Gnostic Christianity

[anwin]

Hi everyone,

I am sure some people would be aware of Gnostic Christianity....which is believed to be the esoteric branch of Christianity. The writings found at the Nag Hammadi site are now commonly referred to as Gnostic Gospels.....which include the Gospel of Thomas and The Gospel of Mary Magdalene.

Some scholars believe that Gnosticism was pre-christian, while others believe that it started as part of Christian teaching itself. People like Valentinus, Simon Magus and others are commonly thought of as Gnostic Christians.

Some people believe that even Jesus himself was a Gnostic teacher who taught the 'secret teachings' to few people like St.Thomas.

Gnostic Christianity is believed to teach reincarnation, spiritual development and about.the.... 'God Within'. It is more universal than the traditional teachings found in the Bible.

The important point here is that the Gnostic teachings of Christianity, the teachings of Sufi's in Islam, The Kabbala of Judaism, Hindu Vedanta and Yoga, Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism and most other spiritual teachings around the world including the Greek 'Know Thyself' ....have lots in common.

World religions really aren't as different from one another as we tend to think. The basic (esoteric) teachings are the same. That's surely a wonderful thing for people around the world to know.

Any views on this?

anwin

 

[defcon4]

Thank you for your post. Unfortunately, most Gnostic Christian teachings were "purged" after the Synod of Nicaea. When people will realize the truth hidden within their religious doctrines, human relations will greatly improve. That will take a long time though.

 

[Iceweasel]

There were many different gnostic sects. They had some common beliefs, probably equivalent to New Age stuff today. It seems to have come from Greek thought and more mystical or spiritual in nature. Some argue that it was that method of looking at the OT texts that led to Christianity. Those that adopted their beliefs to Christianity believed Jesus was purely spiritual and not in the flesh. And Jesus being in the flesh was a big deal to those who believed the "God became one of us" camp, which managed to kill off the naysayers when becoming the catholic church and having the power of the state.

Gnostics sorta went two separate ways, since they believed the spiritual world was all that really mattered they lived very worldly lives. The opposite extreme holed up in fortresses separating themselves from the world to avoid temptations and try to whip their bodies into the spiritual beings they thought they were. I think it's how the monks got started.

 

[anwin]

Thanks for your posts.

Yes.....all religions (even ancient ones like Hinduism and Judaism) have their esoteric and exoteric teachings.

Normally the exoteric teachings were meant for the majority of normal family people who were emotional and not philosophical and intellectual. It was full of stories, myths and legends that were often allegorical and referred to esoteric matters only indirectly. As long as people followed the devotional norms, rituals and practices prescribed by the teachers...they would develop spiritually.

The esoteric (secret) teachings were meant for the more intellectual and mystical minded people who could directly use the teachings in their meditations and spiritual practices.

 

[Iceweasel]

And churches to this day use it to reel people in, the more you stay, pray and pay, the more secrets are revealed unto you. Pretty slick system, really.

 

[koshergrl]

And churches to this day use it to reel people in, the more you stay, pray and pay, the more secrets are revealed unto you. Pretty slick system, really.

The Christian church isn't like that. Nothing is "revealed"..it's all there in the Bible. But the more you read, the more multi-faceted your understanding becomes.

 

[defcon4]

Thanks for your posts.

Yes.....all religions (even ancient ones like Hinduism and Judaism) have their esoteric and exoteric teachings.

Normally the exoteric teachings were meant for the majority of normal family people who were emotional and not philosophical and intellectual. It was full of stories, myths and legends that were often allegorical and referred to esoteric matters only indirectly. As long as people followed the devotional norms, rituals and practices prescribed by the teachers...they would develop spiritually.

The esoteric (secret) teachings were meant for the more intellectual and mystical minded people who could directly use the teachings in their meditations and spiritual practices.

Yes, there is a multilayered message in the holy writs. Sometimes sections in the same writ seem contradicting each other yet if one is blessed with the understanding of the second layer it is a whole different experience.

 

[Iceweasel]

And churches to this day use it to reel people in, the more you stay, pray and pay, the more secrets are revealed unto you. Pretty slick system, really.

The Christian church isn't like that. Nothing is "revealed"..it's all there in the Bible. But the more you read, the more multi-faceted your understanding becomes.

I went to church for 20 years. Yes, they do that, many sermons are geared that way encouraging a deeper understanding. Of course they use the Bible, I've heard many times, it's like an onion, peeling layers off as you gain knowledge. These days I call it brainwashing.

