GopJeff and the Person(s) in the Trinity

[ajwps]

Originally posted by dilloduck

hello again AJ---are you for wiping out all Christians as well as all Muslims ?

I'm not wiping out anyone. Just pointing to gaping holes in only the belief of others who feel that they are the only ones with the exclusive and true knowledge of their gods.

As long as people believe and pray to the god of their choice without threating others with death or worse if they do not convert, then they have betrayed their religion and god.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by NewGuy

He still can't touch me.

I don't believe that I want to touch you in any way. There isn't enough soap on the earth to wipe my hands clean again.

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by ajwps
hello again AJ---are you for wiping out all Christians as well as all Muslims ?

I'm not wiping out anyone. Just pointing to gaping holes in only the belief of others who feel that they are the only ones with the exclusive and true knowledge of their gods.

As long as people believe and pray to the god of their choice without threating others with death or worse if they do not convert, then they have betrayed their religion and god.

You feel threatened by nature----it's impossible to not scare a paranoid---your answer?-----eliminate them or enslave them.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by ajwps
He still can't touch me.

I don't believe that I want to touch you in any way. There isn't enough soap on the earth to wipe my hands clean again.

Don't you mean you don't have enough lambs to sacrifice?

You ought to at least be able to poke holes in my statements, which to date, you have not.

You therefore are wrong.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by NewGuy

I find it funny people CANNOT understand the Trinity. In an apple, you have the seed, the stem, and the fruit. Each has a different function, each is distinct in its part. Each is independant of the other. -Yet each is part of the whole. The fruit fathers the seed. The seed is part of the fruit and yet IS the fruit. The stem is the fruit but is the reason it all is able to grow as a whole. -It is a helper of sorts which connects the line of nourishment between the fruit and the seed. The stem can be referred to as the helper.
The fruit can be the father. The seed can be Jesus.

What is so hard about this?

The problem is you are comparing the unknowable and unfathomnable god with a fruit tree and its seeds.

What are you talking about. This is not an analogy....

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by NewGuy

Don't you mean you don't have enough lambs to sacrifice?

You ought to at least be able to poke holes in my statements, which to date, you have not.

You therefore are wrong.

How can you poke holes in something that is nothing but a big HOLE?

You think that fruit trees and seeds are comparable to the Creator of the universe?

You need real help....

 

[Yurt]

ajwps,

waiting for a reply to what you think of the texts I quoted....

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by dilloduck

You feel threatened by nature----it's impossible to not scare a paranoid---your answer?-----eliminate them or enslave them.

It is not in my power or desire to enslave or eliminate anyone. That seems to be left up to the true believers in FREE SALAVATION from their sins.

There is a big surprise waiting.....

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by ajwps
Don't you mean you don't have enough lambs to sacrifice?

You ought to at least be able to poke holes in my statements, which to date, you have not.

You therefore are wrong.

How can you poke holes in something that is nothing but a big HOLE?

You think that fruit trees and seeds are comparable to the Creator of the universe?

You need real help....

I will take that as a "NewGuy, you are right, I cannot defend against that."

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by ajwps
You feel threatened by nature----it's impossible to not scare a paranoid---your answer?-----eliminate them or enslave them.

It is not in my power or desire to enslave or eliminate anyone. That seems to be left up to the true believers in FREE SALAVATION from their sins.

There is a big surprise waiting.....

weeeeeee haaaaaaaa i HOPE IT'S A PONY !!!!!!

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by Yurt

Just some thoughts...

John 10
30 I and my Father are one.

What happened to the third, the Holy Trinity? Did John forget him?


John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

I'm sorry. But did someone say that they have seen Him that has no form, shape nor anything imaginable by man. Else you would die instantly but I guess John 14 did see Him. Interesting


John 14
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

I knew a guy who was on first base. Did I see him or did I say what I thought was him or did he appear like a mirage? Was John in the same group as Abbott and Costello?


seems that he and his father are one or two or three????

John 14
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

[here seems to indicate that he keeps his father's commandments, yet also says they are "his" commandments. It does seem mildly incongruent, unless one believes as He has said, that I am in the Father and the Father in me, when they asked to see the father.]

Just some thoughts... [/i]

Was John writing in English, Latin, Greek or just plain gibberish?

What do you think?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
weeeeeee haaaaaaaa i HOPE IT'S A PONY !!!!!!

Oh, there is a pony allright. AJ doesn't want to accept it though.

Rev 19:

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by dilloduck

weeeeeee haaaaaaaa i HOPE IT'S A PONY !!!!!!

Nope just a god-man who walked the earth like all men, worked by the sweat of his brow, took in food and expelled it like all men but somehow he was a god born of an earth woman.

You WIN.....

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by NewGuy

Oh, there is a pony allright. AJ doesn't want to accept it though.

Rev 19:

It is at a fair that man can be drunk forever on liquor, love, or fights; at a fair that your front pocket can be picked by a trottinga white horse looking for sugar, and your hind pocket by a thief looking for his fortune.

What does that have to do with Paul's revelations?

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by ajwps
How do you know that Jesus was sinless? Who told you or what signed certificate have you testifying to this fact?

Jesus challenged the Jewish leaders to prove that He had sinned, and none of them could do it. Jesus claimed to be sinless - and indeed, He had to be. If Jesus was to offer Himself as the atoning sacrifice for the world's sins, He could not have any sins of His own; otherwise, His blood would have only paid for His own sins. But as it is, God accepted His sacrifice as an atonement for all sins, because Jesus had no sins of His own to pay for.

G-d said that He created SIN and GOOD.

Ergo, any claim of a sinless G-d is without any basis.

Really?? So God created sin? On which day? And if you believe that God created sin, then how can God be holy?

