Gun sales plunge for Smith & Wesson: Can Gun Nutters Save Smith & Wesson? Having 100 Guns, too few?

If S&W would be on the leading edge of firearms design like they were with their venerable revolvers and quit trying to produce guns other companies are making, they'd do just fine.

Nothing could beat their Model 29 .44 magnum with a 6" barrel.
The smith&wessen m&p15 sport is a very fine entry level sporting rifle...
And the m&p handguns are excellent, better than glocks.

S&W claims this can shoot either the 556 nato or the 223 rounds. DO NOT FIRE THE 556 NATO ROUNDS. I notice a flaw in their advertising where it hints at mil specs. Instead of outright saying Mil Spec, it says Mil Spec Sized. It doesn't talk about the head size that the 556 requires over the 223 to make it safe to fire the 556. It doesn't talk about the extra chromium in areas that makes it safe to fire the 556 rounds. If it was Mil Spec it would proudly state that. It doesn't. Therefore, it's just another cheap piece of junk for under 800 bucks.
Nonsense.

It’s perfectly safe to use 5.56 NATO rounds in the M&P 15 series of carbines.
This true, the engineers at smith have made sure...

If it were true, they could legally put Mil Spec, Nato or Match on their descriptions. But since it isn't, they can make the claim it can fire both but they don't have to tell you the dangers of firing the Nato 556 on a regular basis. You already posted pretty much word for word why one shouldn't as I did previously. Until I see one of those 3 ratings, I don't suggest you fire many 556 nato rounds through the MP15.
 
hate to break it to you but that great fear has passed and it doesn't have the affect it once had. Turns out it was a lie anyway. Gun Sales went down starting in 2016 by quite a margin and then dropped again in 2017. Then there is the lie that the AR sales are growing each day. Hate to break it to you but the market has already saturated with them. Most gun dealers started reporting about not being able to move them off the shelves like they used to. If it weren't for handguns, shotguns and traditional hunting rifles the gun market would be completely south. It's just going back to where it should be. The Majority of the Population isn't buying the Fear Factor anymore.

I guess you either didn't read my post, or totally misunderstood it.
 
hate to break it to you but that great fear has passed and it doesn't have the affect it once had. Turns out it was a lie anyway. Gun Sales went down starting in 2016 by quite a margin and then dropped again in 2017. Then there is the lie that the AR sales are growing each day. Hate to break it to you but the market has already saturated with them. Most gun dealers started reporting about not being able to move them off the shelves like they used to. If it weren't for handguns, shotguns and traditional hunting rifles the gun market would be completely south. It's just going back to where it should be. The Majority of the Population isn't buying the Fear Factor anymore.

I guess you either didn't read my post, or totally misunderstood it.

Oh, I read it. But it's a bit hard to understand when it's based on fairytale facts. You remind me quite a bit of Achmed the Dead Terrorists. You want me to fear you?

 
[
Oh, I read it. But it's a bit hard to understand when it's based on fairytale facts. You remind me quite a bit of Achmed the Dead Terrorists. You want me to fear you?

We had several years of record gun sales. The market is now saturated. Again, normal market forces. I don't know what you are getting from my original post. I am not preaching fear.

You seem to have a persecution complex. Maybe have a cup of tea.

Gun sales hit new record ahead of new Obama gun restrictions
 
[
Oh, I read it. But it's a bit hard to understand when it's based on fairytale facts. You remind me quite a bit of Achmed the Dead Terrorists. You want me to fear you?

We had several years of record gun sales. The market is now saturated. Again, normal market forces. I don't know what you are getting from my original post. I am not preaching fear.

You seem to have a persecution complex. Maybe have a cup of tea.

Gun sales hit new record ahead of new Obama gun restrictions

Actually, if you were to put your "FEAR WAND" away, you would find we are saying about the same thing. I am just matter of factly saying it without the FEEAAAARRRR routine. it appears that the NRA has done too good a selling job for the short term and has trashed things for the long term. I wonder how many gun manufacturers will survive after this bubble.
 
Where am I using the "FEAR WAND"?


The problem is, you've done is for so long that you believe it's normal behavior so there is no way to explain it to you. The first step is to have you realize that it just won't work anymore and a different behavior is required to get the same ends.
 
The problem is, you've done is for so long that you believe it's normal behavior so there is no way to explain it to you. The first step is to have you realize that it just won't work anymore and a different behavior is required to get the same ends.

Ok, first off I am not trying "to get the same ends". You obviously can't point to where I am fear mongering so speak in veiled, psycho babble that really isn't worth my time. Have a nice day.
 
That means the prices will drop. THANK YOU President Trump!


It also means that less people are terrified of the government and less inclined to arm themselves ever since Obabble's Reign of Terror ended.
 
