Government provocations

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by StoptheMadness1, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. StoptheMadness1
    Offline

    StoptheMadness1 Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Messages:
    169
    Thanks Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +14
    Burning of the Reichstag

    In 1933, the Reichstag building in Nazi Germany was firebombed by Hitler's goons, creating a problem. Soon after, the incident was blamed on a mentally ill bystander, who had nothing to do with the fire. This act was later blamed on Hitler's political enemies, and the population reacted with a desire for revenge on those responsible, and also begged for protection. In the midst of the emotional response to the incident, a solution was provided that would ease the fears of the masses; grant the new leader more power. In turn, Hitler was given dictatorial powers to "save" Germany from a new grave (manufactured) threat.

    Operation Himmler

    Hitler also staged another event in order to justify his "Blitzkrieg" invasion of Poland in 1939, using the same principle. On the night of August 31, 1939, a squad of German soldiers went to the Gleiwitz station and broadcast a message in Polish, urging Poles to attack Germans - the operation was titled "Operation Himmler". The broadcast was intended to appear as if an "anti-German" Polish insurgent was responsible. The Germans had a problem - they needed someone to blame. Knowing this, a prisoner was taken out of jail and shot, dressed up in a Polish uniform, shot dead, and left at the scene. This single dead prisoner was used as the pretext for the bloody battle to begin.

    Operation Northwoods


    In the 1960's a plan was created by the US military to convince Americans that a military invasion of Cuba was necessary - and bloody measures would be taken, even if it called for the shedding of innocent blood.

    This document can be found here, at the national security archive in PDF format - Link

    In this now declassified document, detailed plans are laid out regarding how to deceive America into supporting an invasion of Cuba. The plan consists of several nefarious ways of deceiving Americans. The document explains:

    "3. A "remember the Maine" incident could be arranged in several forms:

    a. We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo bay and blame Cuba.

    b. We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in Cuban waters."

    The document continues, explaining the staged rescue operation...

    "The US could follow up with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to "evacuate" the remaining members of the non-existent crew."

    "...Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."

    So far, the plans have appeared at least to be restrained to non-lethal means. The plans go on to talk about committing murder on US soil.

    "We could develop a communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington."

    Operation Ajax

    In 1953, the CIA conducted covert operations in Iran designed to take down the democratically elected leader of Iran, the Shah, Mohammed Mossadegh. Mossadegh, among other things which didn't bode well with certain western interests, had nationalized the oil fields. With a perceived threat from the Shah, the CIA began putting agents on the ground in Iran. According to the CIA website "The plan comprised propaganda, provocations, demonstrations, and bribery, and employed agents of influence, "false flag" operatives, dissident military leaders, and paid protestors."

    One last example is a story carried in the London Independent on December 6, 2004. The headline: "Opposition was to be smeared with terror attack, says official". The article states, "Ukraine's embattled government is ready to stage faked terrorist attacks to destabilise the country and discredit the opposition..." the article continues, quoting the government source from which the information came, saying, "One of the plans was to blow up a pipeline and blame it on opposition supporters."

    Other examples:

    Gulf of Tonkin incident

    USS Maine

    USS liberty

    Operation Gladio
     
  2. Gunny
    Offline

    Gunny Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    44,689
    Thanks Received:
    6,753
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Location:
    The Republic of Texas
    Ratings:
    +6,770
    You forgot:

    Operation Destroy America (mid 1960s and ongoing).

    An ongoing effort by the left-wingnuts in the US to destroy every moral, value, tradition and or wall that makes us who we are so we can coform better to the rest of the appeasing, ostrich societies in the World.
     
  3. StoptheMadness1
    Offline

    StoptheMadness1 Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Messages:
    169
    Thanks Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +14
    Right, so what do you think about the information?
     
  4. Gunny
    Offline

    Gunny Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    44,689
    Thanks Received:
    6,753
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Location:
    The Republic of Texas
    Ratings:
    +6,770
    In a word: KA-KA.

    Revisionist, one-sided versions of history.

    If you ever read the entire sequence of events and radio conversations during the Gulf of Tonkin incident, there was every reason for both the crews of the Maddox, C. Turner Joy, and those in command to believe they were under attack.

    The fact that someone has decided otherwise or that Johnson made up the story to introduce ground combat troops is unsupported by evidence, only speculation.

    Until later proven to be the result of a ruptured boiler, EVERYONE believed the Spanish had mined the Maine. No attempt to deceive.

    At the height of the Cold War, communist nuclear weapons in our back yard was intolerable. No more reason than that required to justify an invasion of Cuba.

    Attempting to draw a comparison to the US Government and Hitler's Third Reich is about as BS as it gets.
     
  5. Annie
    Offline

    Annie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    50,847
    Thanks Received:
    4,644
    Trophy Points:
    1,790
    Ratings:
    +4,770
    Really not sure what you are getting at.

    Hitler carried out your examples.

    Was Operation Northwoods ever implemented?
     
  6. CrimsonWhite
    Offline

    CrimsonWhite *****istrator Emeritus Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,978
    Thanks Received:
    1,755
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Guntucky
    Ratings:
    +1,757
    You compared the United States to Nazi Germany. If we were in a bar together, I would have already kicked your ass.
     
  7. BaronVonBigmeat
    Offline

    BaronVonBigmeat Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,185
    Thanks Received:
    160
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +160
    Are you trying to say that the federal government has put boats in harm's way as a means of getting us into war?

    Why that's preposterous. This is revisionist history*, and complete nonsense.

    * By revisionist history of course I mean that I didn't learn it in high school government-funded history class, therefore it never happened.
     
  8. CSM
    Offline

    CSM Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    6,907
    Thanks Received:
    708
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Northeast US
    Ratings:
    +708
    So you managed to display a bunch of anti-war propaganda...so what. All it proves is that there have been anti-war movements throughout history. All the propaganda you link to has no more factual evidence behind it than the crap they try to produce as "evidence" today.
     
  9. CSM
    Offline

    CSM Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    6,907
    Thanks Received:
    708
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Northeast US
    Ratings:
    +708
    Pretty good info, though I think trying to link the 1960's US JCS to NAzis is a bit over the top. It should be noted that the plan you cite was NOT implemented. It should also be pointed out that it is taken out of historical context; i.e., no supporting documentation approving or disapproving said plan. Empirical data suggests that the plan was NOT implemented (Cuba and Castro are still there!).

    I suppose we should be shocked that the government (specifically the DoD) would draft such a plan at the behest of an outside agency (obviously the CIA) or that individuals within the government could even think that way. But then again, unlike some, I don't have visions of Utopia as an end goal for any nation on this planet.
     
  10. glockmail
    Offline

    glockmail BANNED

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    7,700
    Thanks Received:
    433
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The beautiful Yadkin Valley
    Ratings:
    +438
    It appears that you are merely a student of Howard Zinn. The real version of history is quite different, and much more interesting.
     

Share This Page