"Government" is Not the Problem.

[dblack]

Resolve the 'givens'.

Please explain...

You stipulated - "given the mess of the situation and costs that get passed down to the tax payer ....". THAT's the problem. Patching it with corporatist mandates only kicks the can.

How do you propose we fix it?

Well, if you think EMTALA is the problem, repeal it. If you think the safety nets we have in place are the problem, repeal those. Personally, I don't think either of those is a significant factor. I think the fact that most people who have insurance are over-insured is the bugbear. If we remove the tax and regulatory policies that promote employer provided group insurance, the problem will take care of itself.

How? I'm not seeing the path... close to 20 million have been insured because of the ACA. How does taking away all regulatory and tax policies provide a better solution for our general public?

Because it would force us to be honest and accountable. The biggest problem with the healthcare market is that precious few healthcare consumers are actually paying for their own healthcare. We've become preoccupied with schemes designed to get someone else to pay our bills. Insurance preys on that desire and sells us the fantasy that it can work. But it can't. And it doesn't.

 

[Slade3200]

Please explain...

You stipulated - "given the mess of the situation and costs that get passed down to the tax payer ....". THAT's the problem. Patching it with corporatist mandates only kicks the can.

How do you propose we fix it?

Well, if you think EMTALA is the problem, repeal it. If you think the safety nets we have in place are the problem, repeal those. Personally, I don't think either of those is a significant factor. I think the fact that most people who have insurance are over-insured is the bugbear. If we remove the tax and regulatory policies that promote employer provided group insurance, the problem will take care of itself.

How? I'm not seeing the path... close to 20 million have been insured because of the ACA. How does taking away all regulatory and tax policies provide a better solution for our general public?

Because it would force us to be honest and accountable. The biggest problem with the healthcare market is that precious few healthcare consumers are actually paying for their own healthcare. We've become preoccupied with schemes designed to get someone else to pay our bills. Insurance preys on that desire and sells us the fantasy that it can work. But it can't. And it doesn't.

Are you talking about consumers paying for their own healthcare or healthcare insurance? And no matter what you do there is going to be a percentage that either can't afford to pay for it or they are too lazy to do so... The begs that question, what do you do with them... Let them suffer and die on the streets? Reject them in the emergency room?

 

[dblack]

You stipulated - "given the mess of the situation and costs that get passed down to the tax payer ....". THAT's the problem. Patching it with corporatist mandates only kicks the can.

How do you propose we fix it?

Well, if you think EMTALA is the problem, repeal it. If you think the safety nets we have in place are the problem, repeal those. Personally, I don't think either of those is a significant factor. I think the fact that most people who have insurance are over-insured is the bugbear. If we remove the tax and regulatory policies that promote employer provided group insurance, the problem will take care of itself.

How? I'm not seeing the path... close to 20 million have been insured because of the ACA. How does taking away all regulatory and tax policies provide a better solution for our general public?

Because it would force us to be honest and accountable. The biggest problem with the healthcare market is that precious few healthcare consumers are actually paying for their own healthcare. We've become preoccupied with schemes designed to get someone else to pay our bills. Insurance preys on that desire and sells us the fantasy that it can work. But it can't. And it doesn't.

Are you talking about consumers paying for their own healthcare or healthcare insurance? And no matter what you do there is going to be a percentage that either can't afford to pay for it or they are too lazy to do so... The begs that question, what do you do with them... Let them suffer and die on the streets? Reject them in the emergency room?

We do with them whatever we want to do as a society. I like to think of myself as a compassionate guy, and I have no problem with helping them out. But it should never be a guarantee. Taking care of yourself, and your family is a basic obligation of being a person.

 

[Slade3200]

How do you propose we fix it?

Well, if you think EMTALA is the problem, repeal it. If you think the safety nets we have in place are the problem, repeal those. Personally, I don't think either of those is a significant factor. I think the fact that most people who have insurance are over-insured is the bugbear. If we remove the tax and regulatory policies that promote employer provided group insurance, the problem will take care of itself.

How? I'm not seeing the path... close to 20 million have been insured because of the ACA. How does taking away all regulatory and tax policies provide a better solution for our general public?

Because it would force us to be honest and accountable. The biggest problem with the healthcare market is that precious few healthcare consumers are actually paying for their own healthcare. We've become preoccupied with schemes designed to get someone else to pay our bills. Insurance preys on that desire and sells us the fantasy that it can work. But it can't. And it doesn't.

Are you talking about consumers paying for their own healthcare or healthcare insurance? And no matter what you do there is going to be a percentage that either can't afford to pay for it or they are too lazy to do so... The begs that question, what do you do with them... Let them suffer and die on the streets? Reject them in the emergency room?