:lmao:
You being an metallurgy expert... :fu:

I don't expect you to understand since you say that there is a difference between the AR and the M-16. Those of us in the know know that the only difference is the amount of money spent on the gun. And your idea of an AR is strictly bargain basement. I would venture to call them the "Saturday Night Specials" of the ARs. I, personally, like the better quality with the Mil Specs which can safely handle the hotter 556 loads without fear of either damaging the weapon or myself. You sure don't sound like much of a gun dealer outside one that deals out of his car's truck at 2 am in the morning.
Lol
Na, like I said s&w m&p15 sport is a great entry level sporting rifle.
It can easily shoot 1moa out of the box if the shooter is able, An above average barrel.
Obviously it’s no where near military grade... it is very able to shoot both cartridges safely.
But, believe what you want... it’s the progressives way.

Oh, I see. It's Progressive to want safe firearms. It's progressive to demand that the sales pitch for a firearm is truthful. It's Progressive to demand that we get safe weapons? Hate to break it to you but that's Capitalism at it's best. What you want is to make sales to stupid people by misrepresenting the cheap junk as something it's not. Here is what Mil Spec Means for the firing chamber which the MP15 doesn't meet.

The rifle you are pushing has a SAAMI chamber. Which means it's like the traditional chamber. It's tight against the bullet. No room. SAAMI is the standard that all civilian guns have to meet. And the 223 was created in 1962 to meet that criteria and has been frozen to that standard ever since. The Chamber is made as small as possible to utilize as much energy as possible from the lower powered 223 round.

Them we have the Mil Spec. At first glance, this seems inferior because it's not as tight. The reason it's not as tight, it allows more space for gas expansion before the bullet exits the chamber. The Pressure is much higher than the 223. This does not comply with the SAAMI standard and has been changed many times since 1959 when it was first introduced. It's constantly been updated for maximum efficiency.

Can you safely fire a 223 in a mil spec 556 chamber? Sure you can but the downside is, you will lose accuracy and velocity compared to firing it out of a SAAMI chamber that has been optimized for the 223. That extra headspace will bleed off pressure that should be used to propel the bullet down the barrel.

Can you safely fire a 556 Nato Round out of a 223 SAAMI chamber? Most of the time. I doubt if it will ever blow up in your face. But it will slowly degrade your barrel over time. And it will sooner or later have an annoying problem of popping primers into the mechanism which will jam the gun. The popped primer isn't too unsafe, it's just damned annoying. The more you fire that 556 through your SAAMI chamber the more it's going to start happening as the barrel (Chamber) wears. When this happens, it's time to change out your barrel.

The gun that Dipstick is pushing is a SAAMI. It's the bottom of the barrel. If you want a much better rifle that will last longer, shoot straighter, and more, look for these other qualities. But you will have to pay for them.

.223 Wylde, Anything rated as match, Anything rated as NATO. None of these seem to have any trouble with the 556. But the 223 Wilde and anything rated Match also has no trouble with the 223 either. The Nato is specifically tuned to the 556 Nato so it's going to degrade a bit with the 223. The good news is, you might, and I strongly don't suggest this, might be able to fit one of the better barrels to the MP15 rifle. I would suggest you also change out the bolt as well to a better bolt. By the time you get a decent rifle by doing this, you could have bought a decent one for the same amount of money without having to modify it.

When I buy a gun, I expect it to last the next 100 years or so. My Great Grandkids can fire it up long after I am gone and it works just like it did the day it came out of the factory. I don't need to be spending hundreds of dollars on something that will be constantly having to replace parts on to keep it servicable. These are Toasters which I throw away when they break. And they certainly should not be made in China. If it's made in America, I expect quality and should be required to pay for quality. All of a sudden, that Mini-14 doesn't look so bad anymore even if it is a bit more cumbersome to change the mag out on. The Mini-14 costs not much more than the junk AR but it's a 100 year or better gun. I respect that.

So is there a difference between an AR-15 and a Mini-14? For the money, you bet. Buy the Mini-14 and get something your Great Grand Kids will enjoy.
“generally, shooting .223 through a 5.56 chamber results in lower pressure, but still functions (safely). Firing 5.56 through a .223 chamber, however, results in somewhat higher pressures. Although the differences aren’t massive (~5% in the previously referenced study), extensive firing of 5.56 through a .223 chamber could lead to over-pressure malfunctions, such as popped primers or blown cartridge case heads and other firearm malfunctions”

Wow, you are learning. Slowly even with the head hitting the wall repeatedly, but you are learning.
Well, you safely shoot either cartridge in the m&p 15 sport... a great entry level sporting rifle
 
Lol
Na, like I said s&w m&p15 sport is a great entry level sporting rifle.
It can easily shoot 1moa out of the box if the shooter is able, An above average barrel.
Obviously it’s no where near military grade... it is very able to shoot both cartridges safely.
But, believe what you want... it’s the progressives way.

