Gun sales plunge for Smith & Wesson: Can Gun Nutters Save Smith & Wesson? Having 100 Guns, too few?

[skookerasbil]

Nobody cares. Its 2018....gun grabbing has never been more unpopular.

Hogg? Disappeared.

Kid marches? Did they walk to the coast and just keep going?

Gun grabbers get all giddy when a blip on the landscape occurs, but it disappears faster than a Giancarlo Stanton home run leaves the yard.

 

[skookerasbil]

Like I said, Smith m&ps are great Entry level sporting rifles.
Match grade is not expected with entry level firearms. I sell Smith m&p sports for $469, out of the box they shoot 1moa if the shooter is up to it.
Liability issues with Smith? I am sure they have it covered... they can shoot both cartridges just fine.

The reason why they shouldn't has been brought to your attention. As of now, you are culpable should anything happen to anyone firing one of these that you have sold if anyone fires a 556 out of it. S$W might be able to afford millions but I doubt if you can.

You being an metallurgy expert...

I don't expect you to understand since you say that there is a difference between the AR and the M-16. Those of us in the know know that the only difference is the amount of money spent on the gun. And your idea of an AR is strictly bargain basement. I would venture to call them the "Saturday Night Specials" of the ARs. I, personally, like the better quality with the Mil Specs which can safely handle the hotter 556 loads without fear of either damaging the weapon or myself. You sure don't sound like much of a gun dealer outside one that deals out of his car's truck at 2 am in the morning.

Lol
Na, like I said s&w m&p15 sport is a great entry level sporting rifle.
It can easily shoot 1moa out of the box if the shooter is able, An above average barrel.
Obviously it’s no where near military grade... it is very able to shoot both cartridges safely.
But, believe what you want... it’s the progressives way.

Oh, I see. It's Progressive to want safe firearms. It's progressive to demand that the sales pitch for a firearm is truthful. It's Progressive to demand that we get safe weapons? Hate to break it to you but that's Capitalism at it's best. What you want is to make sales to stupid people by misrepresenting the cheap junk as something it's not. Here is what Mil Spec Means for the firing chamber which the MP15 doesn't meet.

The rifle you are pushing has a SAAMI chamber. Which means it's like the traditional chamber. It's tight against the bullet. No room. SAAMI is the standard that all civilian guns have to meet. And the 223 was created in 1962 to meet that criteria and has been frozen to that standard ever since. The Chamber is made as small as possible to utilize as much energy as possible from the lower powered 223 round.

Them we have the Mil Spec. At first glance, this seems inferior because it's not as tight. The reason it's not as tight, it allows more space for gas expansion before the bullet exits the chamber. The Pressure is much higher than the 223. This does not comply with the SAAMI standard and has been changed many times since 1959 when it was first introduced. It's constantly been updated for maximum efficiency.

Can you safely fire a 223 in a mil spec 556 chamber? Sure you can but the downside is, you will lose accuracy and velocity compared to firing it out of a SAAMI chamber that has been optimized for the 223. That extra headspace will bleed off pressure that should be used to propel the bullet down the barrel.

Can you safely fire a 556 Nato Round out of a 223 SAAMI chamber? Most of the time. I doubt if it will ever blow up in your face. But it will slowly degrade your barrel over time. And it will sooner or later have an annoying problem of popping primers into the mechanism which will jam the gun. The popped primer isn't too unsafe, it's just damned annoying. The more you fire that 556 through your SAAMI chamber the more it's going to start happening as the barrel (Chamber) wears. When this happens, it's time to change out your barrel.

The gun that Dipstick is pushing is a SAAMI. It's the bottom of the barrel. If you want a much better rifle that will last longer, shoot straighter, and more, look for these other qualities. But you will have to pay for them.

.223 Wylde, Anything rated as match, Anything rated as NATO. None of these seem to have any trouble with the 556. But the 223 Wilde and anything rated Match also has no trouble with the 223 either. The Nato is specifically tuned to the 556 Nato so it's going to degrade a bit with the 223. The good news is, you might, and I strongly don't suggest this, might be able to fit one of the better barrels to the MP15 rifle. I would suggest you also change out the bolt as well to a better bolt. By the time you get a decent rifle by doing this, you could have bought a decent one for the same amount of money without having to modify it.

When I buy a gun, I expect it to last the next 100 years or so. My Great Grandkids can fire it up long after I am gone and it works just like it did the day it came out of the factory. I don't need to be spending hundreds of dollars on something that will be constantly having to replace parts on to keep it servicable. These are Toasters which I throw away when they break. And they certainly should not be made in China. If it's made in America, I expect quality and should be required to pay for quality. All of a sudden, that Mini-14 doesn't look so bad anymore even if it is a bit more cumbersome to change the mag out on. The Mini-14 costs not much more than the junk AR but it's a 100 year or better gun. I respect that.

So is there a difference between an AR-15 and a Mini-14? For the money, you bet. Buy the Mini-14 and get something your Great Grand Kids will enjoy.

Lol....might as well have written this in Arabic given the understanding of "assault" weapons by the modern progressive.

A month ago, one of these Meatheads was actually making fun of a shotgun being used for home defense because he said he had been shot at close range by a shotgun and only "knocked down"

Ghèeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyy!

No elaboration needed for my second amendment supporting pals.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Nobody cares. Its 2018....gun grabbing has never been more unpopular.

Hogg? Disappeared.

Kid marches? Did they walk to the coast and just keep going?

Gun grabbers get all giddy when a blip on the landscape occurs, but it disappears faster than a Giancarlo Stanton home run leaves the yard.

