GOP: Should we throw some big money to education to fix our public schools?

[bripat9643]

If you have a crappy administration it doesnt matter how much money you throw at education. The quality of the education and the commitment of the teachers have to be first rate. Make no mistake about it though money is definitely a plus for any school.

Punish the trouble makers
Pay by performance(not just test scores either)
Reform our educational system to teach core subjects; Reading, writing, math, science, history, economics but also hands on stuff like electrical, craftsmen's, carpetarty. etc.

A person must be well rounded and capable coming out of our public school system.

A lot of schools in CA are going to this exact model. Teachers should still be paid way more. At least 90K

If you believe government schools are institutionally capable of such reforms, you're a certified sucker.

 

[Vox]

No, we should not.

we should make the voucher system available for all the parents to choose where they want to educate their kids.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

1. A principal should be able to fire sub-standard teachers without a big struggle.

2. Every child should get a pre-school education.

3. We should be teaching for the jobs of tomorrow, not your father's job.

4. Vouchers.

I disagree with #2. #4 would depend on what kind of system was set up.

 

[Vox]

for 9 months work? don't think so, Oh, and some in the system for over 10-15 years make that by the way.

Call it ROI. The more educated people we have around the better the country will be. I think that should be the starting point. If you stink then you get fired for being incompetent you lose your license and try another gig.

When do public school teachers ever get fired because they stink?

NEVER.

That's why throwing away the money to "fix" the public schools is flushing it down the drain.

Give the parents the ability to choose.

 

[ScienceRocks]

A lot of schools in CA are going to this exact model. Teachers should still be paid way more. At least 90K

for 9 months work? don't think so, Oh, and some in the system for over 10-15 years make that by the way.

Call it ROI. The more educated people we have around the better the country will be. I think that should be the starting point. If you stink then you get fired for being incompetent you lose your license and try another gig.

A teacher that has really good performance should get far more money. Our sports and entertainment "system" works this way...

A really good teacher probably should get 10 times that of a poor one.

 

[Vox]

the public school system doesn't give a shit about the kids. The public school system today exists to benefit the employees of the public school system.

this!!!

 

[Asclepias]

Throwing money at failing schools has the effect of paying them to fail. If they fail with the extra money they have they will get more. There is no amount of money that will make a student want to learn. If a student wants to learn there is no lack of money that will stop them. It is that simple.

If there could be one thing that would improve failing schools it would be to teach children to read at the earliest possible age and insist that they read until they love it.

A teachers job is to foster an interest in learning along with the parent. If you pay for better teachers they usually get the job done.

That assumes you actually get better teachers.

I meet incredibly gifted people everyday that have a penchant for teaching. However they are lost to other fields because of the pay. Raise the starting pay you will get better teachers.

 

[The T]

Many public schools in America, particularly in the South and poor parts of the rest of the country. Some say they need more money in the schools to attract and retain the best teachers, and to have better facilities to create a good learning environment. But many don't think so. Many in the right wing say "throwing money at the problem doesn't fix it".

And seeing as it's the last few days of August, it got me thinking about something.

The government run University of Alabama and University of South Carolina. Both have football programs that are ranked in the top 10. Both have head coaches- Nick Saban (Bama) and Steve Spurrier (USC) who are paid MILLIONS in tax payer money. Both have huge stadiums, shining facilities and offices. USC spent $20,000,000 on a scoreboard. YES, a scoreboard. This in a state that has some of the worst public schools and roads in America.

In the early 2000's, Alabama football was bad. Struggling. Losing seasons. South Carolina has traditionally been bad. 0-22 over 2 years at one point.

COACHING is just teaching. That's all these two men do: Teach young men a skill. Just like school teachers do.


So why is it that in the state of South Carolina- run by Tea Party Republicans for a long time now- they say our crumbling roads, awful schools, high crime rate.......are problems that "throwing money at it" wont fix.

But, the states college football team? Millions upon millions go to that, and guess what? They are a top 10 program now, with elite facilities. I mean, a 20M dollar scoreboard?


So, my question for Tea Party Republicans:

Why is it that when it comes to teaching poor black kids math and English, you guys wont "throw money at it", but when it came to teaching poor black kids in the USC football program how to play football, your SC reps were willing to drop tens of millions on it. And guess what....it worked!!! Wonder if the same commitment to the public schools would yield the same results

How about WE leave education to Local/State, and get the FED and those politicians OUT of the friggin' picture? Deal?

The FED sticks their collective noses where it doesn't belong in too many areas.

 

[Asclepias]

Punish the trouble makers
Pay by performance(not just test scores either)
Reform our educational system to teach core subjects; Reading, writing, math, science, history, economics but also hands on stuff like electrical, craftsmen's, carpetarty. etc.

A person must be well rounded and capable coming out of our public school system.

A lot of schools in CA are going to this exact model. Teachers should still be paid way more. At least 90K

If you believe government schools are institutionally capable of such reforms, you're a certified sucker.

Then I must be a sucker. I have a child that received a full ride academic scholarship and is now working on a masters. Even the masters program is being paid via a scholarship. This all from a public school and my wife and I being involved parents.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Throwing money at failing schools has the effect of paying them to fail. If they fail with the extra money they have they will get more. There is no amount of money that will make a student want to learn. If a student wants to learn there is no lack of money that will stop them. It is that simple.