Oh, I see. It's Progressive to want safe firearms. It's progressive to demand that the sales pitch for a firearm is truthful. It's Progressive to demand that we get safe weapons? Hate to break it to you but that's Capitalism at it's best. What you want is to make sales to stupid people by misrepresenting the cheap junk as something it's not. Here is what Mil Spec Means for the firing chamber which the MP15 doesn't meet.

The rifle you are pushing has a SAAMI chamber. Which means it's like the traditional chamber. It's tight against the bullet. No room. SAAMI is the standard that all civilian guns have to meet. And the 223 was created in 1962 to meet that criteria and has been frozen to that standard ever since. The Chamber is made as small as possible to utilize as much energy as possible from the lower powered 223 round.

Them we have the Mil Spec. At first glance, this seems inferior because it's not as tight. The reason it's not as tight, it allows more space for gas expansion before the bullet exits the chamber. The Pressure is much higher than the 223. This does not comply with the SAAMI standard and has been changed many times since 1959 when it was first introduced. It's constantly been updated for maximum efficiency.

Can you safely fire a 223 in a mil spec 556 chamber? Sure you can but the downside is, you will lose accuracy and velocity compared to firing it out of a SAAMI chamber that has been optimized for the 223. That extra headspace will bleed off pressure that should be used to propel the bullet down the barrel.

Can you safely fire a 556 Nato Round out of a 223 SAAMI chamber? Most of the time. I doubt if it will ever blow up in your face. But it will slowly degrade your barrel over time. And it will sooner or later have an annoying problem of popping primers into the mechanism which will jam the gun. The popped primer isn't too unsafe, it's just damned annoying. The more you fire that 556 through your SAAMI chamber the more it's going to start happening as the barrel (Chamber) wears. When this happens, it's time to change out your barrel.

The gun that Dipstick is pushing is a SAAMI. It's the bottom of the barrel. If you want a much better rifle that will last longer, shoot straighter, and more, look for these other qualities. But you will have to pay for them.

.223 Wylde, Anything rated as match, Anything rated as NATO. None of these seem to have any trouble with the 556. But the 223 Wilde and anything rated Match also has no trouble with the 223 either. The Nato is specifically tuned to the 556 Nato so it's going to degrade a bit with the 223. The good news is, you might, and I strongly don't suggest this, might be able to fit one of the better barrels to the MP15 rifle. I would suggest you also change out the bolt as well to a better bolt. By the time you get a decent rifle by doing this, you could have bought a decent one for the same amount of money without having to modify it.

When I buy a gun, I expect it to last the next 100 years or so. My Great Grandkids can fire it up long after I am gone and it works just like it did the day it came out of the factory. I don't need to be spending hundreds of dollars on something that will be constantly having to replace parts on to keep it servicable. These are Toasters which I throw away when they break. And they certainly should not be made in China. If it's made in America, I expect quality and should be required to pay for quality. All of a sudden, that Mini-14 doesn't look so bad anymore even if it is a bit more cumbersome to change the mag out on. The Mini-14 costs not much more than the junk AR but it's a 100 year or better gun. I respect that.

So is there a difference between an AR-15 and a Mini-14? For the money, you bet. Buy the Mini-14 and get something your Great Grand Kids will enjoy.

Lol....might as well have written this in Arabic given the understanding of "assault" weapons by the modern progressive.

A month ago, one of these Meatheads was actually making fun of a shotgun being used for home defense because he said he had been shot at close range by a shotgun and only "knocked down" :ack-1::aug08_031::aug08_031::aug08_031:

Ghèeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyy!

No elaboration needed for my second amendment supporting pals. :eusa_dance:

What Rustfor brains wants you to believe is that I am a gun grabber. I support the Shotgun for home defense. There is nothing more frightening or loud than the racking of a Model 870 Shotgun in the dark. Not only all illegal activities stop instantly, but so does a few heart beats. Your intruder can be armed with an AR-15 but he's frozen in place for a bit. Flight becomes his only thought at that point. He just brought a knife to a gunfight.

My Shotgun is loaded with a 3in Mag #4 shot. At 20 feet, you will be knocked down. But you won't be getting back up without either pall bearers or serious medical attention. The good news is, in that situation, the firing of it probably won't be necessary. Whatever hole they slowly came in, they will be quickly exit from. Rather than shoot, just calmly say, "I think you outta' leave". I have too many years in the Military and don't need to add to my score card anymore. My Cajones are just the right size.