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by ajwps
Where in the Old Testament (Torah) is their more than ONE jealous Creator who abhors any other foreign gods that man made with his own hands. Out of wood and stone man made them....

Psalm 110:1-5:
The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand,
until I make your enemies your footstool."

The LORD sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter.
Rule in the midst of your enemies!

Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power, in holy garments;
from the womb of the morning, the dew of your youth will be yours.

The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind,
"You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek."

The Lord is at your right hand;
he will shatter kings on the day of his wrath.


Notice that the LORD (Yahweh) says to David's Lord (Adonai) - Sit at my right hand... You are a priest forever." The Lord (Adonai) will shatter kings on the day of His wrath. Obviously, David is calling someone else Lord (Adonai) besides Yahweh (the LORD). Who do you suppose this might be?
Hint: it's Jesus!

 

[Yurt]

Originally posted by ajwps
Just some thoughts...

John 10
30 I and my Father are one.

What happened to the third, the Holy Trinity? Did John forget him?

1 Thessalonians 4
8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

Luke 11
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Who then to you is the spirit??

John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

I'm sorry. But did someone say that they have seen Him that has no form, shape nor anything imaginable by man. Else you would die instantly but I guess John 14 did see Him. Interesting

Because if they have seen JESUS, then they have also seen the father. Goes exactly to the heart that they are one.

John 14
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

I knew a guy who was on first base. Did I see him or did I say what I thought was him or did he appear like a mirage? Was John in the same group as Abbott and Costello?

Ok, answer in a language that we all understand. You are being a smart alek. They were asking Him to show them the Father and then they would believe. He said, that if they have seen him, then they also have seen the father. Again, pointing to their oneness.

seems that he and his father are one or two or three????

*Aah, you are almost grasping the trinity. For if they are one, the spirit, which came "from" God (ergo, must have been part of God), and Jesus, whom God "begot," then we are nearing the concept of the trinity. That God who is all might, gave us part of himself in his "spirit" so we could communicate with him and gave us his Son for our redemption. Think back to the apple and the seed quote.

John 14
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

[here seems to indicate that he keeps his father's commandments, yet also says they are "his" commandments. It does seem mildly incongruent, unless one believes as He has said, that I am in the Father and the Father in me, when they asked to see the father.]

Just some thoughts... [/i]

Was John writing in English, Latin, Greek or just plain gibberish?

What do you think?

I think again, you do not answer questions, rather you give rhetoric in the guise of logic.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by Yurt

1 Thessalonians 4
8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
Luke 11
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Who then to you is the spirit??
Because if they have seen JESUS, then they have also seen the father. Goes exactly to the heart that they are one.
Ok, answer in a language that we all understand. You are being a smart alek. They were asking Him to show them the Father and then they would believe. He said, that if they have seen him, then they also have seen the father. Again, pointing to their oneness.

Why do you think I am being a smart alec?

Quoting any Bible text including the New or Old or Qur'an is interpreted in the mind of the reader.

You are the one who interprets your view of a triune god (three, two or one) persons.

Most any of the great Christian theologans admit that they have no idea of how you get three persons into one god. You are a literalist of the English version of earlier versions rewritten many times during the two eons since a man named Christ died.

You are fighting a losing battle.

*Aah, you are almost grasping the trinity. For if they are one, the spirit, which came "from" God (ergo, must have been part of God), and Jesus, whom God "begot," then we are nearing the concept of the trinity. That God who is all might, gave us part of himself in his "spirit" so we could communicate with him and gave us his Son for our redemption. Think back to the apple and the seed quote. I think again, you do not answer questions, rather you give rhetoric in the guise of logic.

A G-d giving a human god sacrifice is an abomination to He who made mankind. You will find out about your visions of a triune god at the very instant you come to an end in this veil of tears.

Religion is belief and faith while any logic does not enter the picture.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by ajwps
ajwps. Tell us more about the covenant the jews made with god about slicing their foreskins off. Is that logical? SO are you saying god looks at your penis when you pray? How can he do that? Does he have x-ray vision? Please.

What a silly religion you Jews have.

Why does the Gospel include this silly religion in the first section of the Gospels rtwing?

Why does it appear that circumscision is not to prevent potential cancer from the smegma remaining at the end of the uncircumscised penis. But more like a sign to all men that G-d has commanded that males on the eighth day after their birth, the rite of circumscion be made as a sign of G-d's will.

Maybe that is what the murderers like the Nazi's did to find the Jews among the gentiles, whose people look like the rest of the German people, to place them in the gas chambers to their death.

You are truly a ancephalic....

Do you value the gospel? IT seems you find it silly, so using it to support your case when it's convenient will be disallowed. Anyway.

Why didn't god explain it as a premptive strike against penile cancer? Did he think the jews were too stupid to understand that?

That's a strange procedure to represent gods will. Is that logical? I mean, the beany thing is one thing, but this? This is scarification! It seems like issuing a membership card would have been more logical.

 

[Yurt]

Why do you think I am being a smart alec?


You are the one who interprets your view of a triune god (three, two or one) persons.

Most any of the great Christian theologans admit that they have no idea of how you get three persons into one god. You are a literalist of the English version of earlier versions rewritten many times during the two eons since a man named Christ died.

You are fighting a losing battle.

I said you were being a smart alek, because you gave some riddle about seeing someone on first base instead of directly responding to the words in the text. Also, it is not really a losing battle, for I have waged none, I merely seek knowledge and have my opinions. I do not force them on anyone. I do wish though that instead telling me what "most" people think, I want you to examine the words of the text and my argument and go line by line in refuting what I said. You have failed to that. Only you generalize that it is faith.

It actually takes a great of faith on your part to not analyze the actual words being said, but to use etheral metephors. If you counter what I have said by using the actual words of Christ, then I will consider it...