Keep making these stupid assumptions and lose elections. Texas is on the verge of becoming a purple state instead of a solid red state and that is in 2018. By 2020, there is a more than even chance that it will go blue for President providing the Dems present something short of a convicted axe murderer for a candidate. And the facts remain, if the REps lose Texas, they can even carry Florida and all the Rust Belt but they will lost the election in 2020. So don't sit on your laurels (ass) and say it can't happen. Either get busy cleaning up the Republican Party or get ready to go fishing.

 

[Weatherman2020]

American Outdoor Brands, the gun maker that owns the iconic Smith & Wesson line of firearms, reported plunging sales on Wednesday.
The company said that quarterly sales dropped 25% compared to the fourth quarter of last year, and profit plummeted more than 70%.

Sales for the full year were down 33% from the year before, and profit plunged 84%.
Gun sales plunge for Smith & Wesson

Die of fast!

OBAMA, WHERE ARE YOU IN OUR DESPERATE HOUR????

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The reason why they shouldn't has been brought to your attention. As of now, you are culpable should anything happen to anyone firing one of these that you have sold if anyone fires a 556 out of it. S$W might be able to afford millions but I doubt if you can.

You being an metallurgy expert...

I don't expect you to understand since you say that there is a difference between the AR and the M-16. Those of us in the know know that the only difference is the amount of money spent on the gun. And your idea of an AR is strictly bargain basement. I would venture to call them the "Saturday Night Specials" of the ARs. I, personally, like the better quality with the Mil Specs which can safely handle the hotter 556 loads without fear of either damaging the weapon or myself. You sure don't sound like much of a gun dealer outside one that deals out of his car's truck at 2 am in the morning.

Lol
Na, like I said s&w m&p15 sport is a great entry level sporting rifle.
It can easily shoot 1moa out of the box if the shooter is able, An above average barrel.
Obviously it’s no where near military grade... it is very able to shoot both cartridges safely.
But, believe what you want... it’s the progressives way.

Oh, I see. It's Progressive to want safe firearms. It's progressive to demand that the sales pitch for a firearm is truthful. It's Progressive to demand that we get safe weapons? Hate to break it to you but that's Capitalism at it's best. What you want is to make sales to stupid people by misrepresenting the cheap junk as something it's not. Here is what Mil Spec Means for the firing chamber which the MP15 doesn't meet.

The rifle you are pushing has a SAAMI chamber. Which means it's like the traditional chamber. It's tight against the bullet. No room. SAAMI is the standard that all civilian guns have to meet. And the 223 was created in 1962 to meet that criteria and has been frozen to that standard ever since. The Chamber is made as small as possible to utilize as much energy as possible from the lower powered 223 round.

Them we have the Mil Spec. At first glance, this seems inferior because it's not as tight. The reason it's not as tight, it allows more space for gas expansion before the bullet exits the chamber. The Pressure is much higher than the 223. This does not comply with the SAAMI standard and has been changed many times since 1959 when it was first introduced. It's constantly been updated for maximum efficiency.

Can you safely fire a 223 in a mil spec 556 chamber? Sure you can but the downside is, you will lose accuracy and velocity compared to firing it out of a SAAMI chamber that has been optimized for the 223. That extra headspace will bleed off pressure that should be used to propel the bullet down the barrel.

Can you safely fire a 556 Nato Round out of a 223 SAAMI chamber? Most of the time. I doubt if it will ever blow up in your face. But it will slowly degrade your barrel over time. And it will sooner or later have an annoying problem of popping primers into the mechanism which will jam the gun. The popped primer isn't too unsafe, it's just damned annoying. The more you fire that 556 through your SAAMI chamber the more it's going to start happening as the barrel (Chamber) wears. When this happens, it's time to change out your barrel.

The gun that Dipstick is pushing is a SAAMI. It's the bottom of the barrel. If you want a much better rifle that will last longer, shoot straighter, and more, look for these other qualities. But you will have to pay for them.

.223 Wylde, Anything rated as match, Anything rated as NATO. None of these seem to have any trouble with the 556. But the 223 Wilde and anything rated Match also has no trouble with the 223 either. The Nato is specifically tuned to the 556 Nato so it's going to degrade a bit with the 223. The good news is, you might, and I strongly don't suggest this, might be able to fit one of the better barrels to the MP15 rifle. I would suggest you also change out the bolt as well to a better bolt. By the time you get a decent rifle by doing this, you could have bought a decent one for the same amount of money without having to modify it.

When I buy a gun, I expect it to last the next 100 years or so. My Great Grandkids can fire it up long after I am gone and it works just like it did the day it came out of the factory. I don't need to be spending hundreds of dollars on something that will be constantly having to replace parts on to keep it servicable. These are Toasters which I throw away when they break. And they certainly should not be made in China. If it's made in America, I expect quality and should be required to pay for quality. All of a sudden, that Mini-14 doesn't look so bad anymore even if it is a bit more cumbersome to change the mag out on. The Mini-14 costs not much more than the junk AR but it's a 100 year or better gun. I respect that.

So is there a difference between an AR-15 and a Mini-14? For the money, you bet. Buy the Mini-14 and get something your Great Grand Kids will enjoy.

Lol....might as well have written this in Arabic given the understanding of "assault" weapons by the modern progressive.

A month ago, one of these Meatheads was actually making fun of a shotgun being used for home defense because he said he had been shot at close range by a shotgun and only "knocked down"

Ghèeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyy!

No elaboration needed for my second amendment supporting pals.

What Rustfor brains wants you to believe is that I am a gun grabber. I support the Shotgun for home defense. There is nothing more frightening or loud than the racking of a Model 870 Shotgun in the dark. Not only all illegal activities stop instantly, but so does a few heart beats. Your intruder can be armed with an AR-15 but he's frozen in place for a bit. Flight becomes his only thought at that point. He just brought a knife to a gunfight.