We do with them whatever we want to do as a society. I like to think of myself as a compassionate guy, and I have no problem with helping them out. But it should never be a guarantee. Taking care of yourself, and your family is a basic obligation of being a person.

I Agree but those words "we do whatever we want" doesn't mean anything unless you state what it is you want to do and how you want to do it. The reason why there has been talk about healthcare reform for decades and ultimately the ACA is because of the huge amount of problems that arose from inflated healthcare costs and the amount of uninsured people that couldn't afford to pay for the care they needed

 

[Spare_change]

Somewhere along the line, you failed to grasp the very essence of our democracy.

The government does not control the people - the people control the government. With the permission of the people, the government is assigned certain activities that we, in turn, agree to follow. The 'common defense' is obviously the easiest example.

However, for the past 60 years, the government has been usurping, and assigning to itself, the responsibilities of the people. By our inaction, we have allowed the government to amass significant power and control over the people.

This illegal activity is the very essence of the upcoming election. Progressives believe that a strong government is needed to control the people. Conservatives believe that a weak government is needed so it can be controlled BY the people. Both views are Utopian. The answer, as always, lies somewhere in the middle.

The last 8 years have seen a massive push to government control. Four more years, particularly with the SCOTUS hanging in the balance, would be catastrophic to the concept of self-government. In fact, it is fair to say that if the Progressives are successful, the American democracy, as our forefathers intended and our fathers gave their lives for, will morph into a socialist democracy, and fade into the background of history.

When you say "the people" who do you mean? How is that voice heard?

That was exactly the point ... the "people" - you and me - sat on our fat asses and ignored what they were doing. As long as it didn't directly affect us, we ignored it. Instead, we should have made ourselves informed, elected officials who supported our point of view, and directly made our voices heard.

Once, we controlled the government ... WE decided what the policies were going to be. Then, we got fat and lazy ... ignoring our responsibility as citizens, and allowed the government to take over.

Now, it is time to take control back ... by whatever means necessary.

I still don't know what you mean. The people's voice is heard through their vote and the representatives that we elect. Is this process the thing that you are objecting to or are you objecting to the job that our elected officials are doing?

Neither ---- I am objecting to the job YOU did. You allowed our representatives to create fiefdoms and empires, allowed them to usurp our rights and our responsibilities. It was thru the inaction of you and other citizens that has allowed the power paradigm to be turned upside down. And, now, our illustrious progressives have fallen smartly in line and are marching off the cliff of total government control.

Perhaps the voice of the people is different than your voice. Can you accept that?

Duh --- the voice of the people is a collective voice. It isn't yours, and it isn't mine, but all of us together. Therefore, the blame for the government belongs to each one of us --- you and me included.

 

[dblack]

When you say "the people" who do you mean? How is that voice heard?

That was exactly the point ... the "people" - you and me - sat on our fat asses and ignored what they were doing. As long as it didn't directly affect us, we ignored it. Instead, we should have made ourselves informed, elected officials who supported our point of view, and directly made our voices heard.

Once, we controlled the government ... WE decided what the policies were going to be. Then, we got fat and lazy ... ignoring our responsibility as citizens, and allowed the government to take over.

Now, it is time to take control back ... by whatever means necessary.

I still don't know what you mean. The people's voice is heard through their vote and the representatives that we elect. Is this process the thing that you are objecting to or are you objecting to the job that our elected officials are doing?

Neither ---- I am objecting to the job YOU did. You allowed our representatives to create fiefdoms and empires, allowed them to usurp our rights and our responsibilities. It was thru the inaction of you and other citizens that has allowed the power paradigm to be turned upside down. And, now, our illustrious progressives have fallen smartly in line and are marching off the cliff of total government control.

Perhaps the voice of the people is different than your voice. Can you accept that?

Duh --- the voice of the people is a collective voice. It isn't yours, and it isn't mine, but all of us together. Therefore, the blame for the government belongs to each one of us --- you and me included.

The 'voice of the people', when it comes to government, is the voice of the majority. It's almost always in conflict with the minority. Often scapegoating them into subservience.

 

[Slade3200]

When you say "the people" who do you mean? How is that voice heard?

That was exactly the point ... the "people" - you and me - sat on our fat asses and ignored what they were doing. As long as it didn't directly affect us, we ignored it. Instead, we should have made ourselves informed, elected officials who supported our point of view, and directly made our voices heard.

Once, we controlled the government ... WE decided what the policies were going to be. Then, we got fat and lazy ... ignoring our responsibility as citizens, and allowed the government to take over.

Now, it is time to take control back ... by whatever means necessary.

I still don't know what you mean. The people's voice is heard through their vote and the representatives that we elect. Is this process the thing that you are objecting to or are you objecting to the job that our elected officials are doing?

