Hawking says physics proves there is no time for "Gawd".

[daws101]

My pleasure. And if Hawking has chosen to reject the very idea of a Divine Being, that doesn't make him correct -- no matter how angry he is at the crappy outcome of random chance in the health lottery of life.

someone please explain where ywc gets the idea that death is punishment for sin

The wages of sin? I have also heard that it is "death."

Why ask the question, though?

What difference does it make?

I heard that one too,
I took it to mean something like, drinking too much can kill you.
a warning , not if you do that god will personally kill you.

the question was a way to understand how people think.
on the grand scale it's meaningless.

 

[Liability]

someone please explain where ywc gets the idea that death is punishment for sin

The wages of sin? I have also heard that it is "death."

Why ask the question, though?

What difference does it make?

I heard that one too,
I took it to mean something like, drinking too much can kill you.
a warning , not if you do that god will personally kill you.

the question was a way to understand how people think.
on the grand scale it's meaningless.

On THE grand scale we are all pretty meaningless.

Well, maybe not Einstein.

He was fucking cool.

Now, as to what "the wages of sin" was intended to convey:

http://biblecommenter.com/romans/6-23.htm

 

[koshergrl]

someone please explain where ywc gets the idea that death is punishment for sin

The wages of sin? I have also heard that it is "death."

Why ask the question, though?

What difference does it make?

I heard that one too,
I took it to mean something like, drinking too much can kill you.
a warning , not if you do that god will personally kill you.

the question was a way to understand how people think.
on the grand scale it's meaningless.

Actually, it means that we experience death because of sin. Before sin there was no death.

And we escape death even now...if we lay our sin on the cross.

But die with it on you, you're a goner.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Sure, after being denied the knowledge of good and evil they are deceived into making a choice between good and evil.

God simplified it for all of us.

Joh 3:13 And no one has ascended up to Heaven except He who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man who is in Heaven.

Not that your quote has anything to do with the fact that Adam and Eve were denied the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil before they had to make a choice between good and evil, but it is yet more proof that the bible contradicts itself everywhere.

2Ki 2:1* And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

2Ki 2:11* And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Did anyone ascend into heaven before Jesus or not? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

 

[edthecynic]

God simplified it for all of us.

Joh 3:13 And no one has ascended up to Heaven except He who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man who is in Heaven.

Not that your quote has anything to do with the fact that Adam and Eve were denied the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil before they had to make a choice between good and evil, but it is yet more proof that the bible contradicts itself everywhere.

2Ki 2:1* And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

2Ki 2:11* And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Did anyone ascend into heaven before Jesus or not? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Well, I guess if you will believe that 3 Gods are 1 then you will have no trouble swallowing 3 heavens. One for each God, maybe??? And if you believe that you will believe God will reward his faithful by abandoning them in the heavenly rain or the vast darkness of outer space. Is that the heaven you expect for your faith??? Do you really think you will get a better heaven than Elijah???

From your link:

Biblical demonstration of the three heavens

First heaven - Earth Atmosphere

(Deuteronomy 11:17) - "Then the LORD's anger will burn against you, and he will shut the heavens so that it will not rain and the ground will yield no produce...."
(Deuteronomy 28:12) - "The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands."

Second Heaven - Outer Space

(Psalm 19:4,6) - "In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun... It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other;..."
(Jeremiah 8:2) - They will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of the heavens which they have loved and served...."

Third Heaven - Where God dwells

(1 Kings 8:27) - "But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you."
(Psalm 2:4) - The One enthroned in heaven laughs; The LORD scoffs at them."

 

[Youwerecreated]

Not that your quote has anything to do with the fact that Adam and Eve were denied the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil before they had to make a choice between good and evil, but it is yet more proof that the bible contradicts itself everywhere.

2Ki 2:1* And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

2Ki 2:11* And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Did anyone ascend into heaven before Jesus or not? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Well, I guess if you will believe that 3 Gods are 1 then you will have no trouble swallowing 3 heavens. One for each God, maybe??? And if you believe that you will believe God will reward his faithful by abandoning them in the heavenly rain or the vast darkness of outer space. Is that the heaven you expect for your faith??? Do you really think you will get a better heaven than Elijah???

From your link:

Biblical demonstration of the three heavens

First heaven - Earth Atmosphere

(Deuteronomy 11:17) - "Then the LORD's anger will burn against you, and he will shut the heavens so that it will not rain and the ground will yield no produce...."
(Deuteronomy 28:12) - "The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands."