My Shotgun is loaded with a 3in Mag #4 shot. At 20 feet, you will be knocked down. But you won't be getting back up without either pall bearers or serious medical attention. The good news is, in that situation, the firing of it probably won't be necessary. Whatever hole they slowly came in, they will be quickly exit from. Rather than shoot, just calmly say, "I think you outta' leave". I have too many years in the Military and don't need to add to my score card anymore. My Cajones are just the right size.

As for the "Assault Rifle", the AR is quite capable of going to war. That is exactly what it was built for. It has all the features to be used by a scared kid filled full of adrenaline while under fire. it's not a squad weapon. It won't be used in any form of Auto Setting in Combat even if it had it. The M-16 has the 3 shot setting but it's almost never used in combat. The 3 shot is pretty damned worthless. So that means that for normal combat use, there really isn't any difference using an AR-15 or a M-16A-4. What makes it a sport rifle or an assault rifle is how it's used. The fact that it can be used either way is what scares many. This is why I push the Mini-14. It doesn't have the qualities of a combat rifle. Otherwise the M-14 would still be in service and the M-16 or AR-15 Model 601 would have never seen the light of day with the military.

 

[joaquinmiller]

I don't know why they keep calling it an 'accident'. If you had seen the look in that tiny shooter's eyes....

He wasn't concerned about the type of weapon. In fact, when he's old enough to talk, he'll tell you a Saturday Night Special makes dead just fine.

2-Year-Old Boy Accidentally Shoots, Kills Mom In Walmart

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I don't know why they keep calling it an 'accident'. If you had seen the look in that tiny shooter's eyes....

He wasn't concerned about the type of weapon. In fact, when he's old enough to talk, he'll tell you a Saturday Night Special makes dead just fine.

2-Year-Old Boy Accidentally Shoots, Kills Mom In Walmart

Ah, the darwin factor. Just a little too late for her, that's all. Having her purse with the weapon within easy access for a 2 year old is just plain stupid. Almost as stupid as having to shop at Walley World.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If S&W would be on the leading edge of firearms design like they were with their venerable revolvers and quit trying to produce guns other companies are making, they'd do just fine.

Nothing could beat their Model 29 .44 magnum with a 6" barrel.

The smith&wessen m&p15 sport is a very fine entry level sporting rifle...
And the m&p handguns are excellent, better than glocks.

S&W claims this can shoot either the 556 nato or the 223 rounds. DO NOT FIRE THE 556 NATO ROUNDS. I notice a flaw in their advertising where it hints at mil specs. Instead of outright saying Mil Spec, it says Mil Spec Sized. It doesn't talk about the head size that the 556 requires over the 223 to make it safe to fire the 556. It doesn't talk about the extra chromium in areas that makes it safe to fire the 556 rounds. If it was Mil Spec it would proudly state that. It doesn't. Therefore, it's just another cheap piece of junk for under 800 bucks.

Nonsense.

It’s perfectly safe to use 5.56 NATO rounds in the M&P 15 series of carbines.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If S&W would be on the leading edge of firearms design like they were with their venerable revolvers and quit trying to produce guns other companies are making, they'd do just fine.

Nothing could beat their Model 29 .44 magnum with a 6" barrel.

The smith&wessen m&p15 sport is a very fine entry level sporting rifle...
And the m&p handguns are excellent, better than glocks.

S&W claims this can shoot either the 556 nato or the 223 rounds. DO NOT FIRE THE 556 NATO ROUNDS. I notice a flaw in their advertising where it hints at mil specs. Instead of outright saying Mil Spec, it says Mil Spec Sized. It doesn't talk about the head size that the 556 requires over the 223 to make it safe to fire the 556. It doesn't talk about the extra chromium in areas that makes it safe to fire the 556 rounds. If it was Mil Spec it would proudly state that. It doesn't. Therefore, it's just another cheap piece of junk for under 800 bucks.

Nonsense.

It’s perfectly safe to use 5.56 NATO rounds in the M&P 15 series of carbines.

Your credibility slip is showing. Unless it specifically uses the term Nato, Mil Spec or Match then it's chamber is SAAMI which is only for the 223 and not the Nato 556. I imagine there might be some downloaded 556 ammo out there but why pay extra for something special that would perform exactly like the cheaper 223 remington ammo. I already showed the difference between the SAAMI chamber and the Mil Spec or Nato rated chamber. You don't like it, fine. Don't pay attention.

 

[Rustic]

Like I said, Smith m&ps are great Entry level sporting rifles.
Match grade is not expected with entry level firearms. I sell Smith m&p sports for $469, out of the box they shoot 1moa if the shooter is up to it.
Liability issues with Smith? I am sure they have it covered... they can shoot both cartridges just fine.

The reason why they shouldn't has been brought to your attention. As of now, you are culpable should anything happen to anyone firing one of these that you have sold if anyone fires a 556 out of it. S$W might be able to afford millions but I doubt if you can.

You being an metallurgy expert...

I don't expect you to understand since you say that there is a difference between the AR and the M-16. Those of us in the know know that the only difference is the amount of money spent on the gun. And your idea of an AR is strictly bargain basement. I would venture to call them the "Saturday Night Specials" of the ARs. I, personally, like the better quality with the Mil Specs which can safely handle the hotter 556 loads without fear of either damaging the weapon or myself. You sure don't sound like much of a gun dealer outside one that deals out of his car's truck at 2 am in the morning.

Lol
Na, like I said s&w m&p15 sport is a great entry level sporting rifle.
It can easily shoot 1moa out of the box if the shooter is able, An above average barrel.
Obviously it’s no where near military grade... it is very able to shoot both cartridges safely.
But, believe what you want... it’s the progressives way.

