Harvard atheist has vision, converts to Catholicism

[K9Buck]

Now as for the question you posed...

“What exists in the universe that caused itself to exist?”

I’ve made no assertion that anything has, or hasn’t. So I can’t give you an answer to your question.

Well, the answer is that nothing in this universe, not even the universe itself, can or did cause itself to exist. It is evident that something or, someone, outside of the universe caused the universe to exist. I cannot prove it, of course, but logic would seem to bear this out. The cause is God.

 

[Vastator]

Now as for the question you posed...

“What exists in the universe that caused itself to exist?”

I’ve made no assertion that anything has, or hasn’t. So I can’t give you an answer to your question.

Well, the answer is that nothing in this universe, not even the universe itself, can or did cause itself to exist. It is evident that something or, someone, outside of the universe caused the universe to exist. I cannot prove it, of course, but logic would seem to bear this out. The cause is God.

I had no objection to the answer you gave till the conclusion, which basically says “I don’t know; therefore God.” That is a leap that has no evidence to support it. Sometimes “I don’t know” is the best we can do...

 

[K9Buck]

I had no objection to the answer you gave till the conclusion, which basically says “I don’t know; therefore God.” That is a leap that has no evidence to support it. Sometimes “I don’t know” is the best we can do...

Allow me to clarify. I don't KNOW that there is a God. I BELIEVE there is a God.

For me, there is a plethora of "evidence" for a creator, aka "God", none of which is based on religion or ancient books.

Take the Jews and Israel. No segment of humanity has been as persecuted since the dawn of man to today. Which nation receives more international criticism than Israel? Not even North Korea gets as much criticism, in fact, it's not even close. Why is that? It's because Jews are God's "chosen people" and Satan, the prince of this world, compels people to hate and persecute the Jews. If there is no God and no Satan, then one would have to believe that the over-the-top hatred of the Jews since time began is just a major coincidence.

 

[Vastator]

I had no objection to the answer you gave till the conclusion, which basically says “I don’t know; therefore God.” That is a leap that has no evidence to support it. Sometimes “I don’t know” is the best we can do...

Allow me to clarify. I don't KNOW that there is a God. I BELIEVE there is a God.

For me, there is a plethora of "evidence" for a creator, aka "God", none of which is based on religion or ancient books.

Take the Jews and Israel. No segment of humanity has been as persecuted since the dawn of man to today. Which nation receives more international criticism than Israel? Not even North Korea gets as much criticism, in fact, it's not even close. Why is that? It's because Jews are God's "chosen people" and Satan, the prince of this world, compels people to hate and persecute the Jews. If there is no God and no Satan, then one would have to believe that the over-the-top hatred of the Jews since time began is just a major coincidence.

I find that it’s simply overstated.

 

[ChemEngineer]

When Frederick the Great, the atheist king of Prussia, asked, “Can you give me one single irrefutable proof of God?” Jean-Baptiste de Boyer (Marquis d’Argens) replied, “Yes, your Majesty, the Jews.”

In 1754, Thomas Newton wrote of the Jews: “Their preservation is really one of the most illustrious acts of Divine Providence.

The following website is so named to attract the godless Left (but I repeat myself) where their lies and absurdities are soundly exposed.

Proof There Is No God

 

[Vastator]

.
how's that ...

your lame response only reinforces your beliefs are nothing more than substance for a book worm. same as the foolish conversion made by another relying on the pretext of a forged document. your claimed evidence, creation has nothing to do with christianity.

How do 24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise?

It’s proof. It’s evidence. Lots of proof and lots of evidence.

Prove 24,000 written manuscripts are forgeries.

Demonstrate that a single one one of them demonstrate proof of the god you're claiming it does. No need for 24,000 at once. Let's just take them one at a time. By your leave...

That’s easy. Read the NT. It’s full of proof that Jesus is God.