As for the "Assault Rifle", the AR is quite capable of going to war. That is exactly what it was built for. It has all the features to be used by a scared kid filled full of adrenaline while under fire. it's not a squad weapon. It won't be used in any form of Auto Setting in Combat even if it had it. The M-16 has the 3 shot setting but it's almost never used in combat. The 3 shot is pretty damned worthless. So that means that for normal combat use, there really isn't any difference using an AR-15 or a M-16A-4. What makes it a sport rifle or an assault rifle is how it's used. The fact that it can be used either way is what scares many. This is why I push the Mini-14. It doesn't have the qualities of a combat rifle. Otherwise the M-14 would still be in service and the M-16 or AR-15 Model 601 would have never seen the light of day with the military.
Daryl the gun grabber, your opinion is just that... your opinion.
There is a reason entry level ARs are America’s best selling sporting rifles... they are a great value and do check all of the boxes.

Your definition of a Gun Grabber is quite broad, isn't it. And claiming that the AR-15 style is the best selling "Sport" rifle is also incorrect. The Model 60 still out sells it by at least 2 to one.
Na, not really.
 
S&W lost a lot of customers when they started to try and appease the anti-gun nuts. I wouldn't buy from them on a bet.

They didn't go with the anti-gun nutz. They put all their eggs into the AR type weapons and that was just a bubble. No matter what the gun nutters say, the sales have slowed way down on those things since just about everyone has found out that "We ain't going to take all your guns away from you" by force. Instead, Remington started making cheaper versions of what was once first class rifles, shotguns and handguns. They sunk their money into producing junk AR style guns. They got lazy and complacent. Meanwhile, the other companies upped their games and didn't spend nearly as much time on the ARs as Remington and they still turned out good quality guns other than junk ARs. Oh, the other companies still churned out junk ARs but just not as many in comparison to the non AR guns. In fact, the other companies actually got better in quality in many areas. Remington just got worse. They are now in their death knoll and really, no one but the gun nutters who demand cheap garbage ARs will miss them.

I see where the venerable models that Remington used to offer are all but gone. Their selection has dwindled in Shotguns, Rifles and handguns. I have owned both a model 700 which is very long and a model 660 which is very short. I enjoyed the carbine more than the long rifle since I could use it as a saddle gun or a pack gun without getting it ripped to pieces by limbs as much. I replaced my old venerable Model 99 303 Savage which met the size critieria but couldn't really hit a danged thing past 50 yds and kill it (it punched a nice hole in and out). The Model 660 was a 30.06 and did the job at almost any range. They killed the 600 series and all of their Carbines died with it. The Model 700 is all that is left if you want something that long. I, personally, like a shorter gun.
The longer the barrel, the better with open sights, one would think. Guess everything is with scopes today, so 'iron sights' are passé; many new rifles don't even offer them.
 
S&W lost a lot of customers when they started to try and appease the anti-gun nuts. I wouldn't buy from them on a bet.

They didn't go with the anti-gun nutz. They put all their eggs into the AR type weapons and that was just a bubble. No matter what the gun nutters say, the sales have slowed way down on those things since just about everyone has found out that "We ain't going to take all your guns away from you" by force. Instead, Remington started making cheaper versions of what was once first class rifles, shotguns and handguns. They sunk their money into producing junk AR style guns. They got lazy and complacent. Meanwhile, the other companies upped their games and didn't spend nearly as much time on the ARs as Remington and they still turned out good quality guns other than junk ARs. Oh, the other companies still churned out junk ARs but just not as many in comparison to the non AR guns. In fact, the other companies actually got better in quality in many areas. Remington just got worse. They are now in their death knoll and really, no one but the gun nutters who demand cheap garbage ARs will miss them.

I see where the venerable models that Remington used to offer are all but gone. Their selection has dwindled in Shotguns, Rifles and handguns. I have owned both a model 700 which is very long and a model 660 which is very short. I enjoyed the carbine more than the long rifle since I could use it as a saddle gun or a pack gun without getting it ripped to pieces by limbs as much. I replaced my old venerable Model 99 303 Savage which met the size critieria but couldn't really hit a danged thing past 50 yds and kill it (it punched a nice hole in and out). The Model 660 was a 30.06 and did the job at almost any range. They killed the 600 series and all of their Carbines died with it. The Model 700 is all that is left if you want something that long. I, personally, like a shorter gun.


You don't know what you are talking about, yet you keep posting.....

What's the matter, you hate it that your most prized AR manufacturer is probably going to tits up? Welcome to the business world of Competition.
S&W AR platform is garbage. Daniel Defense is premium

-Geaux

Daniel Defense AR copy starts out at 1900 bucks and it's Mil Spec or Match Grade. And it just gets better the more you spend. Those are definitely not junk. If I were to own an AR Copy, it would be one of those.
Hmmm...An AR to military specs. Interesting. Attention, Militia members!
 
Smith & Wesson always sell good.
I can’t keep m&p 45s in stock...

