Happy Lee/Jackson day everyone

[nodoginnafight]

They withdrew from the Union, much like the Soviet satellite countries did from the Soviet Union, did you call those people traitors also? Does you opinion only apply to the folks you disagree with? Do you really believe a free people don't have a right to govern themselves as they chose?

The Soviets called them traitors.

You wanna secede? Knock yourself out. Don't expect the U.S. to recognize that right - you'll have to fight tooth and nail for it. If you win, you'll be remembered in your new nation as a patriot. If you lose - you'll be remembered as a terrorist and a traitor by everyone.

Right now, most just view you as a little off.

So your saying nobody is free and they have to forcibly extract from a tyrannical government and have no peaceful avenue. Good job comrade, good job.

Your peaceful avenue is the ballot box. I thought that was obvious.

 

[del]

The Soviets called them traitors.

You wanna secede? Knock yourself out. Don't expect the U.S. to recognize that right - you'll have to fight tooth and nail for it. If you win, you'll be remembered in your new nation as a patriot. If you lose - you'll be remembered as a terrorist and a traitor by everyone.

Right now, most just view you as a little off.

So your saying nobody is free and they have to forcibly extract from a tyrannical government and have no peaceful avenue. Good job comrade, good job.

Your peaceful avenue is the ballot box. I thought that was obvious.

it is obvious to intelligent people.

that may be the disconnect here.

 

[Oldguy]

Art III; Sec 3: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. (US Constitution)

Anybody care to explain how what Lee and Jackson did wasn't treason? Or, explain why we should honor them?

I think I'll go with Our Founding Document, thanks though. Specifically the bold portions. Especially considering the fact that the Constitutiion is not the document we Founded this nation on and has had it's meanings changed so often as to make it pretty worthless as a refrence to this nations Founding Principles. It means whatever the current batch of whores on the Supreme Court says it means today, whereas this Document, the one we wrote to found this nation, means exactly what it says.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.

Carry on Troop.

But, the Declaration of Independence is not the foundation of the law we live under. The Constitution is.

You either respect and revere the Constitution and the rule of law, or you put yourself outside the protections enshrined in the Constitution and become a criminal. In fact, you no longer have the right to call yourself an American.

 

[Oldguy]

Who the hell is Lee/Jackson?

Perhaps he means some men that committed treason to the United States of America.

Actually considering the fact that it was the Confederacy that held to the Constitution, and not the Federal Govt, there was no treason. NY, RI and VA would NOT ratify the Constitution unless they retained their right to secede from the Union being formed at their discretion. No objections where written in thus all three states ratified the document with that right in mind, and a right granted one state is automatically granted to all by that Constitution. Meaning the Confederate States had the legal right to secede. It was the Federal government that committed treason by it's immoral and un-Constitutional invasion of the Sovereign State of Virginia which started the War of Northern Aggression.

Uh...no. The Civil War started when southern troops fired on Ft. Sumner, in Charleston, SC. That was an act of war committed against every state in the Union, the very Constitutional definition of treason. That a few other states aligned themselves with SC in their treason was their poor judgment.

 

[Oldguy]

Though technically it was the 18th this year, my son had no school friday, we are celebrating the entire 4 day weekend in remembrence.

You should be arrested for child abuse.

I have to agree that teaching a child to celebrate a traitorous event hinges on child abuse.

Oh, please. Now you're sounding as radically insane as the Nutter's.