Lol! No. It isn't. That's like telling some one to read Harry Potter, or Lord of the Rings... If there are any specific offered in this book you'd like to offer; I'd be more than willing to look at the claims made... Start with proving that the "Jesus" portrayed in the Bible even existed. That would be a good start. Though a long, long way from proving any man was ever more than just that. A man.

24,000 written manuscripts prove he did and tell his account. That’s where we get it from.

Yes you constantly blather on about said manuscripts, and their quantity. Yet when invited to offer them up for scrutiny, one by one.... You suddenly lose your nerve, and change the subject. Like I've told you before in regard to the manuscripts you constantly reference, "offer them up". Each one. Let's see if even one proves the existence of a God...

 

[ding]

How do 24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise?

It’s proof. It’s evidence. Lots of proof and lots of evidence.

Prove 24,000 written manuscripts are forgeries.

Demonstrate that a single one one of them demonstrate proof of the god you're claiming it does. No need for 24,000 at once. Let's just take them one at a time. By your leave...

That’s easy. Read the NT. It’s full of proof that Jesus is God.

Lol! No. It isn't. That's like telling some one to read Harry Potter, or Lord of the Rings... If there are any specific offered in this book you'd like to offer; I'd be more than willing to look at the claims made... Start with proving that the "Jesus" portrayed in the Bible even existed. That would be a good start. Though a long, long way from proving any man was ever more than just that. A man.

24,000 written manuscripts prove he did and tell his account. That’s where we get it from.

Yes you constantly blather on about said manuscripts, and their quantity. Yet when invited to offer them up for scrutiny, one by one.... You suddenly lose your nerve, and change the subject. Like I've told you before in regard to the manuscripts you constantly reference, "offer them up". Each one. Let's see if even one proves the existence of a God...

I don’t need to scrutinize those manuscripts. The content is in the NT. Those manuscripts have been scrutinized by thousands of experts over nearly two millennia.

What you seem to fail to grasp is how incredible the number, timing and accuracy of the manuscripts are when compared to any other event in antiquity. On all counts, the number, timing and accuracy are unparalleled in antiquity. Nothing even comes close.

 

[anynameyouwish]

How do 24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise?

It’s proof. It’s evidence. Lots of proof and lots of evidence.

Prove 24,000 written manuscripts are forgeries.

Demonstrate that a single one one of them demonstrate proof of the god you're claiming it does. No need for 24,000 at once. Let's just take them one at a time. By your leave...

That’s easy. Read the NT. It’s full of proof that Jesus is God.

Lol! No. It isn't. That's like telling some one to read Harry Potter, or Lord of the Rings... If there are any specific offered in this book you'd like to offer; I'd be more than willing to look at the claims made... Start with proving that the "Jesus" portrayed in the Bible even existed. That would be a good start. Though a long, long way from proving any man was ever more than just that. A man.

24,000 written manuscripts prove he did and tell his account. That’s where we get it from.

Yes you constantly blather on about said manuscripts, and their quantity. Yet when invited to offer them up for scrutiny, one by one.... You suddenly lose your nerve, and change the subject. Like I've told you before in regard to the manuscripts you constantly reference, "offer them up". Each one. Let's see if even one proves the existence of a God...

"Let's see if even one proves the existence of a God..."

Can't be done.

 

[ChemEngineer]

Yes you (ding) constantly blather on about said manuscripts, and their quantity. Yet when invited to offer them up for scrutiny, one by one.... You suddenly lose your nerve, and change the subject. Like I've told you before in regard to the manuscripts you constantly reference, "offer them up". Each one. Let's see if even one proves the existence of a God...

Your errors are several and your haughtiness is typical of the godless Left.

1. There are millions of manuscripts, documents, files and ancient archives. That does not mean that they are available over the internet which is of rather recent development, thanks to the *genius* of Al Gore, *inventor* of the internet. Incidentally, this Leftist Intellectual flunked out of Vanderbilt Divinity School.

