GOP: Should we throw some big money to education to fix our public schools?

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

But education needs more money in this country.

No, it doesn't. It has more than enough funding. It's how the money is spent that's the problem.

Fair enough. My sister did "Teach for America" though, and I've seen what completely neglected schools look like. I live in northern Virginia where the schools are ranked top in the nation. And trust me they have tons of money flowing in. And that's what separates them.

Northern Virginia is full of wealthy suburban residents who are educated, successful people. Educated successful people will typically breed educated successful children. That's why your school districts with the money flowing in generally perform better. It isn't the money and the elaborate buildings generating the results; it's the household environment and parental upbringing.

We spend way more money on public education than our European counterparts and yet they blow us out of the water. Children in Finland, a country consistently ranked as having the best public school system in the world, actually spend less time in school than our kids do and get assigned virtually no homework.

Our problem with the American public school system is cultural first and foremost. Kids with successful parents who care about their education will excel and kids with poorer parents who don't give a shit likely won't. The other problem is the structure of our public education system is completely flawed and needs to be remodeled from top to bottom. Like I said, the money is there, but it's being spent in the wrong places.

I went to a meeting where one of my state reps was speaking back in Massachusetts about eight or nine years ago and he talked about a study that had just been done across the state that concluded there was no correlation between the amount of money spent in a school system and the quality of education the students received. I already pointed out Washington D.C. as an example. New York City schools are another boondoggle where they spend about $20k per student and yet have some of the worst performing schools in the nation. In fact, the poorer urban schools that are poor performing usually have more money spent on each student than the wealthier suburban schools.

The way to fix the public school system is to introduce more competition and fix American culture.

 

[P@triot]

Many public schools in America, particularly in the South and poor parts of the rest of the country. Some say they need more money in the schools to attract and retain the best teachers, and to have better facilities to create a good learning environment. But many don't think so. Many in the right wing say "throwing money at the problem doesn't fix it".

And seeing as it's the last few days of August, it got me thinking about something.

The government run University of Alabama and University of South Carolina. Both have football programs that are ranked in the top 10. Both have head coaches- Nick Saban (Bama) and Steve Spurrier (USC) who are paid MILLIONS in tax payer money. Both have huge stadiums, shining facilities and offices. USC spent $20,000,000 on a scoreboard. YES, a scoreboard. This in a state that has some of the worst public schools and roads in America.

In the early 2000's, Alabama football was bad. Struggling. Losing seasons. South Carolina has traditionally been bad. 0-22 over 2 years at one point.

COACHING is just teaching. That's all these two men do: Teach young men a skill. Just like school teachers do.


So why is it that in the state of South Carolina- run by Tea Party Republicans for a long time now- they say our crumbling roads, awful schools, high crime rate.......are problems that "throwing money at it" wont fix.

But, the states college football team? Millions upon millions go to that, and guess what? They are a top 10 program now, with elite facilities. I mean, a 20M dollar scoreboard?


So, my question for Tea Party Republicans:

Why is it that when it comes to teaching poor black kids math and English, you guys wont "throw money at it", but when it came to teaching poor black kids in the USC football program how to play football, your SC reps were willing to drop tens of millions on it. And guess what....it worked!!! Wonder if the same commitment to the public schools would yield the same results

Fact 1: We spend more on education now than we ever have in U.S. history.

Fact 2: We have worse results now than we ever have in U.S. history.

'Nough said

 

[P@triot]

Derailed into an NEA bashing thread in 3... 2... 1...

As for South Carolina... worst stretches of highway you'll ever drive on.

IMO you can't pay a good teacher enough for the job that they do. As for the bad ones, and there are a lot, I'm all for figuring out what to do with them.

Yep.

Just makes me go "hmmmm" here in Tea Party fantasy land SC.

We wont pay our teachers or cops shit. And as a result, our schools and crime rate are amongst the worst in America. Our roads are falling apart, and are jammed at max capacity in our mid-size cities- no major sized ones.

We wont throw money at that.