If there could be one thing that would improve failing schools it would be to teach children to read at the earliest possible age and insist that they read until they love it.

A teachers job is to foster an interest in learning along with the parent. If you pay for better teachers they usually get the job done.

Except that there is nothing in that plan to guarantee that we're "paying for better teachers", rather than simply paying more for teachers who suck . . . which, with teachers' unions on hand, is much more likely.

Basically, the analogy here isn't "We pay a lot for this college sports coach, so we should spend more on public schools." The correct analogy would be if a college paid ME big money to be a coach, and then - when the team lost because I know jack about coaching - decided to solve the problem by giving me a raise to see if my coaching got better.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If you have a crappy administration it doesnt matter how much money you throw at education. The quality of the education and the commitment of the teachers have to be first rate. Make no mistake about it though money is definitely a plus for any school.

Punish the trouble makers
Pay by performance(not just test scores either)
Reform our educational system to teach core subjects; Reading, writing, math, science, history, economics but also hands on stuff like electrical, craftsmen's, carpetarty. etc.

A person must be well rounded and capable coming out of our public school system.

A lot of schools in CA are going to this exact model. Teachers should still be paid way more. At least 90K

Why?

 

[The T]

Throwing money at failing schools has the effect of paying them to fail. If they fail with the extra money they have they will get more. There is no amount of money that will make a student want to learn. If a student wants to learn there is no lack of money that will stop them. It is that simple.

If there could be one thing that would improve failing schools it would be to teach children to read at the earliest possible age and insist that they read until they love it.

A teachers job is to foster an interest in learning along with the parent. If you pay for better teachers they usually get the job done.

Except that there is nothing in that plan to guarantee that we're "paying for better teachers", rather than simply paying more for teachers who suck . . . which, with teachers' unions on hand, is much more likely.

Basically, the analogy here isn't "We pay a lot for this college sports coach, so we should spend more on public schools." The correct analogy would be if a college paid ME big money to be a coach, and then - when the team lost because I know jack about coaching - decided to solve the problem by giving me a raise to see if my coaching got better.

Indeed...throwing money at a problem does NOT correct it...our system is rife with it, and forces us to accept mediocrity, and failure as the norm.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Call it ROI. The more educated people we have around the better the country will be. I think that should be the starting point. If you stink then you get fired for being incompetent you lose your license and try another gig.

When do public school teachers ever get fired because they stink?

NEVER.

That's why throwing away the money to "fix" the public schools is flushing it down the drain.

Give the parents the ability to choose.

I'll betcha if you let all the parents decide where their education dollars should go and took away the requirement to continue funding public schools even when their own children aren't attending them, you'd find the parents being willing to make sure the teachers their children actually use are compensated.

My oldest son used to attend a charter school that all the students LOVED, and they were able to fund their operation and pay their teachers well without accepting any state money.

 

[Cecilie1200]

for 9 months work? don't think so, Oh, and some in the system for over 10-15 years make that by the way.

Call it ROI. The more educated people we have around the better the country will be. I think that should be the starting point. If you stink then you get fired for being incompetent you lose your license and try another gig.

A teacher that has really good performance should get far more money. Our sports and entertainment "system" works this way...

A really good teacher probably should get 10 times that of a poor one.

Well, there's a problem with that. See, merit = more pay in sports and entertainment because those fields generate income and profit. Public education, on the other hand, does not. So that makes the entire concept more difficult.

Personally, I think a poor teacher should just be canned to make way for someone who can do the job competently.

 

[The T]

Call it ROI. The more educated people we have around the better the country will be. I think that should be the starting point. If you stink then you get fired for being incompetent you lose your license and try another gig.

A teacher that has really good performance should get far more money. Our sports and entertainment "system" works this way...

A really good teacher probably should get 10 times that of a poor one.

Well, there's a problem with that. See, merit = more pay in sports and entertainment because those fields generate income and profit. Public education, on the other hand, does not. So that makes the entire concept more difficult.

Personally, I think a poor teacher should just be canned to make way for someone who can do the job competently.

The only 'profit' from education should be outstanding citizens that live their lives to their fullest in the system set up by our Founders and everyone benefits.

What we have now is intolerance, failure, mediocrity, and excuses for it...and the politicos, unions gain from it...society loses and slides...total breakdown of society ensues...

WE are living it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

A lot of schools in CA are going to this exact model. Teachers should still be paid way more. At least 90K

If you believe government schools are institutionally capable of such reforms, you're a certified sucker.

Then I must be a sucker. I have a child that received a full ride academic scholarship and is now working on a masters. Even the masters program is being paid via a scholarship. This all from a public school and my wife and I being involved parents.

Pretty impressive, given his father's difficulties with reading comprehension.

Go look back at the post you allegedly responded to. Did that post say, "If you believe government schools are capable of turning out occasional success stories, you're a sucker"? Or did it say, "If you believe government schools are capable of REFORMS, you're a sucker"? Why, I do believe it asked the SECOND of those two questions. So were you answering the first question because you don't understand what you read, or because you were just kneejerking to an automatic response without prior thought?