2. No amount of evidence ever suffices as "proof" to the godless Left.

3. Science doesn't do proofs. Didn't you even know that?

4. "Almost nothing is known for certain except in pure mathematics." - Carl Sagan

5. I refer you to The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, by Josh McDowell, The Devil's Delusion, by David Berlinski, Rare Earth by Ward and Brownlee, Illogical Atheism, by Bo Jinn and Irrational Atheism by Vox Day.

 

[Vastator]

Yes you (ding) constantly blather on about said manuscripts, and their quantity. Yet when invited to offer them up for scrutiny, one by one.... You suddenly lose your nerve, and change the subject. Like I've told you before in regard to the manuscripts you constantly reference, "offer them up". Each one. Let's see if even one proves the existence of a God...

Your errors are several and your haughtiness is typical of the godless Left.

1. There are millions of manuscripts, documents, files and ancient archives. That does not mean that they are available over the internet which is of rather recent development, thanks to the *genius* of Al Gore, *inventor* of the internet. Incidentally, this Leftist Intellectual flunked out of Vanderbilt Divinity School.

2. No amount of evidence ever suffices as "proof" to the godless Left.

3. Science doesn't do proofs. Didn't you even know that?

4. "Almost nothing is known for certain except in pure mathematics." - Carl Sagan

5. I refer you to The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, by Josh McDowell, The Devil's Delusion, by David Berlinski, Illogical Atheism, by Bo Jinn and Irrational Atheism by Vox Day.

It's amazing what you can tell about a person from how they waste their time...

 

[dblack]

2. No amount of evidence ever suffices as "proof" to the godless Left.

I'm godless, but not on the left. However, I wouldn't say I really require evidence or proof. I believe in lots of things that I can't prove, or don't have much evidence for. I just don't find the Christian story, or any of the other religions I've heard about, very compelling.

 

[Vastator]

2. No amount of evidence ever suffices as "proof" to the godless Left.

I'm godless, but not on the left. However, I wouldn't say I really require evidence or proof. I believe in lots of things that I can't prove, or don't have much evidence for. I just don't find the Christian story, or any of the other religions I've heard about, very compelling.

That's the problem with the religious right... They imagine that they're up against some wall that doesn't exist. They think they are as far right as one can be. Till people like me, you, Ayn Rand,and countless others turn to our left and tell them to simmer down....

 

[ChemEngineer]

2. No amount of evidence ever suffices as "proof" to the godless Left.

I'm godless, but not on the left. However, I wouldn't say I really require evidence or proof. I believe in lots of things that I can't prove, or don't have much evidence for. I just don't find the Christian story, or any of the other religions I've heard about, very compelling.

If you believe the atheist "story" is so "compelling," then why do only 30% of people raised in atheist families remain atheist?

If an army of monkeys were strumming on typewriters they might write all the books in the British Museum. – Physicist Arthur Eddington, The Nature of the Physical World, 1928

In fact, an army of monkeys could not complete a single coherent sentence. There are at least 50 different keys on a typewriter, so the possible number of combinations of a sentence 50 characters in length is 50^50, which equals 8.88 x 10^84, hopelessly beyond a reasonable definition of impossible, or 1 chance in 10^50 .

The Irrational Atheist by Vox Day
Irrational Atheism by Bo Jinn

 

[ChemEngineer]

Only 30% of atheists raised that way remain so:



“Four Big Bangs” That Kill Atheism
October 15, 2018 Daniel Currier

In a recent conversation with an atheist, I challenged him with four major topics his worldview can’t explain. I remembered them by using Frank Pastore's nice mental hook, the “four big bangs” that materialism can’t explain.

1. The “Cosmological Big Bang”
2. The “Biological Big Bang”
3. The “Psychological Big Bang”
4. The “Moral Big Bang”

When atheists try to explain these away, there seems to be much hand waving and “just so” stories. I love lines like, “sure, we don’t know, but at least we’re humble because we admit we don’t know” or “at least we don’t believe in the God of the gaps.”
But I digress, each of these four items are predicated upon something, almost magically, the popping into existence of things when the wheel of time is spun.