Oh, I see. It's Progressive to want safe firearms. It's progressive to demand that the sales pitch for a firearm is truthful. It's Progressive to demand that we get safe weapons? Hate to break it to you but that's Capitalism at it's best. What you want is to make sales to stupid people by misrepresenting the cheap junk as something it's not. Here is what Mil Spec Means for the firing chamber which the MP15 doesn't meet.

The rifle you are pushing has a SAAMI chamber. Which means it's like the traditional chamber. It's tight against the bullet. No room. SAAMI is the standard that all civilian guns have to meet. And the 223 was created in 1962 to meet that criteria and has been frozen to that standard ever since. The Chamber is made as small as possible to utilize as much energy as possible from the lower powered 223 round.

Them we have the Mil Spec. At first glance, this seems inferior because it's not as tight. The reason it's not as tight, it allows more space for gas expansion before the bullet exits the chamber. The Pressure is much higher than the 223. This does not comply with the SAAMI standard and has been changed many times since 1959 when it was first introduced. It's constantly been updated for maximum efficiency.

Can you safely fire a 223 in a mil spec 556 chamber? Sure you can but the downside is, you will lose accuracy and velocity compared to firing it out of a SAAMI chamber that has been optimized for the 223. That extra headspace will bleed off pressure that should be used to propel the bullet down the barrel.

Can you safely fire a 556 Nato Round out of a 223 SAAMI chamber? Most of the time. I doubt if it will ever blow up in your face. But it will slowly degrade your barrel over time. And it will sooner or later have an annoying problem of popping primers into the mechanism which will jam the gun. The popped primer isn't too unsafe, it's just damned annoying. The more you fire that 556 through your SAAMI chamber the more it's going to start happening as the barrel (Chamber) wears. When this happens, it's time to change out your barrel.

The gun that Dipstick is pushing is a SAAMI. It's the bottom of the barrel. If you want a much better rifle that will last longer, shoot straighter, and more, look for these other qualities. But you will have to pay for them.

.223 Wylde, Anything rated as match, Anything rated as NATO. None of these seem to have any trouble with the 556. But the 223 Wilde and anything rated Match also has no trouble with the 223 either. The Nato is specifically tuned to the 556 Nato so it's going to degrade a bit with the 223. The good news is, you might, and I strongly don't suggest this, might be able to fit one of the better barrels to the MP15 rifle. I would suggest you also change out the bolt as well to a better bolt. By the time you get a decent rifle by doing this, you could have bought a decent one for the same amount of money without having to modify it.

When I buy a gun, I expect it to last the next 100 years or so. My Great Grandkids can fire it up long after I am gone and it works just like it did the day it came out of the factory. I don't need to be spending hundreds of dollars on something that will be constantly having to replace parts on to keep it servicable. These are Toasters which I throw away when they break. And they certainly should not be made in China. If it's made in America, I expect quality and should be required to pay for quality. All of a sudden, that Mini-14 doesn't look so bad anymore even if it is a bit more cumbersome to change the mag out on. The Mini-14 costs not much more than the junk AR but it's a 100 year or better gun. I respect that.

So is there a difference between an AR-15 and a Mini-14? For the money, you bet. Buy the Mini-14 and get something your Great Grand Kids will enjoy.

“generally, shooting .223 through a 5.56 chamber results in lower pressure, but still functions (safely). Firing 5.56 through a .223 chamber, however, results in somewhat higher pressures. Although the differences aren’t massive (~5% in the previously referenced study), extensive firing of 5.56 through a .223 chamber could lead to over-pressure malfunctions, such as popped primers or blown cartridge case heads and other firearm malfunctions”

 

[Rustic]

If S&W would be on the leading edge of firearms design like they were with their venerable revolvers and quit trying to produce guns other companies are making, they'd do just fine.

Nothing could beat their Model 29 .44 magnum with a 6" barrel.

The smith&wessen m&p15 sport is a very fine entry level sporting rifle...
And the m&p handguns are excellent, better than glocks.

S&W claims this can shoot either the 556 nato or the 223 rounds. DO NOT FIRE THE 556 NATO ROUNDS. I notice a flaw in their advertising where it hints at mil specs. Instead of outright saying Mil Spec, it says Mil Spec Sized. It doesn't talk about the head size that the 556 requires over the 223 to make it safe to fire the 556. It doesn't talk about the extra chromium in areas that makes it safe to fire the 556 rounds. If it was Mil Spec it would proudly state that. It doesn't. Therefore, it's just another cheap piece of junk for under 800 bucks.

Nonsense.

It’s perfectly safe to use 5.56 NATO rounds in the M&P 15 series of carbines.

This true, the engineers at smith have made sure...

 

[Rustic]

If S&W would be on the leading edge of firearms design like they were with their venerable revolvers and quit trying to produce guns other companies are making, they'd do just fine.

Nothing could beat their Model 29 .44 magnum with a 6" barrel.

The smith&wessen m&p15 sport is a very fine entry level sporting rifle...
And the m&p handguns are excellent, better than glocks.

S&W claims this can shoot either the 556 nato or the 223 rounds. DO NOT FIRE THE 556 NATO ROUNDS. I notice a flaw in their advertising where it hints at mil specs. Instead of outright saying Mil Spec, it says Mil Spec Sized. It doesn't talk about the head size that the 556 requires over the 223 to make it safe to fire the 556. It doesn't talk about the extra chromium in areas that makes it safe to fire the 556 rounds. If it was Mil Spec it would proudly state that. It doesn't. Therefore, it's just another cheap piece of junk for under 800 bucks.

Nonsense.

It’s perfectly safe to use 5.56 NATO rounds in the M&P 15 series of carbines.

Your credibility slip is showing. Unless it specifically uses the term Nato, Mil Spec or Match then it's chamber is SAAMI which is only for the 223 and not the Nato 556. I imagine there might be some downloaded 556 ammo out there but why pay extra for something special that would perform exactly like the cheaper 223 remington ammo. I already showed the difference between the SAAMI chamber and the Mil Spec or Nato rated chamber. You don't like it, fine. Don't pay attention.