Idk about Smith & Wesson, but my friend has this Dan Wesson .44 magnum that sucks balls, IMO.

I have a model 10..probably 70s or 80s. Have not yet tested for accuracy. Am not expecting much.

We had a Security six in .357, too. The grouping was 2-3x better than that Dan Wesson.
I, too, had a Security Six that was remarkably accurate. I could never blame the pistol for a miss.I think is was better than my dad's Colt .38 Special when he was on the force.
 
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I don't expect you to understand since you say that there is a difference between the AR and the M-16. Those of us in the know know that the only difference is the amount of money spent on the gun. And your idea of an AR is strictly bargain basement. I would venture to call them the "Saturday Night Specials" of the ARs. I, personally, like the better quality with the Mil Specs which can safely handle the hotter 556 loads without fear of either damaging the weapon or myself. You sure don't sound like much of a gun dealer outside one that deals out of his car's truck at 2 am in the morning.
Lol
Na, like I said s&w m&p15 sport is a great entry level sporting rifle.
It can easily shoot 1moa out of the box if the shooter is able, An above average barrel.
Obviously it’s no where near military grade... it is very able to shoot both cartridges safely.
But, believe what you want... it’s the progressives way.

Oh, I see. It's Progressive to want safe firearms. It's progressive to demand that the sales pitch for a firearm is truthful. It's Progressive to demand that we get safe weapons? Hate to break it to you but that's Capitalism at it's best. What you want is to make sales to stupid people by misrepresenting the cheap junk as something it's not. Here is what Mil Spec Means for the firing chamber which the MP15 doesn't meet.

The rifle you are pushing has a SAAMI chamber. Which means it's like the traditional chamber. It's tight against the bullet. No room. SAAMI is the standard that all civilian guns have to meet. And the 223 was created in 1962 to meet that criteria and has been frozen to that standard ever since. The Chamber is made as small as possible to utilize as much energy as possible from the lower powered 223 round.

Them we have the Mil Spec. At first glance, this seems inferior because it's not as tight. The reason it's not as tight, it allows more space for gas expansion before the bullet exits the chamber. The Pressure is much higher than the 223. This does not comply with the SAAMI standard and has been changed many times since 1959 when it was first introduced. It's constantly been updated for maximum efficiency.

Can you safely fire a 223 in a mil spec 556 chamber? Sure you can but the downside is, you will lose accuracy and velocity compared to firing it out of a SAAMI chamber that has been optimized for the 223. That extra headspace will bleed off pressure that should be used to propel the bullet down the barrel.

Can you safely fire a 556 Nato Round out of a 223 SAAMI chamber? Most of the time. I doubt if it will ever blow up in your face. But it will slowly degrade your barrel over time. And it will sooner or later have an annoying problem of popping primers into the mechanism which will jam the gun. The popped primer isn't too unsafe, it's just damned annoying. The more you fire that 556 through your SAAMI chamber the more it's going to start happening as the barrel (Chamber) wears. When this happens, it's time to change out your barrel.

The gun that Dipstick is pushing is a SAAMI. It's the bottom of the barrel. If you want a much better rifle that will last longer, shoot straighter, and more, look for these other qualities. But you will have to pay for them.

.223 Wylde, Anything rated as match, Anything rated as NATO. None of these seem to have any trouble with the 556. But the 223 Wilde and anything rated Match also has no trouble with the 223 either. The Nato is specifically tuned to the 556 Nato so it's going to degrade a bit with the 223. The good news is, you might, and I strongly don't suggest this, might be able to fit one of the better barrels to the MP15 rifle. I would suggest you also change out the bolt as well to a better bolt. By the time you get a decent rifle by doing this, you could have bought a decent one for the same amount of money without having to modify it.

When I buy a gun, I expect it to last the next 100 years or so. My Great Grandkids can fire it up long after I am gone and it works just like it did the day it came out of the factory. I don't need to be spending hundreds of dollars on something that will be constantly having to replace parts on to keep it servicable. These are Toasters which I throw away when they break. And they certainly should not be made in China. If it's made in America, I expect quality and should be required to pay for quality. All of a sudden, that Mini-14 doesn't look so bad anymore even if it is a bit more cumbersome to change the mag out on. The Mini-14 costs not much more than the junk AR but it's a 100 year or better gun. I respect that.

So is there a difference between an AR-15 and a Mini-14? For the money, you bet. Buy the Mini-14 and get something your Great Grand Kids will enjoy.
“generally, shooting .223 through a 5.56 chamber results in lower pressure, but still functions (safely). Firing 5.56 through a .223 chamber, however, results in somewhat higher pressures. Although the differences aren’t massive (~5% in the previously referenced study), extensive firing of 5.56 through a .223 chamber could lead to over-pressure malfunctions, such as popped primers or blown cartridge case heads and other firearm malfunctions”

Wow, you are learning. Slowly even with the head hitting the wall repeatedly, but you are learning.
Well, you safely shoot either cartridge in the m&p 15 sport... a great entry level sporting rifle

You already said it was not either milspec or match. If it's neither then I don't suggest it. But you do it if you want. Not everyone in here believes you on this subject.
 