 

[Dajjal]

I have just been reading a fascinating book called, ' the magic of obelisks' by Peter Tompkins. It covers a great deal of early history of the catholic churches purging of heretical beliefs. They killed many thousands of people for questioning the church doctrine. There were many attempts to introduce a more spiritual doctrine that included things like reincarnation theory, and they were all purged. Giordano Bruno even believed the universe is infinite and there are many other inhabited planets, for which he was burned to death.

Giordano Bruno - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[defcon4]

And churches to this day use it to reel people in, the more you stay, pray and pay, the more secrets are revealed unto you. Pretty slick system, really.

The Christian church isn't like that. Nothing is "revealed"..it's all there in the Bible. But the more you read, the more multi-faceted your understanding becomes.

I went to church for 20 years. Yes, they do that, many sermons are geared that way encouraging a deeper understanding. Of course they use the Bible, I've heard many times, it's like an onion, peeling layers off as you gain knowledge. These days I call it brainwashing.

Generally speaking I have to disagree on that one. If you refer to the Jim Jones type Kool-Aid drinking cults, yes; otherwise, no.

 

[koshergrl]

And churches to this day use it to reel people in, the more you stay, pray and pay, the more secrets are revealed unto you. Pretty slick system, really.

The Christian church isn't like that. Nothing is "revealed"..it's all there in the Bible. But the more you read, the more multi-faceted your understanding becomes.

I went to church for 20 years. Yes, they do that, many sermons are geared that way encouraging a deeper understanding. Of course they use the Bible, I've heard many times, it's like an onion, peeling layers off as you gain knowledge. These days I call it brainwashing.

Generally speaking I have to disagree on that one. If you refer to the Jim Jones type Kool-Aid drinking cults, yes; otherwise, no.

He makes the assumption that believers get their understanding from preachers. And they don't. The word is revealed in ever increasing complexity and truthfulness the more one delves into YOURSELF. You attain your own understanding. They don't understand it, because they've never actually committed to studying the bible aside from cursory reading, themselves. And generally speaking, anti-Christians are of the type that will believe anything anti-Christian that a stronger personality feeds them, so they have no concept of what real Christianity is all about...and assume that Christians are just like them.

 

[Iceweasel]

And churches to this day use it to reel people in, the more you stay, pray and pay, the more secrets are revealed unto you. Pretty slick system, really.

The Christian church isn't like that. Nothing is "revealed"..it's all there in the Bible. But the more you read, the more multi-faceted your understanding becomes.

I went to church for 20 years. Yes, they do that, many sermons are geared that way encouraging a deeper understanding. Of course they use the Bible, I've heard many times, it's like an onion, peeling layers off as you gain knowledge. These days I call it brainwashing.

Generally speaking I have to disagree on that one. If you refer to the Jim Jones type Kool-Aid drinking cults, yes; otherwise, no.

No, they all do it. You can't see it when you "believe". You believe because it's true and true because you believe. Been there done that. I know it's hard, once I knew it was all myths it took a good three years before I could say I was done with it. The human mind is an interesting thing.

 

[Iceweasel]

And churches to this day use it to reel people in, the more you stay, pray and pay, the more secrets are revealed unto you. Pretty slick system, really.

The Christian church isn't like that. Nothing is "revealed"..it's all there in the Bible. But the more you read, the more multi-faceted your understanding becomes.

I went to church for 20 years. Yes, they do that, many sermons are geared that way encouraging a deeper understanding. Of course they use the Bible, I've heard many times, it's like an onion, peeling layers off as you gain knowledge. These days I call it brainwashing.

Generally speaking I have to disagree on that one. If you refer to the Jim Jones type Kool-Aid drinking cults, yes; otherwise, no.

He makes the assumption that believers get their understanding from preachers. And they don't. The word is revealed in ever increasing complexity and truthfulness the more one delves into YOURSELF. You attain your own understanding. They don't understand it, because they've never actually committed to studying the bible aside from cursory reading, themselves. And generally speaking, anti-Christians are of the type that will believe anything anti-Christian that a stronger personality feeds them, so they have no concept of what real Christianity is all about...and assume that Christians are just like them.

I haven't made any mistakes. I read the Bible cover to cover three times, owned many versions and studied regularly. You make the mistake of thinking anyone who doesn't believe the ancient stories is the one that's lost. Your arrogance won't make up for it, but that is a typical Christian trait.

 

[defcon4]

And churches to this day use it to reel people in, the more you stay, pray and pay, the more secrets are revealed unto you. Pretty slick system, really.