The engineers at smith disagree, m&p15 sport is a entry level sporting rifle that can fire both. Smith ARs have a great reputation...

 

[Rustic]

Nobody cares. Its 2018....gun grabbing has never been more unpopular.

Hogg? Disappeared.

Kid marches? Did they walk to the coast and just keep going?

Gun grabbers get all giddy when a blip on the landscape occurs, but it disappears faster than a Giancarlo Stanton home run leaves the yard.

Keep making these stupid assumptions and lose elections. Texas is on the verge of becoming a purple state instead of a solid red state and that is in 2018. By 2020, there is a more than even chance that it will go blue for President providing the Dems present something short of a convicted axe murderer for a candidate. And the facts remain, if the REps lose Texas, they can even carry Florida and all the Rust Belt but they will lost the election in 2020. So don't sit on your laurels (ass) and say it can't happen. Either get busy cleaning up the Republican Party or get ready to go fishing.

Fairytale

 

[Rustic]

You being an metallurgy expert...

I don't expect you to understand since you say that there is a difference between the AR and the M-16. Those of us in the know know that the only difference is the amount of money spent on the gun. And your idea of an AR is strictly bargain basement. I would venture to call them the "Saturday Night Specials" of the ARs. I, personally, like the better quality with the Mil Specs which can safely handle the hotter 556 loads without fear of either damaging the weapon or myself. You sure don't sound like much of a gun dealer outside one that deals out of his car's truck at 2 am in the morning.

Lol
Na, like I said s&w m&p15 sport is a great entry level sporting rifle.
It can easily shoot 1moa out of the box if the shooter is able, An above average barrel.
Obviously it’s no where near military grade... it is very able to shoot both cartridges safely.
But, believe what you want... it’s the progressives way.

Oh, I see. It's Progressive to want safe firearms. It's progressive to demand that the sales pitch for a firearm is truthful. It's Progressive to demand that we get safe weapons? Hate to break it to you but that's Capitalism at it's best. What you want is to make sales to stupid people by misrepresenting the cheap junk as something it's not. Here is what Mil Spec Means for the firing chamber which the MP15 doesn't meet.

The rifle you are pushing has a SAAMI chamber. Which means it's like the traditional chamber. It's tight against the bullet. No room. SAAMI is the standard that all civilian guns have to meet. And the 223 was created in 1962 to meet that criteria and has been frozen to that standard ever since. The Chamber is made as small as possible to utilize as much energy as possible from the lower powered 223 round.

Them we have the Mil Spec. At first glance, this seems inferior because it's not as tight. The reason it's not as tight, it allows more space for gas expansion before the bullet exits the chamber. The Pressure is much higher than the 223. This does not comply with the SAAMI standard and has been changed many times since 1959 when it was first introduced. It's constantly been updated for maximum efficiency.

Can you safely fire a 223 in a mil spec 556 chamber? Sure you can but the downside is, you will lose accuracy and velocity compared to firing it out of a SAAMI chamber that has been optimized for the 223. That extra headspace will bleed off pressure that should be used to propel the bullet down the barrel.

Can you safely fire a 556 Nato Round out of a 223 SAAMI chamber? Most of the time. I doubt if it will ever blow up in your face. But it will slowly degrade your barrel over time. And it will sooner or later have an annoying problem of popping primers into the mechanism which will jam the gun. The popped primer isn't too unsafe, it's just damned annoying. The more you fire that 556 through your SAAMI chamber the more it's going to start happening as the barrel (Chamber) wears. When this happens, it's time to change out your barrel.

The gun that Dipstick is pushing is a SAAMI. It's the bottom of the barrel. If you want a much better rifle that will last longer, shoot straighter, and more, look for these other qualities. But you will have to pay for them.

.223 Wylde, Anything rated as match, Anything rated as NATO. None of these seem to have any trouble with the 556. But the 223 Wilde and anything rated Match also has no trouble with the 223 either. The Nato is specifically tuned to the 556 Nato so it's going to degrade a bit with the 223. The good news is, you might, and I strongly don't suggest this, might be able to fit one of the better barrels to the MP15 rifle. I would suggest you also change out the bolt as well to a better bolt. By the time you get a decent rifle by doing this, you could have bought a decent one for the same amount of money without having to modify it.

When I buy a gun, I expect it to last the next 100 years or so. My Great Grandkids can fire it up long after I am gone and it works just like it did the day it came out of the factory. I don't need to be spending hundreds of dollars on something that will be constantly having to replace parts on to keep it servicable. These are Toasters which I throw away when they break. And they certainly should not be made in China. If it's made in America, I expect quality and should be required to pay for quality. All of a sudden, that Mini-14 doesn't look so bad anymore even if it is a bit more cumbersome to change the mag out on. The Mini-14 costs not much more than the junk AR but it's a 100 year or better gun. I respect that.

So is there a difference between an AR-15 and a Mini-14? For the money, you bet. Buy the Mini-14 and get something your Great Grand Kids will enjoy.

Lol....might as well have written this in Arabic given the understanding of "assault" weapons by the modern progressive.

A month ago, one of these Meatheads was actually making fun of a shotgun being used for home defense because he said he had been shot at close range by a shotgun and only "knocked down"

Ghèeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyy!

No elaboration needed for my second amendment supporting pals.

What Rustfor brains wants you to believe is that I am a gun grabber. I support the Shotgun for home defense. There is nothing more frightening or loud than the racking of a Model 870 Shotgun in the dark. Not only all illegal activities stop instantly, but so does a few heart beats. Your intruder can be armed with an AR-15 but he's frozen in place for a bit. Flight becomes his only thought at that point. He just brought a knife to a gunfight.