That means the prices will drop. THANK YOU President Trump!


It also means that less people are terrified of the government and less inclined to arm themselves ever since Obabble's Reign of Terror ended.

Screw that, I'm not getting caught slipping again!

What, I can't buy a brick of .22?

I could since I was a kid, except for the Obama years.

Now, I'm making sure I have enough, in case another leftist comes along.


That's a crappy feeling.

We used to buy a brick and blow off 2-300 rounds.

Obama comes along, you can't even get a brick. You can't get hardly anything.

A brick is 500 rounds, used to be about $26.
 
Lol
Na, like I said s&w m&p15 sport is a great entry level sporting rifle.
It can easily shoot 1moa out of the box if the shooter is able, An above average barrel.
Obviously it’s no where near military grade... it is very able to shoot both cartridges safely.
But, believe what you want... it’s the progressives way.

Oh, I see. It's Progressive to want safe firearms. It's progressive to demand that the sales pitch for a firearm is truthful. It's Progressive to demand that we get safe weapons? Hate to break it to you but that's Capitalism at it's best. What you want is to make sales to stupid people by misrepresenting the cheap junk as something it's not. Here is what Mil Spec Means for the firing chamber which the MP15 doesn't meet.

The rifle you are pushing has a SAAMI chamber. Which means it's like the traditional chamber. It's tight against the bullet. No room. SAAMI is the standard that all civilian guns have to meet. And the 223 was created in 1962 to meet that criteria and has been frozen to that standard ever since. The Chamber is made as small as possible to utilize as much energy as possible from the lower powered 223 round.

Them we have the Mil Spec. At first glance, this seems inferior because it's not as tight. The reason it's not as tight, it allows more space for gas expansion before the bullet exits the chamber. The Pressure is much higher than the 223. This does not comply with the SAAMI standard and has been changed many times since 1959 when it was first introduced. It's constantly been updated for maximum efficiency.

Can you safely fire a 223 in a mil spec 556 chamber? Sure you can but the downside is, you will lose accuracy and velocity compared to firing it out of a SAAMI chamber that has been optimized for the 223. That extra headspace will bleed off pressure that should be used to propel the bullet down the barrel.

Can you safely fire a 556 Nato Round out of a 223 SAAMI chamber? Most of the time. I doubt if it will ever blow up in your face. But it will slowly degrade your barrel over time. And it will sooner or later have an annoying problem of popping primers into the mechanism which will jam the gun. The popped primer isn't too unsafe, it's just damned annoying. The more you fire that 556 through your SAAMI chamber the more it's going to start happening as the barrel (Chamber) wears. When this happens, it's time to change out your barrel.

The gun that Dipstick is pushing is a SAAMI. It's the bottom of the barrel. If you want a much better rifle that will last longer, shoot straighter, and more, look for these other qualities. But you will have to pay for them.

.223 Wylde, Anything rated as match, Anything rated as NATO. None of these seem to have any trouble with the 556. But the 223 Wilde and anything rated Match also has no trouble with the 223 either. The Nato is specifically tuned to the 556 Nato so it's going to degrade a bit with the 223. The good news is, you might, and I strongly don't suggest this, might be able to fit one of the better barrels to the MP15 rifle. I would suggest you also change out the bolt as well to a better bolt. By the time you get a decent rifle by doing this, you could have bought a decent one for the same amount of money without having to modify it.

When I buy a gun, I expect it to last the next 100 years or so. My Great Grandkids can fire it up long after I am gone and it works just like it did the day it came out of the factory. I don't need to be spending hundreds of dollars on something that will be constantly having to replace parts on to keep it servicable. These are Toasters which I throw away when they break. And they certainly should not be made in China. If it's made in America, I expect quality and should be required to pay for quality. All of a sudden, that Mini-14 doesn't look so bad anymore even if it is a bit more cumbersome to change the mag out on. The Mini-14 costs not much more than the junk AR but it's a 100 year or better gun. I respect that.