1) The “Cosmological Big Bang”
This is the most fundamental issue the materialists struggle to explain. I want to be clear, I’m not talking about when the universe started to exist, rather that it did start to exist. Things are much more likely not to exist than to exist. They can’t explain why.
This “just so story” sounds like this: the universe popped into existence, like “poof”, and then expanded through eons of time. Sometimes the claim is that there was nothing and that nothing turned into everything, as in “no thing” or “not anything” caused it all. Nothing is actually what rocks think about. That radical view takes much faith, more than I can muster. Really, are you afraid a pink elephant just appeared in your fridge and now is eating your salad?
Others say “nothing” means “something.” Don’t worry if this misnomer confuses you, the rest of us are confused too. If it’s “something,” please stop calling it “nothing,” right? They say this “nothing” was a singularity, or “all the matter in the universe smashed into an incredibly hot, infinitely dense speck of matter.” Or was this “nothing” some sort of quantum vacuum?
The problem becomes exponentially worse when we understand that the universe is finely tuned. To explain what I mean by fine tuning, think of the International Space Station, or even your car, mower, vacuum or microwave. Even the simplest of these are finely tuned. Many things need to be just right or else the machine does not work. There are many more ways for machines not to work than to work.

The universe is no different, except for it is exponentially more finely tuned, the most complex structure known. So many constants need to be just right. If not, the universe, all the elements, our solar system, our sun and our earth would not exist. In addition, life on earth would not exist if these constraints were not tuned to be just right.
Examples of some of these constants include things like the strength of the strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force, the electromagnetic force and the gravitational constant.
Scientist and agnostic Robert Jastrow, says this in “The Enchanted Loom”:
“Now we see how the astronomical evidence supports the Biblical view of the origin of the world. The details differ, but the essential elements in the astronomical and Biblical accounts of Genesis are the same: the chain of events leading to man commenced suddenly and sharply at a definite moment in time, in a flash of light and energy.”

We may disagree with some of his thoughts, but his main point is true; the evidence points to the biblical God. Simply put, from our experience, nothing ever makes something. Everything that begins to exist had a prior cause. Also, the fine tuning of the universe, like carburetors, cars and chainsaws, points to a fine tuner. Finely tuned things ultimately have an intelligent cause.

2) The “Biological Big Bang”
First dead matter, then alive matter, that’s the problem. Am I just to believe that a “poof,” composed of eons of time, created life? We could talk about the debunked “spontaneous generation” hypothesis from history to the modern “abiogenesis” version, but both have the same issue, lacking evidence.
Paul Davies, a well-known Astrobiologist, says this, “One of the great mysteries of life is how it began. What physical process transformed a nonliving mix of chemicals into something as complex as a living cell?” In a conversation on the Unbelievable radio show, he said we have no naturalistic theory for the origin of life. Anyone who has studied the origin of life will tell you the same. Life always comes from life. Life from non-life is a dead end, pardon the pun.
Also, you remember the fine tuning of the universe, right? Well, life too is finely tuned. From finely tuned cells, to finely tuned molecular machines, to finely tuned DNA code, to finely tuned molecules and all way to the finely tuned elements, life and its building blocks are finely tuned! Again, fine tuned things have an intelligent cause.
In addition, life’s microscopic machines are real machines, not metaphors. In biology, we find gears and motors, turbines and generators. These types of machines, from our experience, are always designed.
We must not forget the information contained in the cells. Again, from our universal experience, meaningful and functional information like this always comes from minds.

3) The “Psychological Big Bang”
The question is simple, how did consciousness arise? From a bacteria like cell, to a blob brain, to a mind?
Somehow we acquired the capacity for creativity and consciousness, design and beauty, self-awareness and self-reflection. From proverbs to poems, to meaning and methods, to emotions and economics.
We have mental abilities, and complementary physical abilities that other organisms don’t have. We love beauty, love the arts and love music. In addition to beauty appreciation, we can make it too.
We can do complex mathematics, we have a complex language and we have the ability to create complex technology.
Our technology, as a whole, not only needs intelligent minds to dream and design, but also proper bodies to create. But there is another level too, that is the topic of fire. Most of our technology requires fire in manufacturing. Very few things, if any, were created without the help of fire.
Here is the interesting part, we are the only creatures on earth that can use fire. Not only do our minds have the ability, but we also have the proper body to make and interact with fire.
Greased with the ingredient of eons of time, this all seems so much like a fairy-tale for grownups!

