking, drinking, obesity and recreational drug use that are very much a part of the American side of the equation...How do those stats stack up to the Danes?

 

[Toro]

The Danes have centrally rationed medical services, while Americans can spend all they want when they want. Moreover, the American numbers are quite probably inflated, by people who treat their insurance as pre-paid medical rather than for catastrophic medical/trauma events.

Likewise, and as was already pointed out, Americans die in traffic wrecks at the rate of about 35,000 annually. Also, America's murder rate is doubtlessly much higher as well. Then, there's all the smoking, drinking, obesity and recreational drug use that are very much a part of the American side of the equation...How do those stats stack up to the Danes?

2.5 million people die in America each year. About 16,000 are murdered, or about 0.64% of the total deaths.

I have to hop. Here are statistics on Denmark's mortality rate.

Powered by Google Docs

 

[Old Rocks]

Nope.

Just supplying information.

What you're supplying is a stale non sequitur used by partisan hacks.

Americans spend lots of money on medical procedures that have nothing whatsoever to do with life expectancy. Moreover, lifestyle choices (i.e. chronic overeating) have far more to do with life expectancy, than what the society as a whole spends on medical services.

You're way smarter than this, dude.

No,it is just that you are way dumber than you realize.

 

[Old Rocks]

Murder of young people may play a part as well. Bloods and Crips have a low life expectancy.

As in our society is failing and resembling third world countries in more than a few ways. And people like yourself think that is a great thing.

 

[Old Rocks]

What you're supplying is a stale non sequitur used by partisan hacks.

Americans spend lots of money on medical procedures that have nothing whatsoever to do with life expectancy. Moreover, lifestyle choices (i.e. chronic overeating) have far more to do with life expectancy, than what the society as a whole spends on medical services.

You're way smarter than this, dude.

My, my, aren't we defensive. Somebody might say that that response is partisan. Not me, of course...

That regression line is a pretty close fit. That's a helluva lot of tummy tucks and meals at IHOP to produce such a significant outlier as that.

I think you and I both know there's more to it than that.

Defensive nothing.

I said you were using an non sequitur used by hacks, not necessarily that you were acting as one yourself.

Elective surgeries are only one aspect of the amount of money spent on medical services, and the fact that there are numerous other unrelated factors that play into life expectancy still stands.

Simply put, the life expectancy angle is a total red herring.

Right, ain't it grand to by #37!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVgOl3cETb4[/ame]

 

[Old Rocks]

I wonder how car accidents figure in also. Doubt if there are too many 3 car families in most of those places.

And Ravi - I do believe in common sense gun control.

No cars in Germany, France, or Italy? And we all know those Italians are such sane drivers.

 

[uscitizen]

I think that cosmetic surgery not required for reconstruction after trauma or for repair of a birth defect be at a higher rate of copay than other maintenance and repair surgery.

It should actually be a seperate rider on the main policy. And not be a part of the main group policy.
This would drop costs for health related care.

 

[Old Rocks]

Defensive nothing.

I said you were using an non sequitur used by hacks, not necessarily that you were acting as one yourself.

Elective surgeries are only one aspect of the amount of money spent on medical services, and the fact that there are numerous other unrelated factors that play into life expectancy still stands.

Simply put, the life expectancy angle is a total red herring.

Saying that healthcare spending and life span is a total red herring is pretty silly. Drop healthcare spending to zero and I'm willing to bet that life expectancy ain't going to remain constant.

Of course, getting more facelifts and eating lots of Ho-Hos does have some effect on this graph. But do the math. The Danes live as long as Americans yet spend about $4000 per capita less than Americans on healthcare annually. With 310 million Americans, that is a difference of $1.24 trillion for the same outcome. Now, I'm sure eating lots herring and breathing in sea salt is healthy, but that's a lot of coin to explain away as lifestyle and elective surgery.

If you could quantify your argument, it would be appreciated.

The Danes have centrally rationed medical services, while Americans can spend all they want when they want. Moreover, the American numbers are quite probably inflated, by people who treat their insurance as pre-paid medical rather than for catastrophic medical/trauma events.

Likewise, and as was already pointed out, Americans die in traffic wrecks at the rate of about 35,000 annually. Also, America's murder rate is doubtlessly much higher as well. Then, there's all the smoking, drinking, obesity and recreational drug use that are very much a part of the American side of the equation...How do those stats stack up to the Danes?

Perhaps then we should be comparing our health with that of the Dutch.

 

[Oddball]

Yes....Let's compare the longevity rate of our entire nation, with a country whose population doesn't add up to that of Florida.

 

[Toro]

Yes....Let's compare the longevity rate of our entire nation, with a country whose population doesn't add up to that of Florida.

Well, then why not compare Holland to a state of similar size, such as Florida?

Or you can add up all those countries that have a life expectancy of 78 or greater on that graph, and you will find that the population of those countries approximates that of the US. 500 million people live in the EU, 60% more than the US.

 

[Oddball]

That makes no more sense than comparing states whose populations live more active and healthy lifestyles (i.e Minnesota and Utah) against states like New York or Mississippi, as indicative of their overall medical care systems.

That is to say, none at all.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ol' Dooodeeee........ just cannot admit that the totality of the evidence is against his nonsensical position.

Our health care system does not cover all of our citizens and delivers inferior service to all too many of those it does cover.

Not only do we die sooner than the people of most other industrial countries, we get to die bankrupt because of medical bills. 700,000 to a million American families experianced the joys of medical bankruptcy in 2008, all too many losing their homes. Many of those families are now homeless. And all too many of those families were previously middle class working citizens of this nation.

But that all right with Dooodeee........ . Much better that the Health Insurance company CEOs make their hundreds of millions annually off of denying care to Americans that have paid for it.

 

[Oddball]

I can see the totality of the evidence and plainly see that there are numerous factors of American lifestyles, which don't apply to European nations whose populations don't add up to medium sized American states, that can factor into the stats.

Unlike you, I can process information in terms other than dumbed-down Hegelian either/or scenarios.

 

[Old Rocks]

Oh Dummeee Dooodeee...... The EU consists of 500 million people. Of many nationalities and differant habits. Want to compare consumption of strong drink, US and Scotland? Yet, overall, this political entity, with several differant types of universal health care within it's borders, exceeds us in longevity and does much better in the infant mortality department, also.

And they pay far less, and do not have nearly a million of their citizens going bankrupt every year because of medical bills.

Just who benefits from those bankruptcies?

 

[Oddball]

I don't see any stats in the OP that takes the EU as an entire block, meathead.

And they pay less because the services are rationed by authoritarian central control.

 

[Care4all]

FYI

elective/cosmetic surgeries....boob jobs, lipo suction etc....are NOT included in these figures for Health Care expenditures....

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/NationalHealthExpendData/downloads/dsm-08.pdf