Second Heaven - Outer Space

(Psalm 19:4,6) - "In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun... It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other;..."
(Jeremiah 8:2) - They will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of the heavens which they have loved and served...."

Third Heaven - Where God dwells

(1 Kings 8:27) - "But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you."
(Psalm 2:4) - The One enthroned in heaven laughs; The LORD scoffs at them."

I believe as many Jews do in the three heavens. But there is only one heaven that God and the Angels reside in.

With careful study the bible does not contradict itself.

1Co 15:50 And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Elijah was not a spirit. God and the angels are spirits.

Joh 4:24 God is a spirit, and they who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth.

Psa 104:4 He makes His angels spirits, His ministers a flaming fire.

 

[edthecynic]

Did anyone ascend into heaven before Jesus or not? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Well, I guess if you will believe that 3 Gods are 1 then you will have no trouble swallowing 3 heavens. One for each God, maybe??? And if you believe that you will believe God will reward his faithful by abandoning them in the heavenly rain or the vast darkness of outer space. Is that the heaven you expect for your faith??? Do you really think you will get a better heaven than Elijah???

From your link:

Biblical demonstration of the three heavens

First heaven - Earth Atmosphere

(Deuteronomy 11:17) - "Then the LORD's anger will burn against you, and he will shut the heavens so that it will not rain and the ground will yield no produce...."
(Deuteronomy 28:12) - "The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands."

Second Heaven - Outer Space

(Psalm 19:4,6) - "In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun... It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other;..."
(Jeremiah 8:2) - They will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of the heavens which they have loved and served...."

Third Heaven - Where God dwells

(1 Kings 8:27) - "But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you."
(Psalm 2:4) - The One enthroned in heaven laughs; The LORD scoffs at them."

I believe as many Jews do in the three heavens. But there is only one heaven that God and the Angels reside in.

With careful study the bible does not contradict itself.

1Co 15:50 And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Elijah was not a spirit. God and the angels are spirits.

Joh 4:24 God is a spirit, and they who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth.

Psa 104:4 He makes His angels spirits, His ministers a flaming fire.

Then you have to believe that Elijah's faithfulness was rewarded by being left out in the rain or lost in space. The same heavenly reward awaits YOU!!!

 

[Liability]

The biblical discussion is mostly off topic.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Well, I guess if you will believe that 3 Gods are 1 then you will have no trouble swallowing 3 heavens. One for each God, maybe??? And if you believe that you will believe God will reward his faithful by abandoning them in the heavenly rain or the vast darkness of outer space. Is that the heaven you expect for your faith??? Do you really think you will get a better heaven than Elijah???

From your link:

Biblical demonstration of the three heavens

First heaven - Earth Atmosphere

(Deuteronomy 11:17) - "Then the LORD's anger will burn against you, and he will shut the heavens so that it will not rain and the ground will yield no produce...."
(Deuteronomy 28:12) - "The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands."

Second Heaven - Outer Space

(Psalm 19:4,6) - "In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun... It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other;..."
(Jeremiah 8:2) - They will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of the heavens which they have loved and served...."

Third Heaven - Where God dwells

(1 Kings 8:27) - "But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you."
(Psalm 2:4) - The One enthroned in heaven laughs; The LORD scoffs at them."

I believe as many Jews do in the three heavens. But there is only one heaven that God and the Angels reside in.

With careful study the bible does not contradict itself.

1Co 15:50 And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Elijah was not a spirit. God and the angels are spirits.

Joh 4:24 God is a spirit, and they who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth.

Psa 104:4 He makes His angels spirits, His ministers a flaming fire.

Then you have to believe that Elijah's faithfulness was rewarded by being left out in the rain or lost in space. The same heavenly reward awaits YOU!!!

No one knows what happened to Elijah.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The biblical discussion is mostly off topic.

Yes it is.

 

[edthecynic]

I believe as many Jews do in the three heavens. But there is only one heaven that God and the Angels reside in.

With careful study the bible does not contradict itself.

1Co 15:50 And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Elijah was not a spirit. God and the angels are spirits.

Joh 4:24 God is a spirit, and they who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth.

Psa 104:4 He makes His angels spirits, His ministers a flaming fire.