4) The “Morality Big Bang”
Let me get this straight, we were some type of amoral animals, and through another poof of evolutionary generations, we now possess moral sensibilities? Why is it wrong for one Bag-O-Chemicals to bump off another Bag-O-Chemicals? Why is it wrong to torture babies for the fun of it, and right to treat them kindly?
If our main purpose on earth is to just pass down our genes to the next generation, as many Darwinists say, why the “me too” movement and why is rape so wrong? Oh, am I not supposed to bring up that conundrum? Why do we know those things are bad, wrong and evil? Why is it more wrong for one to try to trip someone maliciously and fail than for one to accidentally trip another? Who cares?
In an atheistic universe, there is no ultimate morality, except for pragmatic reasons. The only reason we do what is “right” is because it helps us. But that does not make things good or evil! And the “it just helps me” line seems quite selfish, so why would that be good?
And why is it a good thing to pass on our genes to the next generation? First, who cares if our genetics are passed on or not passed on? Second, the point seems quite circular. It’s good because it’s good. We are reusing moral language to explain the existence of morality.

The Monstrous Mountain to Climb
Again, each of these four “big bangs” point to God. They are a monstrous mountain to climb, and when the atheist scientist scales them…well, let me quote Robert Jastrow again from his work “God and the Astronomers.”
“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”

 

[dblack]

If you believe the atheist "story" is so "compelling," then why do only 30% of people raised in atheist families remain atheist?

There is no atheist "story".

 

[ChemEngineer]

If you believe the atheist "story" is so "compelling," then why do only 30% of people raised in atheist families remain atheist?

There is no atheist "story".

Please, spare everyone.

1. There is no god.
2. Those who believe otherwise are stupid and anti-science.
3. Everything made itself from nothing.
4. Atheists are brilliant, rational and the world's greatest scientists. Just ask any of them.
5. Shut up, stupid. -
Signed,, Atheists

Incidentally, the Left has long condemned in most vitriolic and hateful ways "the religious right." Since some of you claim to be to the right, you must be very lonely. The overwhelming majority of atheists are Democrats. It figures that Democrats are as wrong in their politics and their science as they are in their rejection of Nature's God. But for you to follow and respect the Founding Fathers, as you claim you do, while rejecting their belief in God and Thanksgiving and Christmas and Benevolence, makes you as rare as transgenders.

Atheism Fails

 

[dblack]

If you believe the atheist "story" is so "compelling," then why do only 30% of people raised in atheist families remain atheist?

There is no atheist "story".

Please, spare everyone.

That's what I'm doing. I'm trying to spare everyone your misconceptions about atheism. I realize you want to build a strawman that you can knock down, but it bears no resemblance to reality.

Incidentally, the Left has long condemned in most vitriolic and hateful ways "the religious right." Since some of you claim to be to the right, you must be very lonely.

Politically speaking, that's quite true. Republicans have all but given on conservative values like limited government and free markets.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
how's that ...

your lame response only reinforces your beliefs are nothing more than substance for a book worm. same as the foolish conversion made by another relying on the pretext of a forged document. your claimed evidence, creation has nothing to do with christianity.

How do 24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise?

It’s proof. It’s evidence. Lots of proof and lots of evidence.

Prove 24,000 written manuscripts are forgeries.

.

Prove 24,000 written manuscripts are forgeries.

easy, not one of them is an original - those they burned.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

is this forgery why you became a christian, they were motivated in the 4th century how could you turn them down.

Prove it.

.