So is there a difference between an AR-15 and a Mini-14? For the money, you bet. Buy the Mini-14 and get something your Great Grand Kids will enjoy.
“generally, shooting .223 through a 5.56 chamber results in lower pressure, but still functions (safely). Firing 5.56 through a .223 chamber, however, results in somewhat higher pressures. Although the differences aren’t massive (~5% in the previously referenced study), extensive firing of 5.56 through a .223 chamber could lead to over-pressure malfunctions, such as popped primers or blown cartridge case heads and other firearm malfunctions”

Wow, you are learning. Slowly even with the head hitting the wall repeatedly, but you are learning.
Well, you safely shoot either cartridge in the m&p 15 sport... a great entry level sporting rifle

You already said it was not either milspec or match. If it's neither then I don't suggest it. But you do it if you want. Not everyone in here believes you on this subject.
People are gonna believe you over Smith and Wesson? Now that’s fucking funny
 
They didn't go with the anti-gun nutz. They put all their eggs into the AR type weapons and that was just a bubble. No matter what the gun nutters say, the sales have slowed way down on those things since just about everyone has found out that "We ain't going to take all your guns away from you" by force. Instead, Remington started making cheaper versions of what was once first class rifles, shotguns and handguns. They sunk their money into producing junk AR style guns. They got lazy and complacent. Meanwhile, the other companies upped their games and didn't spend nearly as much time on the ARs as Remington and they still turned out good quality guns other than junk ARs. Oh, the other companies still churned out junk ARs but just not as many in comparison to the non AR guns. In fact, the other companies actually got better in quality in many areas. Remington just got worse. They are now in their death knoll and really, no one but the gun nutters who demand cheap garbage ARs will miss them.

I see where the venerable models that Remington used to offer are all but gone. Their selection has dwindled in Shotguns, Rifles and handguns. I have owned both a model 700 which is very long and a model 660 which is very short. I enjoyed the carbine more than the long rifle since I could use it as a saddle gun or a pack gun without getting it ripped to pieces by limbs as much. I replaced my old venerable Model 99 303 Savage which met the size critieria but couldn't really hit a danged thing past 50 yds and kill it (it punched a nice hole in and out). The Model 660 was a 30.06 and did the job at almost any range. They killed the 600 series and all of their Carbines died with it. The Model 700 is all that is left if you want something that long. I, personally, like a shorter gun.


You don't know what you are talking about, yet you keep posting.....

What's the matter, you hate it that your most prized AR manufacturer is probably going to tits up? Welcome to the business world of Competition.
S&W AR platform is garbage. Daniel Defense is premium

-Geaux

Daniel Defense AR copy starts out at 1900 bucks and it's Mil Spec or Match Grade. And it just gets better the more you spend. Those are definitely not junk. If I were to own an AR Copy, it would be one of those.
Hmmm...An AR to military specs. Interesting. Attention, Militia members!

It's wnot legal to advertise a whole AR as Mil Spec but you can list the parts that way. Only two companies produce Mil Spec and both of those make the M-16A-4 and M-4 for the Military. But there are some that dip into the same parts bin. One of those is the Colt le6920. It's built for Law Enforcement and is legal for civilian purchase. These cost just below 1000 bucks and are well worth it. And they can easily fire the 556 nato round all day long.
Colt's Manufacturing LLC

If anyone is looking for the equivalent of a Mil Spec AR-15 here are 10 of them with links to them.
Ten Top-Rated AR-15 Manufacturers

All of these are assembled from the parts bin of either the Law Enforcement AR-15 or the M-4. And all are chambered for the 556 nato but can also fire the 223. There is even one that borrows heavily from the AK-47 parts bin and is chambered for the 6.8mm on the list.

I have learned that S$W claims that the MP15 does have the Nato Chamber so it might be okay to fire the 556. But that also means it's going to be a little sloppy with the 223 since the chamber pressure will be so low. But it lacks the really good mil specs for the barrel, chamber and bolt so it's not going to last very long firing nato rounds. This would be like a starter kit. You buy it and upgrade it piece by piece to that of a good gun if you can't afford buying the good gun outright. The problem is, the one AR that one of the other people brought up was MIL Spec Parts and sold for just under 1000 bucks, it wouldn't take you very long to invest more than that into the MP15 to have the same gun. Or you can just by the Colt LE6920 for under 1000 and be done with it. I've seen it priced below 900 bucks.

I wasn't aware that the Colt offered that rifle until now. Wow, it's priced just above the bargain basement junk and offers the same features as the 2000 and over buck ARs. No wonder SWAT Teams use these.

Once again, do you want the equivalent of a Saturday Night Special AR or something that can be drug behind your truck and still operate for only a couple or 3 hundred more. Spending 400 to 600 bucks on the MP-15 (depending on how you deck it out initially) that money could be spent better on much better guns. I don't want a gun that I can't depend on 100% of the time if I drop it, get it caught on a tree or whatever. I expect a carbine to be very, very rugged and the MP-15 isn't rugged at all. It can become that way but only after a few hundred bucks investment to make it that way. Meanwhile the LE6920 comes out of the box that way.
 
That means the prices will drop. THANK YOU President Trump!


It also means that less people are terrified of the government and less inclined to arm themselves ever since Obabble's Reign of Terror ended.