My Shotgun is loaded with a 3in Mag #4 shot. At 20 feet, you will be knocked down. But you won't be getting back up without either pall bearers or serious medical attention. The good news is, in that situation, the firing of it probably won't be necessary. Whatever hole they slowly came in, they will be quickly exit from. Rather than shoot, just calmly say, "I think you outta' leave". I have too many years in the Military and don't need to add to my score card anymore. My Cajones are just the right size.

As for the "Assault Rifle", the AR is quite capable of going to war. That is exactly what it was built for. It has all the features to be used by a scared kid filled full of adrenaline while under fire. it's not a squad weapon. It won't be used in any form of Auto Setting in Combat even if it had it. The M-16 has the 3 shot setting but it's almost never used in combat. The 3 shot is pretty damned worthless. So that means that for normal combat use, there really isn't any difference using an AR-15 or a M-16A-4. What makes it a sport rifle or an assault rifle is how it's used. The fact that it can be used either way is what scares many. This is why I push the Mini-14. It doesn't have the qualities of a combat rifle. Otherwise the M-14 would still be in service and the M-16 or AR-15 Model 601 would have never seen the light of day with the military.

Daryl the gun grabber, your opinion is just that... your opinion.
There is a reason entry level ARs are America’s best selling sporting rifles... they are a great value and do check all of the boxes.

 

[toobfreak]

American Outdoor Brands, the gun maker that owns the iconic Smith & Wesson line of firearms, reported plunging sales on Wednesday.
The company said that quarterly sales dropped 25% compared to the fourth quarter of last year, and profit plummeted more than 70%.

Sales for the full year were down 33% from the year before, and profit plunged 84%.
Gun sales plunge for Smith & Wesson

Die of fast!

What a dolt like you wouldn't know is that gun and ammo sales have been through the roof for years thanks to Obama. The drop now is simply things going back to normal.

The figures are in. For the year of 2017, it shows that there was a 11 percent drop in gun sales. This isn't just a few states. It's in all states. All States show a reduction. That's an 11 percent drop from 2016. Yet the gun manufacturers all claim their sales have increased. Well, not according to the NICS that closely follows the gun background checks. Looks like the Gun Manufacturers are doing a bit of voodoo hype on this one.

The reports of the Gun Bonanza Sales in 2016 is probably incorrect as well. The Right Wing News claims record gun sales in 2016 yet the gun sellers tell that their gun sales have gone down. Another bit of PR voodoo.

So it looks like gun sales went down in 2016 and I can't find that figure accurately and it went down another 11% in 2017. And the 2017 11% loss is the worst it has been in decades. Even with the mass shootings, the More Guns fear is working less and less every day.

Hey STUPIDO:

How does any of that conflict with what I said? Yes, I remember, you're another flaming jackass that couldn't fight his way out of a conversation with a 5th grader. Oh and by the way, gun violence and shootings are WAY DOWN. And I won't even try to guess what your reference to "more guns fears" was trying to claim. Another 5 minutes of my life wasted on USMB talking to an itinerant idiot.

Translating your post, "I lose once again". Get used to it. You gun nutters usually do.

Jesus, you can't even be original. You are like the third person to start stealing my "translation" format from me! BTW, if you were trying to write grammatical English, the proper syntax is: I LOST once again.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The reason why they shouldn't has been brought to your attention. As of now, you are culpable should anything happen to anyone firing one of these that you have sold if anyone fires a 556 out of it. S$W might be able to afford millions but I doubt if you can.

You being an metallurgy expert...

I don't expect you to understand since you say that there is a difference between the AR and the M-16. Those of us in the know know that the only difference is the amount of money spent on the gun. And your idea of an AR is strictly bargain basement. I would venture to call them the "Saturday Night Specials" of the ARs. I, personally, like the better quality with the Mil Specs which can safely handle the hotter 556 loads without fear of either damaging the weapon or myself. You sure don't sound like much of a gun dealer outside one that deals out of his car's truck at 2 am in the morning.

Lol
Na, like I said s&w m&p15 sport is a great entry level sporting rifle.
It can easily shoot 1moa out of the box if the shooter is able, An above average barrel.
Obviously it’s no where near military grade... it is very able to shoot both cartridges safely.
But, believe what you want... it’s the progressives way.

Oh, I see. It's Progressive to want safe firearms. It's progressive to demand that the sales pitch for a firearm is truthful. It's Progressive to demand that we get safe weapons? Hate to break it to you but that's Capitalism at it's best. What you want is to make sales to stupid people by misrepresenting the cheap junk as something it's not. Here is what Mil Spec Means for the firing chamber which the MP15 doesn't meet.

The rifle you are pushing has a SAAMI chamber. Which means it's like the traditional chamber. It's tight against the bullet. No room. SAAMI is the standard that all civilian guns have to meet. And the 223 was created in 1962 to meet that criteria and has been frozen to that standard ever since. The Chamber is made as small as possible to utilize as much energy as possible from the lower powered 223 round.

Them we have the Mil Spec. At first glance, this seems inferior because it's not as tight. The reason it's not as tight, it allows more space for gas expansion before the bullet exits the chamber. The Pressure is much higher than the 223. This does not comply with the SAAMI standard and has been changed many times since 1959 when it was first introduced. It's constantly been updated for maximum efficiency.

Can you safely fire a 223 in a mil spec 556 chamber? Sure you can but the downside is, you will lose accuracy and velocity compared to firing it out of a SAAMI chamber that has been optimized for the 223. That extra headspace will bleed off pressure that should be used to propel the bullet down the barrel.