Prove it.

you did not answer the question -

It’s a trick question. They aren’t forgeries.

Where are the original texts that you believe? There aren’t any, right? So how can there be forgeries? Answer that question.

.

It’s a trick question. They aren’t forgeries.

Where are the original texts that you believe? There aren’t any, right? So how can there be forgeries? Answer that question.

what's a trick about it ...

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

the above is an obvious 4th century forgery, it is not universally available, found only in your book good luck if that is why you are a christian. compelling reason for the daft, what they were counting on.



the text of the religion of antiquity is spoken as prescribed by the Almighty - the triumph of good vs evil, the religion your christianity and the other desert religions have abandoned. the means for admission to the Everlasting.

 

[ChemEngineer]

The Holy Bible is thoroughly documented. Anyone claiming differently is simply lying.

The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, by Josh McDowell is about 900 pages of the best documented book I have ever read. It is replete with commentary and findings of professors and experts the world over.

P 156: D. James Kennedy and Jerry Newcombe examine what has happened in history that displays the influence of the (Christian) church. Here are “a few highlights” they cite (in their book What If Jesus Had Never Been Born?):


 Hospitals, which essentially began during the Middle Ages.

 Universities, which also began during the Middle Ages. In addition, most of the world’s greatest universities were started by Christians for Christian purposes.

 Literacy and education of the masses.

 Representative government, particularly as it has been seen in the American experiment.

 The separation of political powers.

 Civil liberties.

 The abolition of slavery, both in antiquity and in modern times.

 Modern science.

 The discovery of the New World by Columbus.

 Benevolence and charity; the Good Samaritan ethic.

 Higher standards of justice.

 The elevation of the common man.

 The high regard for human life.

 The civilizing of many barbarian and primitive cultures.

 The codifying and setting to writing of many of the world’s languages.

 The greater development of art and music. The inspiration for the greatest works of art.

 The countless changed lives transformed from liabilities into assets to society because of the gospel.

 The eternal salvation of countless souls.




In the nineteenth century, Charles Bradlaugh, a prominent atheist, challenged a Christian man to debate the validity of the claims of Christianity. The Christian, Hugh Price Hughes, was an active soul-winner who worked among the poor in the slums of London. Hughes told Bradlaugh he would agree on one condition.


Hughes said, “I propose to you that we each bring some concrete evidences of the validity of our beliefs in the form of men and women who have been redeemed from the lives of sin and shame by the influences of our teaching. I will bring 100 such men and women, and I challenge you to do the same.”


Hughes then said that if Bradlaugh couldn’t bring 100, then he could bring 50; if he couldn’t bring 50 then he could bring 20. He finally whittled the number down to one. All Bradlaugh had to do was find one person whose life was improved by atheism and Hughes - who would bring 100 people improved by Christ - would agree to debate him.

Bradlaugh withdrew!


P 157: When we consider the basic facts about Jesus’ life, the vast impact He has had is nothing short of incredible. A nineteenth-century writer put it this way:



He (Jesus) was born in an obscure village, the child of a peasant woman. He grew up in another village, where He worked in a carpenter shop until he was thirty. Then for three years He was an itinerant preacher. He never wrote a book. He never held an office. He never had a family or owned a home. He didn’t go to college. He never visited a big city. He never traveled two hundred miles from the place where He was born. He did none of the things that usually accompany greatness. He had no credentials but himself.



He was only thirty-three when the tide of public opinion turned against Him. His friends ran away. One of them denied Him. He was turned over to his enemies and went through the mockery of a trial. He was nailed to a cross between two thieves. While he was dying, His executioners gambled for His garments, the only property He had on earth. When He was dead, He was laid in a borrowed grave through the pity of a friend. Nineteen centuries have come and gone, and today He is the central figure of the human race.



All the armies that ever marched, all the navies that ever sailed, all the parliaments that ever sat, all the kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man on this earth as much as that one solitary life.

 

[james bond]

There is no atheist "story".

There are stupid atheist stories.