Hate Crime

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Facts of the Case:
On October 7, 1989, Todd Mitchell, a young black man, instigated an attack against a young white boy. He was subsequently convicted of aggravated battery in the Circuit Court for Kenosha County. According to Wisconsin statute, Mitchell's sentence was increased, because the court found that he had selected his victim based on race. Mitchell challenged the constitutionality of the increase in his penalty, but the Wisconsin Court of Appeals rejected his claims. However, the Wisconsin Supreme Court reversed.

Question:
Did the increase in Mitchell's sentence based on his bigoted motives violate his First Amendment rights?

Conclusion:
No. In a unanimous opinion authored by Justice William H. Rehnquist, the Court found that the Wisconsin statute paralleled antidiscrimination laws which had been found to comply with the First Amendment. It also determined that the consequences for the victim and the community tended to be more severe, when the victim of a crime was chosen on account of his or her race. Thus, when the Wisconsin statute increased the sentence for such crimes, it was not punishing the defendant for his or her bigoted beliefs or statements, but rather the predicted ramifications of his or her crime. Finally, the Court concluded that the Wisconsin statute did not violate the right to free speech because the occasion in which an average person's racist comments would be used against him or her in a court of law would arise so rarely that he or she would not feel forced to suppress them.

Wisconsin v. Mitchell | The Oyez Project at IIT Chicago-Kent College of Law

The Court also held that judges are given wide discretion when considering factors pursuant to sentencing.

Hate crime legislation is therefore Constitutional, the OP is correct.

But, he gets no special consideration, because he is a straight white male.

Is James Anderson more or less dead because they 'hate' him?

Would I be more or less dead than James if someone murdered me?

Equality is what is important, not special victims.

In order for laws to be righteous, they must be applied equally and fairly to all people. Hate crimes have become a bargaining tool for the prosecuters when it comes to plea deals. The more crimes they can charge you with the less the prosecuter has to work.

Think about it...A white male walks into a 7-11 and holds up the store, he kills the clerk in the robbery, who happens to be gay. How many crimes do you figure the criminal is charged with?

1) Larceny 2) larceny with the use of a firearm 3) Hate crime because the clerk was gay 4) computer crime because the criminal looked up the location of the 7-11 on line 5) resisting arrest because he tried to escape from the police. So on and so on and so on.

Now the prosecuter says I'll drop everything but the hate crime if you plead guilty? The criminal is overwhelmed and agrees. Prosecuter get his conviction and does not have to actually do any work. The problem with this type of deal is that innocent people end up in prison because they don't want to risk a lengthy jail stay. This is not justice.

hate crime stuff is just to make race card players feel good....

Hate crime laws are for those who love being victims.

Incorrect. See the cited case above.

 

[uscitizen]

One must confront their fears instead of expressing it as hatred of what you fear.

 

[Sky Dancer]

One must confront their fears instead of expressing it as hatred of what you fear.

Exactly. I witnessed my first hate crime when I was 14.

 

[California Girl]

No one is answering the question. Do you KNOW ANY victims of hate crime? I know many.

I know quite a few people who are criminally stupid. Does that count?

If you don't know anyone who has been targeted for a hate crime then you don't see it's importance.

My life experience has been that I've lived in several communities where hate crimes were perpetrated and I've seen first hand the effect it's had on the community.

You're quite judgmental of other people, Sky. Please don't assume you know about my life.

 

[Sky Dancer]

No if someone burned my church we all would consider it arson, plain and simple. Then we would forgive the person that did it. Pray for their souls and let the state do what it does punish arsonists.

Whatever. Your mind is closed to the topic. That's fine.

And so is yours. You dont want intellegent discussion.

Thanks for admitting your mind is closed. Yes, I am completely supportive of hate crime law. You're not going to change my mind, any more than I am going to change yours.

We can discuss the reasons for our intractable positions, however.

 

[Tank]

Hate and fear are often closely linked.

A major factor in racism and homophobia.
OMFG! a faggot will see my weenie in the mens room!