Then you have to believe that Elijah's faithfulness was rewarded by being left out in the rain or lost in space. The same heavenly reward awaits YOU!!!

No one knows what happened to Elijah.

Only if no one knows what the bible says. The bible says he was taken up into heaven, so his faith was rewarded with being in the presence of God, cast aside in the atmosphere with the rain for company, or launched cold and alone into space among the stars. Which heaven do you think is a fitting reward for his faithfulness to God?

 

[edthecynic]

The biblical discussion is mostly off topic.

Yes it is.

Well, since YOU were the one who posted the bible quote that started the biblical discussion, I will take that as an admission that you believe I have the better argument but as a Christian you are not honest enough to admit it outright.
Thank you.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Then you have to believe that Elijah's faithfulness was rewarded by being left out in the rain or lost in space. The same heavenly reward awaits YOU!!!

No one knows what happened to Elijah.

Only if no one knows what the bible says. The bible says he was taken up into heaven, so his faith was rewarded with being in the presence of God, cast aside in the atmosphere with the rain for company, or launched cold and alone into space among the stars. Which heaven do you think is a fitting reward for his faithfulness to God?

If you must believe that then do so but no one knows if he was taken to be spared the usual death or not. It's only speculative. Besides God does not always give complete explanations and there will be many questions we will ask and get answered some day.

The problems with theories is they are only based on opinions and some evidence that might cause you to lean one way or the other.

If you wish to debate the bible start a thread or find one dealing with the subject.

By the way were you looking for a reason to get off the topic because you were losing ?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

How bout this,I know there is a lot of reading in those threads,so I can make it eaier on you and we can choose a topic to discuss.

Here are some topics you choose the topic and let's discuss it.

Genetics,mutations, mutation count,origins of life,DNA is a language,DNA similarity,the fossil record,Abiogenesis,what do mutations do,Neo darwinism, and the miller urey experiment.

Choose the topic? You already did. You claimed the big bang has been disproven. I asked you to explain how. I'm waiting.

What I said was there was plenty of evidence against the the Big Bang theory you said no there isn't And I gave you links showing otherwise.

How do those links show otherwise? If you can't explain it yourself what are we even talking to each other for?

Now pick a subject that I offered you. You are the one that made the claim I can't articulate my arguments,I am giving you the chance to prove your claim.

You can't. YOu just had the opportunity to articulate arguments and you once again deferred to links.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Abiogenesis is biochemistry, evolution is biology. If you don't understand the difference I suggest you pick up some books.

Oh no, no! You misunderstand! I agree 100%. BIOchemisty and BIOlogy are two completely unrelated and distinct fields. Evolutionary biologists rarely interact with biochemists, I'm sure. They probably don't even know each other's names. You're right.

Sarcasm just makes you look stupid.

Tell me something, is PSYCHology and PSYCHiatry the same thing too?

You don't get it. I agree w you. Biochemistry and biology are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENCE disciplines, just like you said.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Then how do you know what it says?

Gee, how do I know that? Because he fracking said that is what it says. If you have a problem with his interpretation of the math feel free to take it up with him. How dumb are you?

Fallacious appeal to authority

If I can't my degree isn't worth the paper its printed on.

I would just love to see the math.

You have degree in proving Hawking wrong? You are right, it isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

You answered your own question. General relativity implies an expanding (or contracting) universe unless you rig it with a fudge parameter called the "Cosmological constant" that magically has the exact value needed to cause gravity to be balanced in the universe, resulting in a steady state. Any deviation above or below the exact value required will result in an expanding or contracting Universe.

Damn, not only are you stupid, you are proud of your stupidity.

Einstein's math showed him the the universe had already collapsed, and it kept showing him that no matter how many times he redid it. He was forced to throw in the cosmological constant in order to make the universe exist in a steady state where it neither expanded nor contracted. That universe is fundamentally incompatible with the Big Bang, which is why he called that constant the biggest mistake he ever made after Hubble proved the universe is expanding.

LOL! No, sorry, but any student of cosmology knows that Einstein's GR admits three possible solutions - expanding, contracting, or steady state. Just look up the Friedmann–Lemaître–Robertson–Walker metric.

The only reason scientists are using it now because they still have the problem that the universe is not cooperating with their math, so they are forced to do the same thing Einstein did, add a fudge factor to the equations to make their math line up with the observed reality.