But our mediocre SEC football team, after that 0-22 streak, they threw the bank at legendary coaches (aka, TEACHERS) Lou Holtz and Steve Spurrier, and the expensive cast of assistants they brought along with them.

And while many of our schools are old and crumbling, we added a $20,000,000 SCOREBOARD. Not stadium. Not weight room or locker room. S C O R E B O A R D !!!!!

But that shows Tea Party and GOP priorities here. Schools? Crime? Roads? HELL NO!!! We aren't throwing money at that. But the college football team? HELL YES!!!

And that's because politicians know they'll get support from voters for it. The SC tea party voters love football, and will support throwing money for football teachers- but not for schools, road or crime.

And the GOP wants us to vote that mentality into the White House?

What all of you Democrats fail to realize (well, one of many things) is that the money spent on South Carolina football is an investment. The average SEC football team brings in over $50 million per year. Alabama generates over $71 million per year.

Liberals think a person should make "x" amount of dollars because...well...just because... They have no concept of value. They never figured out that a CEO earns as much as they do because of the impact they have generating dollars for an organization. Alex Rodriguez wasn't paid $250 million because the Yankees thought he would help them win. He was paid $250 million because people would pay big money to watch him play and thus he would generate $1 billion for the Yankees.

There is something called R.O.I. (Return On Investment). Liberals really need to study and grasp that concept.

 

[P@triot]

So, my question for Tea Party Republicans:

Why is it that when it comes to teaching poor black kids math and English, you guys wont "throw money at it", but when it came to teaching poor black kids in the USC football program how to play football, your SC reps were willing to drop tens of millions on it. And guess what....it worked!!! Wonder if the same commitment to the public schools would yield the same results

It costs absolutely nothing to properly educate a child:

“A recent study shows that homeschooled kids score almost twice as high on exams as public school students. Other studies show that homeschooled kids score 72 points higher than the national average on SAT exams.15

Homeschoolers are more likely to attend college, are more likely to graduate, and have higher college GPAs (Grade Point Averages) than other students.16

The old wives’ tale spread by the teachers’ unions (who are afraid of competition) is that homeschoolers are not “socialized.” Well, the facts are in. Homeschoolers are almost twice as involved in their local community or church as public school students, and almost three times as involved in politics.17

Homeschooled children also have far fewer behavioral problems”

Excerpt From: Wayne Allyn Root. “The Ultimate Obama Survival Guide.” Regnery Publishing, 2013-03-26. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/ultimate-obama-survival-guide/id601965000?mt=11

 

[P@triot]

The government run University of Alabama and University of South Carolina. Both have football programs that are ranked in the top 10. Both have head coaches- Nick Saban (Bama) and Steve Spurrier (USC) who are paid MILLIONS in tax payer money.

Nick Saban gets paid millions not because he improves anything or makes Alabama a "winner". Nick Saban gets paid $5 million per year because he brings in $71 million per year for the University of Alabama.

It's called ROI. When you pay a teacher, you get nothing in return. Nothing. And educated child means shit to the bottom line. When you pay Nick Saban, you get $71 million in return.

Do you get it now?!?

 

[whitehall]

Fix the system. Address the crumbling gigantic federal education bureaucracy and costly useless education agendas dictated by the bureaucratic misfits who never even saw a student.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The bottom line is that we don't mind spending money on things, whatever leftists want to tell themselves. We DO, however, want to receive something of value in return for our money. If we are NOT receiving it, then - unlike lefists - we don't think the solution is to just spend MORE money on it. We prefer to find out what's wrong and fix it.

Believe it or not, leftists, what's wrong with education is NOT that we aren't spending enough on it. That is the definition of "throwing money at the problem": not being willing to spend money, but automatically and without assuming that spending more will fix everything.

 

[Asclepias]

If you have a crappy administration it doesnt matter how much money you throw at education. The quality of the education and the commitment of the teachers have to be first rate. Make no mistake about it though money is definitely a plus for any school.