A guy checking out some guys dick in the bathroom, is the same as a guy checking out your pussy in the bathroom.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I know quite a few people who are criminally stupid. Does that count?

If you don't know anyone who has been targeted for a hate crime then you don't see it's importance.

My life experience has been that I've lived in several communities where hate crimes were perpetrated and I've seen first hand the effect it's had on the community.

You're quite judgmental of other people, Sky. Please don't assume you know about my life.

If you haven't known anyone who has been a victim of a hate crime, then you're more likely to not see it's importance. I lived in a black neighborhood in Portland when Mulageta Seraw was murdered by skinheads. You have no idea what that community went through with that crime.

If you want to call that statement, "judgmental", so be it. I have no problem with who I am and what I believe. My views come from a lifetime of experience.

YOU will note that the post you've linked says NOTHING about YOU.

 

[Tank]

Yes, I am completely supportive of hate crime law.

If I killed you because you are "completely supportive of hate crime law",

hate crime?

 

[Sky Dancer]

The murder of Mulugeta Seraw was one of the most shocking crimes in Portland history. In response, hundreds of people turned out for rallies against racism.

I have provided example, after example, after example of hate crime and still, you folks deny it exists, and that the law is needed.

The three skinheads who murdered Seraw have all been released from prison.

 

[California Girl]

The murder of Mulugeta Seraw was one of the most shocking crimes in Portland history. In response, hundreds of people turned out for rallies against racism.

I have provided example, after example, after example of hate crime and still, you folks deny it exists, and that the law is needed.

The three skinheads who murdered Seraw have all been released from prison.

No one denies that hate exists. What we disagree with is that it should be a factor in sentencing. All victims deserve the same justice.

Get this: you are not special. A crime against you is no more and no less than a crime against me.

Again, laws based on emotion are never good laws.

 

[Divine Wind]

I have provided example, after example, after example of hate crime and still, you folks deny it exists, and that the law is needed.[/B].

Sky Dancer, I like you, but emotionalizing the issue to the point of distortion isn't right. No one here has said hate doesn't exist. I, for one, am simply saying that, if I were murdered along with a black man by a racist, that I consider my murder as worthy of an equal sentence as the man killed along with me. Murder is murder. Terrorism is terrorism. Making special rules for "special people" isn't the American way. It's just bad politics.

The three skinheads who murdered Seraw have all been released from prison.

Not quite: Mulugeta Seraw - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After one week of investigation, Mieske, Brewster, and Strasser were arrested. Brewster and Strasser were convicted of manslaughter and assault. Brewster was released in November 2002, but in 2006 violated parole and was sent back to prison.[6]
In 1990, Mieske was convicted of first-degree murder and was serving a life sentence when he died July 26, 2011 at the age of 45. At the time of his death, he was still being referred to as a "Prisoner of War" by white power groups.[7]
In October 1990, Seraw's father and son, represented at no cost by the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League, won a civil case against White Aryan Resistance's operator Tom Metzger and his son John Metzger for a total of $12.5 million.[8][9] The cost of trial, in the hundreds of thousands of dollars[10] was absorbed by the SPLC and the ADL.[11] Metzger being unable to cover the damages, the Seraws' lawyer decided to file legal documents in order to have his Fallbrook, California home and his assets seized.[12] As a result, the house was transferred to Seraw's estate for a value of $121,500; Metzger was allowed to keep $45,000 under California's Homestead Act.[13] Metzger was warned that any damage caused to the house would result in a lawsuit; he still left it "a mess" with cracked windows, but without serious damage.[13] The Metzgers declared bankruptcy but WAR continued to operate. Metzger himself was forced to move into an apartment and collect welfare. He still makes payments to Seraw's family.[14]

 

[uscitizen]

I agree that sentencing should vary depending on other factors.
Such as I believe that sentencing for crimes commited by those in postitions of aauthority/power should be doubled.

Such as for police, elected officials, etc.

 

[Sky Dancer]

The murder of Mulugeta Seraw was one of the most shocking crimes in Portland history. In response, hundreds of people turned out for rallies against racism.