Screw that, I'm not getting caught slipping again!

What, I can't buy a brick of .22?

I could since I was a kid, except for the Obama years.

Now, I'm making sure I have enough, in case another leftist comes along.


That's a crappy feeling.

We used to buy a brick and blow off 2-300 rounds.

Obama comes along, you can't even get a brick. You can't get hardly anything.

A brick is 500 rounds, used to be about $26.

They must not like you or you dress funny or something. I don't have that problem. I can buy a brick of ammo anytime I wish as long as I am not trying to arm a brigade.
 
Oh, I see. It's Progressive to want safe firearms. It's progressive to demand that the sales pitch for a firearm is truthful. It's Progressive to demand that we get safe weapons? Hate to break it to you but that's Capitalism at it's best. What you want is to make sales to stupid people by misrepresenting the cheap junk as something it's not. Here is what Mil Spec Means for the firing chamber which the MP15 doesn't meet.

The rifle you are pushing has a SAAMI chamber. Which means it's like the traditional chamber. It's tight against the bullet. No room. SAAMI is the standard that all civilian guns have to meet. And the 223 was created in 1962 to meet that criteria and has been frozen to that standard ever since. The Chamber is made as small as possible to utilize as much energy as possible from the lower powered 223 round.

Them we have the Mil Spec. At first glance, this seems inferior because it's not as tight. The reason it's not as tight, it allows more space for gas expansion before the bullet exits the chamber. The Pressure is much higher than the 223. This does not comply with the SAAMI standard and has been changed many times since 1959 when it was first introduced. It's constantly been updated for maximum efficiency.

Can you safely fire a 223 in a mil spec 556 chamber? Sure you can but the downside is, you will lose accuracy and velocity compared to firing it out of a SAAMI chamber that has been optimized for the 223. That extra headspace will bleed off pressure that should be used to propel the bullet down the barrel.

Can you safely fire a 556 Nato Round out of a 223 SAAMI chamber? Most of the time. I doubt if it will ever blow up in your face. But it will slowly degrade your barrel over time. And it will sooner or later have an annoying problem of popping primers into the mechanism which will jam the gun. The popped primer isn't too unsafe, it's just damned annoying. The more you fire that 556 through your SAAMI chamber the more it's going to start happening as the barrel (Chamber) wears. When this happens, it's time to change out your barrel.

The gun that Dipstick is pushing is a SAAMI. It's the bottom of the barrel. If you want a much better rifle that will last longer, shoot straighter, and more, look for these other qualities. But you will have to pay for them.

.223 Wylde, Anything rated as match, Anything rated as NATO. None of these seem to have any trouble with the 556. But the 223 Wilde and anything rated Match also has no trouble with the 223 either. The Nato is specifically tuned to the 556 Nato so it's going to degrade a bit with the 223. The good news is, you might, and I strongly don't suggest this, might be able to fit one of the better barrels to the MP15 rifle. I would suggest you also change out the bolt as well to a better bolt. By the time you get a decent rifle by doing this, you could have bought a decent one for the same amount of money without having to modify it.

When I buy a gun, I expect it to last the next 100 years or so. My Great Grandkids can fire it up long after I am gone and it works just like it did the day it came out of the factory. I don't need to be spending hundreds of dollars on something that will be constantly having to replace parts on to keep it servicable. These are Toasters which I throw away when they break. And they certainly should not be made in China. If it's made in America, I expect quality and should be required to pay for quality. All of a sudden, that Mini-14 doesn't look so bad anymore even if it is a bit more cumbersome to change the mag out on. The Mini-14 costs not much more than the junk AR but it's a 100 year or better gun. I respect that.

So is there a difference between an AR-15 and a Mini-14? For the money, you bet. Buy the Mini-14 and get something your Great Grand Kids will enjoy.
“generally, shooting .223 through a 5.56 chamber results in lower pressure, but still functions (safely). Firing 5.56 through a .223 chamber, however, results in somewhat higher pressures. Although the differences aren’t massive (~5% in the previously referenced study), extensive firing of 5.56 through a .223 chamber could lead to over-pressure malfunctions, such as popped primers or blown cartridge case heads and other firearm malfunctions”

Wow, you are learning. Slowly even with the head hitting the wall repeatedly, but you are learning.
Well, you safely shoot either cartridge in the m&p 15 sport... a great entry level sporting rifle

You already said it was not either milspec or match. If it's neither then I don't suggest it. But you do it if you want. Not everyone in here believes you on this subject.
People are gonna believe you over Smith and Wesson? Now that’s fucking funny
Either it can shoot 5.56, or it can't.

IMO, fuck them little bullets, but that's my opinion only.

If I wanna shoot something that small, there's .22, or .220 Swift custom gun.

Maybe I could borrow my buddy's .17 HMR
 

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