 

[ScienceRocks]

We should give more money only if "reforms" are done. The kinds of reforms are "paying" the teachers by students ability. NOT just test scores but a system that pays for a increase in performance.

This is the only way we could improve our educational system. We're 17th for crying out loud in the world.

 

[ScienceRocks]

If you have a crappy administration it doesnt matter how much money you throw at education. The quality of the education and the commitment of the teachers have to be first rate. Make no mistake about it though money is definitely a plus for any school.

Punish the trouble makers
Pay by performance(not just test scores either)
Reform our educational system to teach core subjects; Reading, writing, math, science, history, economics but also hands on stuff like electrical, craftsmen's, carpetarty. etc.

A person must be well rounded and capable coming out of our public school system.

 

[Asclepias]

Throwing money at failing schools has the effect of paying them to fail. If they fail with the extra money they have they will get more. There is no amount of money that will make a student want to learn. If a student wants to learn there is no lack of money that will stop them. It is that simple.

If there could be one thing that would improve failing schools it would be to teach children to read at the earliest possible age and insist that they read until they love it.

A teachers job is to foster an interest in learning along with the parent. If you pay for better teachers they usually get the job done.

 

[g5000]

1. A principal should be able to fire sub-standard teachers without a big struggle.

2. Every child should get a pre-school education.

3. We should be teaching for the jobs of tomorrow, not your father's job.

4. Vouchers.

 

[Asclepias]

If you have a crappy administration it doesnt matter how much money you throw at education. The quality of the education and the commitment of the teachers have to be first rate. Make no mistake about it though money is definitely a plus for any school.

Punish the trouble makers
Pay by performance(not just test scores either)
Reform our educational system to teach core subjects; Reading, writing, math, science, history, economics but also hands on stuff like electrical, craftsmen's, carpetarty. etc.

A person must be well rounded and capable coming out of our public school system.

A lot of schools in CA are going to this exact model. Teachers should still be paid way more. At least 90K

 

[Trajan]

Many public schools in America, particularly in the South and poor parts of the rest of the country. Some say they need more money in the schools to attract and retain the best teachers, and to have better facilities to create a good learning environment. But many don't think so. Many in the right wing say "throwing money at the problem doesn't fix it".

And seeing as it's the last few days of August, it got me thinking about something.

The government run University of Alabama and University of South Carolina. Both have football programs that are ranked in the top 10. Both have head coaches- Nick Saban (Bama) and Steve Spurrier (USC) who are paid MILLIONS in tax payer money. Both have huge stadiums, shining facilities and offices. USC spent $20,000,000 on a scoreboard. YES, a scoreboard. This in a state that has some of the worst public schools and roads in America.

In the early 2000's, Alabama football was bad. Struggling. Losing seasons. South Carolina has traditionally been bad. 0-22 over 2 years at one point.

COACHING is just teaching. That's all these two men do: Teach young men a skill. Just like school teachers do.


So why is it that in the state of South Carolina- run by Tea Party Republicans for a long time now- they say our crumbling roads, awful schools, high crime rate.......are problems that "throwing money at it" wont fix.

But, the states college football team? Millions upon millions go to that, and guess what? They are a top 10 program now, with elite facilities. I mean, a 20M dollar scoreboard?


So, my question for Tea Party Republicans:

Why is it that when it comes to teaching poor black kids math and English, you guys wont "throw money at it", but when it came to teaching poor black kids in the USC football program how to play football, your SC reps were willing to drop tens of millions on it. And guess what....it worked!!! Wonder if the same commitment to the public schools would yield the same results

the gop has been and is fighting for charter schools and vouchers, since well, for over a decade. you ought to do some research before going off on one of your knee jerk sloppy rants.

You do know that for instance; the DC voucher program was killed by the dem congress in 2009, Obama ducked, despite parents from that community protesting etc...there were kids using those vouchers to go to the same school Obamas kids wound up going too....
PostPartisan - Why is Obama killing off D.C.'s voucher program?