I have provided example, after example, after example of hate crime and still, you folks deny it exists, and that the law is needed.

The three skinheads who murdered Seraw have all been released from prison.

No one denies that hate exists. What we disagree with is that it should be a factor in sentencing. All victims deserve the same justice.

Get this: you are not special. A crime against you is no more and no less than a crime against me.

Again, laws based on emotion are never good laws.

This is not a law based on emotion. It is a law that speaks the communities committment against hate crime. It is a law that recognizes that these kinds of crimes do not affect only one victim and the victim's family. These are crimes that pit one group against another.

IMO, it is NOT justice that one of Seraw's murderers have already been released from prison. Victims of hate crime do not feel "special".

This is NOT about ME being more important than YOU. Stop personalizing it.

I had NO idea how far to the right this board leans until now. I'm stunned. My friends are shocked.

 

[California Girl]

The murder of Mulugeta Seraw was one of the most shocking crimes in Portland history. In response, hundreds of people turned out for rallies against racism.

I have provided example, after example, after example of hate crime and still, you folks deny it exists, and that the law is needed.

The three skinheads who murdered Seraw have all been released from prison.

No one denies that hate exists. What we disagree with is that it should be a factor in sentencing. All victims deserve the same justice.

Get this: you are not special. A crime against you is no more and no less than a crime against me.

Again, laws based on emotion are never good laws.

This is not a law based on emotion. It is a law that speaks the communities committment against hate crime. It is a law that recognizes that these kinds of crimes do not affect only one victim and the victim's family. These are crimes that pit one group against another.

IMO, it is NOT justice that one of Seraw's murderers have already been released from prison. Victims of hate crime do not feel "special".

This is NOT about ME being more important than YOU. Stop personalizing it.

I had NO idea how far to the right this board leans until now.

Oh, right... so victims of hate crimes are special? I'm sorry but that remains ludicrous to me. You don't think other people suffer because of the crimes committed against them or their families? Or do your victims suffer more? How do we measure this 'suffering'?

All the 'hate crime' crap does is single certain people out for special treatment -and, worse, breeds a 'special victim' status that gives some victims preference over others. I find that offensive. It pisses me off. You are not special... get over it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

No one denies that hate exists. What we disagree with is that it should be a factor in sentencing. All victims deserve the same justice.

Get this: you are not special. A crime against you is no more and no less than a crime against me.

Again, laws based on emotion are never good laws.

This is not a law based on emotion. It is a law that speaks the communities committment against hate crime. It is a law that recognizes that these kinds of crimes do not affect only one victim and the victim's family. These are crimes that pit one group against another.

IMO, it is NOT justice that one of Seraw's murderers have already been released from prison. Victims of hate crime do not feel "special".

This is NOT about ME being more important than YOU. Stop personalizing it.

I had NO idea how far to the right this board leans until now.

Oh, right... so victims of hate crimes are special? I'm sorry but that remains ludicrous to me. You don't think other people suffer because of the crimes committed against them or their families? Or do your victims suffer more? How do we measure this 'suffering'?

All the 'hate crime' crap does is single certain people out for special treatment -and, worse, breeds a 'special victim' status that gives some victims preference over others. I find that offensive. It pisses me off. You are not special... get over it.

You deny there is such a thing as hate crime?

Believe me, minorities feel real "special" being singled out for violence.

If you're angry, take responsibility for it. It's YOUR reaction.

Victims of hate crime take twice as long to recover that victims of non-bias crime. The entire group of people in the class that has been targeted are affected.

Aren't you the same gal that "hates racism"?

Hate crime law exists. Get over it.

"Such hate crimes, committed solely because the victims have a different skin color or a different faith or are gays or lesbians, leave deep scars not only on the victims but on our larger community. They are acts of violence against America itself."
– President Bill Clinton in his weekly radio address,
June 7, 1997

 

[strollingbones]

If you don't know anyone who has been targeted for a hate crime then you don't see it's importance.