Can you safely fire a 556 Nato Round out of a 223 SAAMI chamber? Most of the time. I doubt if it will ever blow up in your face. But it will slowly degrade your barrel over time. And it will sooner or later have an annoying problem of popping primers into the mechanism which will jam the gun. The popped primer isn't too unsafe, it's just damned annoying. The more you fire that 556 through your SAAMI chamber the more it's going to start happening as the barrel (Chamber) wears. When this happens, it's time to change out your barrel.

The gun that Dipstick is pushing is a SAAMI. It's the bottom of the barrel. If you want a much better rifle that will last longer, shoot straighter, and more, look for these other qualities. But you will have to pay for them.

.223 Wylde, Anything rated as match, Anything rated as NATO. None of these seem to have any trouble with the 556. But the 223 Wilde and anything rated Match also has no trouble with the 223 either. The Nato is specifically tuned to the 556 Nato so it's going to degrade a bit with the 223. The good news is, you might, and I strongly don't suggest this, might be able to fit one of the better barrels to the MP15 rifle. I would suggest you also change out the bolt as well to a better bolt. By the time you get a decent rifle by doing this, you could have bought a decent one for the same amount of money without having to modify it.

When I buy a gun, I expect it to last the next 100 years or so. My Great Grandkids can fire it up long after I am gone and it works just like it did the day it came out of the factory. I don't need to be spending hundreds of dollars on something that will be constantly having to replace parts on to keep it servicable. These are Toasters which I throw away when they break. And they certainly should not be made in China. If it's made in America, I expect quality and should be required to pay for quality. All of a sudden, that Mini-14 doesn't look so bad anymore even if it is a bit more cumbersome to change the mag out on. The Mini-14 costs not much more than the junk AR but it's a 100 year or better gun. I respect that.

So is there a difference between an AR-15 and a Mini-14? For the money, you bet. Buy the Mini-14 and get something your Great Grand Kids will enjoy.

“generally, shooting .223 through a 5.56 chamber results in lower pressure, but still functions (safely). Firing 5.56 through a .223 chamber, however, results in somewhat higher pressures. Although the differences aren’t massive (~5% in the previously referenced study), extensive firing of 5.56 through a .223 chamber could lead to over-pressure malfunctions, such as popped primers or blown cartridge case heads and other firearm malfunctions”

Wow, you are learning. Slowly even with the head hitting the wall repeatedly, but you are learning.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

American Outdoor Brands, the gun maker that owns the iconic Smith & Wesson line of firearms, reported plunging sales on Wednesday.
The company said that quarterly sales dropped 25% compared to the fourth quarter of last year, and profit plummeted more than 70%.

Sales for the full year were down 33% from the year before, and profit plunged 84%.
Gun sales plunge for Smith & Wesson

Die of fast!

What a dolt like you wouldn't know is that gun and ammo sales have been through the roof for years thanks to Obama. The drop now is simply things going back to normal.

The figures are in. For the year of 2017, it shows that there was a 11 percent drop in gun sales. This isn't just a few states. It's in all states. All States show a reduction. That's an 11 percent drop from 2016. Yet the gun manufacturers all claim their sales have increased. Well, not according to the NICS that closely follows the gun background checks. Looks like the Gun Manufacturers are doing a bit of voodoo hype on this one.

The reports of the Gun Bonanza Sales in 2016 is probably incorrect as well. The Right Wing News claims record gun sales in 2016 yet the gun sellers tell that their gun sales have gone down. Another bit of PR voodoo.

So it looks like gun sales went down in 2016 and I can't find that figure accurately and it went down another 11% in 2017. And the 2017 11% loss is the worst it has been in decades. Even with the mass shootings, the More Guns fear is working less and less every day.

Hey STUPIDO:

How does any of that conflict with what I said? Yes, I remember, you're another flaming jackass that couldn't fight his way out of a conversation with a 5th grader. Oh and by the way, gun violence and shootings are WAY DOWN. And I won't even try to guess what your reference to "more guns fears" was trying to claim. Another 5 minutes of my life wasted on USMB talking to an itinerant idiot.

Translating your post, "I lose once again". Get used to it. You gun nutters usually do.

Jesus, you can't even be original. You are like the third person to start stealing my "translation" format from me! BTW, if you were trying to write grammatical English, the proper syntax is: I LOST once again.

Son, you weren't even a gleam in anyone eye when the first person used that phrase. In fact, no one really knows the first person that used it. And I doubt if there is anyone alive that is in the condition to know either. You certainly do rate yourself highly.

 

[Pilot1]

Gun sales across the board have been at record highs for almost TEN YEARS. No industry can sustain that type of growth. Many people bought their guns when Obama, then Hillary threatened them. Now, without the constant threat of bans, and confiscation, sales have slowed. Normal market forces at work.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I don't expect you to understand since you say that there is a difference between the AR and the M-16. Those of us in the know know that the only difference is the amount of money spent on the gun. And your idea of an AR is strictly bargain basement. I would venture to call them the "Saturday Night Specials" of the ARs. I, personally, like the better quality with the Mil Specs which can safely handle the hotter 556 loads without fear of either damaging the weapon or myself. You sure don't sound like much of a gun dealer outside one that deals out of his car's truck at 2 am in the morning.

Lol
Na, like I said s&w m&p15 sport is a great entry level sporting rifle.
It can easily shoot 1moa out of the box if the shooter is able, An above average barrel.
Obviously it’s no where near military grade... it is very able to shoot both cartridges safely.
But, believe what you want... it’s the progressives way.

Oh, I see. It's Progressive to want safe firearms. It's progressive to demand that the sales pitch for a firearm is truthful. It's Progressive to demand that we get safe weapons? Hate to break it to you but that's Capitalism at it's best. What you want is to make sales to stupid people by misrepresenting the cheap junk as something it's not. Here is what Mil Spec Means for the firing chamber which the MP15 doesn't meet.