That's not entirely true. Alan Guth used the cosmological constant to successfully predict the distribution of the microwave background radiation. its a very useful theory for the early Universe. Problem it is doesn't jive with the more recent Universe unless it changes with time.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Choose the topic? You already did. You claimed the big bang has been disproven. I asked you to explain how. I'm waiting.

What I said was there was plenty of evidence against the the Big Bang theory you said no there isn't And I gave you links showing otherwise.

How do those links show otherwise? If you can't explain it yourself what are we even talking to each other for?

Now pick a subject that I offered you. You are the one that made the claim I can't articulate my arguments,I am giving you the chance to prove your claim.

You can't. YOu just had the opportunity to articulate arguments and you once again deferred to links.

By theory all the matter in the universe was condensed in to a little dot where it spun until it exploded in the explosion the universe was created and everything in it.

Questions for this theory are.

Where did all the matter come from ?

What caused all this matter to condense into this dot ?

Where did the gravity come from that held this dot together ?

Where did the energy come from that caused the dot to spin ?

In an enviornment absent of friction you have a dot of energy spinning so fast it exploded . If this happened, then all of the particles and matter being propelled from this spinning dot would all have to spin in the same direction as the dot they exploded from.

This means that all planets created from this explosion would have to spin the same direction this dot was spinning,but venus and uranus spin the opposite direction how can this be ?

 

[Liability]

The biblical discussion is mostly off topic.

Yes it is.

Well, since YOU were the one who posted the bible quote that started the biblical discussion, I will take that as an admission that you believe I have the better argument but as a Christian you are not honest enough to admit it outright.
Thank you.

You can take anything any way you want, being the delusional nitwit you always are.
However, I am not the one who brought up the bible or biblical quotes nor the first one to reference God.

And, even a tool like you SHOULD be able to take note of the fact that I said "mostly" off topic.

YOU then proceeded to attempt to hijack the entire thread with a simple (related) but off-shoot comment.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

What I said was there was plenty of evidence against the the Big Bang theory you said no there isn't And I gave you links showing otherwise.

How do those links show otherwise? If you can't explain it yourself what are we even talking to each other for?

Now pick a subject that I offered you. You are the one that made the claim I can't articulate my arguments,I am giving you the chance to prove your claim.

You can't. YOu just had the opportunity to articulate arguments and you once again deferred to links.

By theory all the matter in the universe was condensed in to a little dot where it spun until it exploded in the explosion the universe was created and everything in it.

Questions for this theory are.

Where did all the matter come from ?

Dunno. Any ideas?

What caused all this matter to condense into this dot ?

Dunno. Any ideas?

Where did the gravity come from that held this dot together ?

Mass

Where did the energy come from that caused the dot to spin ?

It was spinning? The Universe has net angular momentum?

In an enviornment absent of friction you have a dot of energy spinning so fast it exploded . If this happened, then all of the particles and matter being propelled from this spinning dot would all have to spin in the same direction as the dot they exploded from.

It exploded due to gas pressure, not rotational force.

This means that all planets created from this explosion would have to spin the same direction this dot was spinning,but venus and uranus spin the opposite direction how can this be ?

They were hit by asteroids that set them spinning in the wrong direction.

Do you have any arguments to make, or just questions.

 

[Youwerecreated]

How do those links show otherwise? If you can't explain it yourself what are we even talking to each other for?







You can't. YOu just had the opportunity to articulate arguments and you once again deferred to links.

By theory all the matter in the universe was condensed in to a little dot where it spun until it exploded in the explosion the universe was created and everything in it.

Questions for this theory are.

Where did all the matter come from ?

Dunno. Any ideas?


Dunno. Any ideas?



Mass


It was spinning? The Universe has net angular momentum?

In an enviornment absent of friction you have a dot of energy spinning so fast it exploded . If this happened, then all of the particles and matter being propelled from this spinning dot would all have to spin in the same direction as the dot they exploded from.

It exploded due to gas pressure, not rotational force.

This means that all planets created from this explosion would have to spin the same direction this dot was spinning,but venus and uranus spin the opposite direction how can this be ?

They were hit by asteroids that set them spinning in the wrong direction.

Do you have any arguments to make, or just questions.

This theory makes no sense at all like many other theories out there.

Gas pressure caused the explosion ? to ignite the gases you would need friction which causes heat. But wait there was no friction.

You think this theory is viable ?

It violates the first law of thermodynamics. But yet you fall for it.