Neither ---- I am objecting to the job YOU did. You allowed our representatives to create fiefdoms and empires, allowed them to usurp our rights and our responsibilities. It was thru the inaction of you and other citizens that has allowed the power paradigm to be turned upside down. And, now, our illustrious progressives have fallen smartly in line and are marching off the cliff of total government control.

Perhaps the voice of the people is different than your voice. Can you accept that?

Duh --- the voice of the people is a collective voice. It isn't yours, and it isn't mine, but all of us together. Therefore, the blame for the government belongs to each one of us --- you and me included.

I'm not the one that is blaming the government for our problems. I see the government as an evolving entity that is made up of the people that the majority elect to run it. I have a problem with the people that no longer can converse and debate using logic and respect. Obama was elected as our leader twice and has been fighting with his co-workers more than receiving their support and guidance. We are constantly fighting with each other rather than working together, listening to ideas, and trying to get shit done.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Government is needed as places that don't have it are very bad places to live. I mean try it sometime, I am sure somalia and Haiti are nice places.

It is the people that are corrupt.

 

[P@triot]

Government is needed as places that don't have it are very bad places to live. I mean try it sometime, I am sure somalia and Haiti are nice places.

It is the people that are corrupt.

Somalia and Haiti are exponentially better places to live than the U.S.S.R. under Vladimir Lenin & Jospeh Stalin, Iraq under Saddam Hussien, and Cuba under Fidel Castro.

The fact is - you're scared stupid that your useless skill set won't be desired in the private sector so you keep advocating for more government waste so that the tax payer is forced to throw money at you. What a scam you run. Incredibly selfish too.

 

[P@triot]

 

[P@triot]

Government sure looks like the problem to me....

EPA Faces More Pressure Over Gold King Mine Spill

 

[P@triot]

"Government is not the problem"?!? Millions of veterans would vehemently disagree...

Veteran Kills Himself in Parking Lot of VA Hospital

 

[Slade3200]

"Government is not the problem"?!? Millions of veterans would vehemently disagree...

Veteran Kills Himself in Parking Lot of VA Hospital

So you're saying that the military is the problem? Or the health care system?

 

[ScienceRocks]

Thank god we have a stable government...We're a first world country only because we do.

 

[ScienceRocks]

"Government is not the problem"?!? Millions of veterans would vehemently disagree...

Veteran Kills Himself in Parking Lot of VA Hospital

So you're saying that the military is the problem? Or the health care system?

Clean air
Clean water
Clean food
Our wonderful national parks
Our work place regs and laws protecting the workers

All a problem to a loserterian like the liar Patriot that isn't really a patriot but a gun sucking hick.

 

[P@triot]

"Government is not the problem"?!? Millions of veterans would vehemently disagree...

Veteran Kills Himself in Parking Lot of VA Hospital

So you're saying that the military is the problem? Or the health care system?

Neither. Reading comprehension is clearly a major issue for you. Furthermore, to be accurate, I am not saying anything. The facts are saying that liberalism has created a federal monstrosity incapable of handling even their most basic functions.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I'll agree that some regulations aren't good as some of them stop medical tech and cures from reaching the market...But, in general regulations are a good thing that make things safer for the consumer and the workers making them.

I'd say government does a lot of good.

 

[P@triot]

"Government is not the problem"?!? Millions of veterans would vehemently disagree...

Veteran Kills Himself in Parking Lot of VA Hospital

So you're saying that the military is the problem? Or the health care system?

Clean air
Clean water
Clean food
Our wonderful national parks
Our work place regs and laws protecting the workers

All a problem to a loserterian like the liar Patriot that isn't really a patriot but a gun sucking hick.

Clean Air? What a second - I thought you lying libtards said that we've polluted the aid to the point where "Global Warming" now poses more of a national security threat than radical islam and thus the reason we need the illegal & unconstitutional EPA?

Clean Water? Tell that to the people of Flynt, Michigan who were poisoned by Dumbocrats with dirty water and then lied to about it.

Keep going, stupid. You continue to contradict your own positions and embarrass yourself.

 

[P@triot]

Thank god we have a stable government...We're a first world country only because we do.

We've always had "stable" government, stupid. What we have now thanks to ignorant liberalism is unsustainable unconstitutional government which is incapable of meeting its most basic functions and is $19 trillion in debt.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Sorry, but any government that doesn't regulate and fine people/companies for trashing our environment is asking for problems. The india or the chinese kinds.

This can be said for air, water and food.

The free market has NEVER respected the health of our environment or its consumer. It is good reason for a government working for the people to demand better.

Those men that you have in your avy wanted the current constitution that allows our government to do the will of the people. Funny, how one can say they're patriot but wish to live in his own shit and force everyone else to do so too.