The rifle you are pushing has a SAAMI chamber. Which means it's like the traditional chamber. It's tight against the bullet. No room. SAAMI is the standard that all civilian guns have to meet. And the 223 was created in 1962 to meet that criteria and has been frozen to that standard ever since. The Chamber is made as small as possible to utilize as much energy as possible from the lower powered 223 round.

Them we have the Mil Spec. At first glance, this seems inferior because it's not as tight. The reason it's not as tight, it allows more space for gas expansion before the bullet exits the chamber. The Pressure is much higher than the 223. This does not comply with the SAAMI standard and has been changed many times since 1959 when it was first introduced. It's constantly been updated for maximum efficiency.

Can you safely fire a 223 in a mil spec 556 chamber? Sure you can but the downside is, you will lose accuracy and velocity compared to firing it out of a SAAMI chamber that has been optimized for the 223. That extra headspace will bleed off pressure that should be used to propel the bullet down the barrel.

Can you safely fire a 556 Nato Round out of a 223 SAAMI chamber? Most of the time. I doubt if it will ever blow up in your face. But it will slowly degrade your barrel over time. And it will sooner or later have an annoying problem of popping primers into the mechanism which will jam the gun. The popped primer isn't too unsafe, it's just damned annoying. The more you fire that 556 through your SAAMI chamber the more it's going to start happening as the barrel (Chamber) wears. When this happens, it's time to change out your barrel.

The gun that Dipstick is pushing is a SAAMI. It's the bottom of the barrel. If you want a much better rifle that will last longer, shoot straighter, and more, look for these other qualities. But you will have to pay for them.

.223 Wylde, Anything rated as match, Anything rated as NATO. None of these seem to have any trouble with the 556. But the 223 Wilde and anything rated Match also has no trouble with the 223 either. The Nato is specifically tuned to the 556 Nato so it's going to degrade a bit with the 223. The good news is, you might, and I strongly don't suggest this, might be able to fit one of the better barrels to the MP15 rifle. I would suggest you also change out the bolt as well to a better bolt. By the time you get a decent rifle by doing this, you could have bought a decent one for the same amount of money without having to modify it.

When I buy a gun, I expect it to last the next 100 years or so. My Great Grandkids can fire it up long after I am gone and it works just like it did the day it came out of the factory. I don't need to be spending hundreds of dollars on something that will be constantly having to replace parts on to keep it servicable. These are Toasters which I throw away when they break. And they certainly should not be made in China. If it's made in America, I expect quality and should be required to pay for quality. All of a sudden, that Mini-14 doesn't look so bad anymore even if it is a bit more cumbersome to change the mag out on. The Mini-14 costs not much more than the junk AR but it's a 100 year or better gun. I respect that.

So is there a difference between an AR-15 and a Mini-14? For the money, you bet. Buy the Mini-14 and get something your Great Grand Kids will enjoy.

Lol....might as well have written this in Arabic given the understanding of "assault" weapons by the modern progressive.

A month ago, one of these Meatheads was actually making fun of a shotgun being used for home defense because he said he had been shot at close range by a shotgun and only "knocked down"

Ghèeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyy!

No elaboration needed for my second amendment supporting pals.

What Rustfor brains wants you to believe is that I am a gun grabber. I support the Shotgun for home defense. There is nothing more frightening or loud than the racking of a Model 870 Shotgun in the dark. Not only all illegal activities stop instantly, but so does a few heart beats. Your intruder can be armed with an AR-15 but he's frozen in place for a bit. Flight becomes his only thought at that point. He just brought a knife to a gunfight.

My Shotgun is loaded with a 3in Mag #4 shot. At 20 feet, you will be knocked down. But you won't be getting back up without either pall bearers or serious medical attention. The good news is, in that situation, the firing of it probably won't be necessary. Whatever hole they slowly came in, they will be quickly exit from. Rather than shoot, just calmly say, "I think you outta' leave". I have too many years in the Military and don't need to add to my score card anymore. My Cajones are just the right size.

As for the "Assault Rifle", the AR is quite capable of going to war. That is exactly what it was built for. It has all the features to be used by a scared kid filled full of adrenaline while under fire. it's not a squad weapon. It won't be used in any form of Auto Setting in Combat even if it had it. The M-16 has the 3 shot setting but it's almost never used in combat. The 3 shot is pretty damned worthless. So that means that for normal combat use, there really isn't any difference using an AR-15 or a M-16A-4. What makes it a sport rifle or an assault rifle is how it's used. The fact that it can be used either way is what scares many. This is why I push the Mini-14. It doesn't have the qualities of a combat rifle. Otherwise the M-14 would still be in service and the M-16 or AR-15 Model 601 would have never seen the light of day with the military.

Daryl the gun grabber, your opinion is just that... your opinion.
There is a reason entry level ARs are America’s best selling sporting rifles... they are a great value and do check all of the boxes.

Your definition of a Gun Grabber is quite broad, isn't it. And claiming that the AR-15 style is the best selling "Sport" rifle is also incorrect. The Model 60 still out sells it by at least 2 to one.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Gun sales across the board have been at record highs for almost TEN YEARS. No industry can sustain that type of growth. Many people bought their guns when Obama, then Hillary threatened them. Now, without the constant threat of bans, and confiscation, sales have slowed. Normal market forces at work.

hate to break it to you but that great fear has passed and it doesn't have the affect it once had. Turns out it was a lie anyway. Gun Sales went down starting in 2016 by quite a margin and then dropped again in 2017. Then there is the lie that the AR sales are growing each day. Hate to break it to you but the market has already saturated with them. Most gun dealers started reporting about not being able to move them off the shelves like they used to. If it weren't for handguns, shotguns and traditional hunting rifles the gun market would be completely south. It's just going back to where it should be. The Majority of the Population isn't buying the Fear Factor anymore.