Berkeley UC just re-built their stadium ......and the fiscal insanity was evident from the git go, but, meanwhile, Oakland laid off like 20% of their police and some of their teachers, they are right next door, I would think that money would have been better spent there? Eh?




However, Cal not only retrofitted the stadium, it built a new athletic center. The stadium cost $321 million to renovate and the athletic center cost $153 million, according to a San Francisco Chronicle report.

Stadium debt already absorbs 20 percent of intercollegiate athletics' annual income, or roughly $18 million of its $89 million budget. And that pays only the interest.

Cal won't start paying down the principal until 2032, when its yearly payments rise to $26 million, then $37 million, before tapering off in 2051. After a brief respite, Cal will owe a lump sum of $82 million in 2053 alone. Then it will have six decades to pay off the final 17 percent, or $75 million.

more at
Cal's Stadium Renovation Debt Shows Schools Need to Keep Football in Perspective | Bleacher Report

 

[Trajan]

1. A principal should be able to fire sub-standard teachers without a big struggle.

2. Every child should get a pre-school education.

3. We should be teaching for the jobs of tomorrow, not your father's job.

4. Vouchers.

is #2 referring to head start?

I agree with the rest.

 

[ScienceRocks]

If you have a crappy administration it doesnt matter how much money you throw at education. The quality of the education and the commitment of the teachers have to be first rate. Make no mistake about it though money is definitely a plus for any school.

Punish the trouble makers
Pay by performance(not just test scores either)
Reform our educational system to teach core subjects; Reading, writing, math, science, history, economics but also hands on stuff like electrical, craftsmen's, carpetarty. etc.

A person must be well rounded and capable coming out of our public school system.

A lot of schools in CA are going to this exact model. Teachers should still be paid way more. At least 90K

I'll admit that they're far more important then every single player of the nfl, nba or nhl. How about 35k for starters and 90k for a really good teacher? Pay by performance.

 

[Trajan]

If you have a crappy administration it doesnt matter how much money you throw at education. The quality of the education and the commitment of the teachers have to be first rate. Make no mistake about it though money is definitely a plus for any school.

Punish the trouble makers
Pay by performance(not just test scores either)
Reform our educational system to teach core subjects; Reading, writing, math, science, history, economics but also hands on stuff like electrical, craftsmen's, carpetarty. etc.

A person must be well rounded and capable coming out of our public school system.

A lot of schools in CA are going to this exact model. Teachers should still be paid way more. At least 90K

for 9 months work? don't think so, Oh, and some in the system for over 10-15 years make that by the way.

 

[Asclepias]

Punish the trouble makers
Pay by performance(not just test scores either)
Reform our educational system to teach core subjects; Reading, writing, math, science, history, economics but also hands on stuff like electrical, craftsmen's, carpetarty. etc.

A person must be well rounded and capable coming out of our public school system.

A lot of schools in CA are going to this exact model. Teachers should still be paid way more. At least 90K

for 9 months work? don't think so, Oh, and some in the system for over 10-15 years make that by the way.

Call it ROI. The more educated people we have around the better the country will be. I think that should be the starting point. If you stink then you get fired for being incompetent you lose your license and try another gig.

 

[bripat9643]

Throwing money at failing schools has the effect of paying them to fail. If they fail with the extra money they have they will get more. There is no amount of money that will make a student want to learn. If a student wants to learn there is no lack of money that will stop them. It is that simple.

If there could be one thing that would improve failing schools it would be to teach children to read at the earliest possible age and insist that they read until they love it.

A teachers job is to foster an interest in learning along with the parent. If you pay for better teachers they usually get the job done.

That assumes you actually get better teachers.

 

[bripat9643]

A lot of schools in CA are going to this exact model. Teachers should still be paid way more. At least 90K

for 9 months work? don't think so, Oh, and some in the system for over 10-15 years make that by the way.

Call it ROI. The more educated people we have around the better the country will be. I think that should be the starting point. If you stink then you get fired for being incompetent you lose your license and try another gig.

When do public school teachers ever get fired because they stink?