My life experience has been that I've lived in several communities where hate crimes were perpetrated and I've seen first hand the effect it's had on the community.

You're quite judgmental of other people, Sky. Please don't assume you know about my life.

If you haven't known anyone who has been a victim of a hate crime, then you're more likely to not see it's importance. I lived in a black neighborhood in Portland when Mulageta Seraw was murdered by skinheads. You have no idea what that community went through with that crime.

If you want to call that statement, "judgmental", so be it. I have no problem with who I am and what I believe. My views come from a lifetime of experience.

YOU will note that the post you've linked says NOTHING about YOU.

thats it i have had it....you go on and on in your judge fucking mental passive aggressive bullshit way and expect to do what? you claim your friends find us ignorant....you claim its right wingers ....do you think i am a rightwinger? wtf?

then you go on about how if we experience mal like you have we would feel different...tell me sky do you read anyones posts but your own? i have discussed in threads..being in greensboro nc when the klan opened fire...was i right there...no i wasnt....nor have you witness a murder ....but you will latch on to anything to prove how much more advanced you are in your concepts of humanity...

you continue to tell us we havent experience etc etc and so forth....well guess what....you have no clue what any other posters has experienced since you dont read or remember anyone else's post...

let me bottom line this for ya....take your holier than thou rhetoric and shove it up your ass

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hate crime law bill authorizes the federal government, and directs federal grant money, to assist in the investigation and prosecution of hate crimes. It added disability, sexual orientation, gender and gender identity to the list of categories under which a hate crime can be prosecuted for “willfully causing bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempting to cause bodily injury to any person.”

There is no provision for enhanced sentencing of someone convicted of a hate crime, and there is no provision that limits or criminalizes anyone’s thoughts or speech.

The House Judiciary Committee added even more First Amendment protections to the Law before it was passed out of committee, with a new provision specifically stating that “nothing in this Act, or the amendments made by this Act, shall be construed to prohibit any expressive conduct protected from legal prohibition by, or any activities protected by the free speech or free exercise clauses of, the First Amendment to the Constitution.”

The right wing lies about federal hate crimes legislation | National Gay and Lesbian Task Force

 

[strollingbones]

o and dont come in here saying you have been spending how many years of your life in a commune and then tell everyone how much you know about life.....

 

[Sky Dancer]

You're quite judgmental of other people, Sky. Please don't assume you know about my life.

If you haven't known anyone who has been a victim of a hate crime, then you're more likely to not see it's importance. I lived in a black neighborhood in Portland when Mulageta Seraw was murdered by skinheads. You have no idea what that community went through with that crime.

If you want to call that statement, "judgmental", so be it. I have no problem with who I am and what I believe. My views come from a lifetime of experience.

YOU will note that the post you've linked says NOTHING about YOU.

thats it i have had it....you go on and on in your judge fucking mental passive aggressive bullshit way and expect to do what? you claim your friends find us ignorant....you claim its right wingers ....do you think i am a rightwinger? wtf?

then you go on about how if we experience mal like you have we would feel different...tell me sky do you read anyones posts but your own? i have discussed in threads..being in greensboro nc when the klan opened fire...was i right there...no i wasnt....nor have you witness a murder ....but you will latch on to anything to prove how much more advanced you are in your concepts of humanity...

you continue to tell us we havent experience etc etc and so forth....well guess what....you have no clue what any other posters has experienced since you dont read or remember anyone else's post...

let me bottom line this for ya....take your holier than thou rhetoric and shove it up your ass

Calm down. Stop taking everything so personally. I haven't attacked you. Take responsibility for your own anger. You're overreacting.

My friends are astounded at the reaction of this message board to the discussion of hate crime. Yes, they claim it is ignorance. I agree. That's my opinion.

Why do you care what I or my friends think? You can't me anyway.

 

[Sky Dancer]

o and dont come in here saying you have been spending how many years of your life in a commune and then tell everyone how much you know about life.....

I have never lived in a commune. Nice of you to try and use my disclosure about quitting Buddhism as a weapon. That was low even for you.