The Christian church isn't like that. Nothing is "revealed"..it's all there in the Bible. But the more you read, the more multi-faceted your understanding becomes.

I went to church for 20 years. Yes, they do that, many sermons are geared that way encouraging a deeper understanding. Of course they use the Bible, I've heard many times, it's like an onion, peeling layers off as you gain knowledge. These days I call it brainwashing.

Generally speaking I have to disagree on that one. If you refer to the Jim Jones type Kool-Aid drinking cults, yes; otherwise, no.

No, they all do it. You can't see it when you "believe". You believe because it's true and true because you believe. Been there done that. I know it's hard, once I knew it was all myths it took a good three years before I could say I was done with it. The human mind is an interesting thing.

I am not in organized religion. I still respect other's beliefs and stand up for their right to free religion when some tries to abuse and trash their belief.
Read this very tiny book from Karl von Eckartshausen: Cloud Upon The Sanctuary. It's only 42 pages. That may give you some insight why religion is important (even if you do not practice it) and the book is not a proselytizing crusade in any way, shape and form. Do not think it is a Watchtower or Mormon publication, haha.. it is definitely not.

 

[defcon4]

You make the mistake of thinking anyone who doesn't believe the ancient stories is the one that's lost.

If you read them superficially, they seem to be just stories…

 

[Iceweasel]

You make the mistake of thinking anyone who doesn't believe the ancient stories is the one that's lost.

If you read them superficially, they seem to be just stories…

There's the assumption again. Let me ask you this then, how is it that the various denominations come up with different conclusions reading the same book and inspired by the same God?

The answer is people believe what they want. There's a lot of wisdom written in the Bible but the supernatural stuff is man made. And calling me anti-Christian (not you but the other) is wrong, I'm typically supportive of Christians and the good work they do. Neither am I an atheist, I just choose to say "I don't know" instead of pretending I have the revealed answers, like I used to.

 

[Iceweasel]

I am not in organized religion. I still respect other's beliefs and stand up for their right to free religion when some tries to abuse and trash their belief.
Read this very tiny book from Karl von Eckartshausen: Cloud Upon The Sanctuary. It's only 42 pages. That may give you some insight why religion is important (even if you do not practice it) and the book is not a proselytizing crusade in any way, shape and form. Do not think it is a Watchtower or Mormon publication, haha.. it is definitely not.

I could write my own book. Maybe I will someday. I didn't trash Christianity, I said the truth, it's made up stuff collected over a period of time and makes no sense. There's a reason it's called a faith, not a fact. The more you learn the more faith you need.

 

[defcon4]

There's the assumption again. Let me ask you this then, how is it that the various denominations come up with different conclusions reading the same book and inspired by the same God?

If those preachers and priests know Greek and Hebrew, it doesn't mean they have ever gotten to the layer beneath the surface...

There's a lot of wisdom written in the Bible but the supernatural stuff is man made.

The unexplainable doesn't necessarily mean supernatural. It could be a perfectly natural thing what we have no explanation for so far. Many of yesterdays miracles (supernatural) are common knowledge today.

I didn't trash Christianity

I know you did not, I should have made it clear it was not aimed at you.
Give a try to that little book I mentioned.

 

[defcon4]

And churches to this day use it to reel people in, the more you stay, pray and pay, the more secrets are revealed unto you. Pretty slick system, really.

The Christian church isn't like that. Nothing is "revealed"..it's all there in the Bible. But the more you read, the more multi-faceted your understanding becomes.

I went to church for 20 years. Yes, they do that, many sermons are geared that way encouraging a deeper understanding. Of course they use the Bible, I've heard many times, it's like an onion, peeling layers off as you gain knowledge. These days I call it brainwashing.

Generally speaking I have to disagree on that one. If you refer to the Jim Jones type Kool-Aid drinking cults, yes; otherwise, no.

He makes the assumption that believers get their understanding from preachers. And they don't. The word is revealed in ever increasing complexity and truthfulness the more one delves into YOURSELF. You attain your own understanding. They don't understand it, because they've never actually committed to studying the bible aside from cursory reading, themselves. And generally speaking, anti-Christians are of the type that will believe anything anti-Christian that a stronger personality feeds them, so they have no concept of what real Christianity is all about...and assume that Christians are just like them.

I haven't made any mistakes. I read the Bible cover to cover three times, owned many versions and studied regularly. You make the mistake of thinking anyone who doesn't believe the ancient stories is the one that's lost. Your arrogance won't make up for it, but that is a typical Christian trait.

The Cloud upon the Sanctuary Karl von Eckartshausen 9781442161207 Amazon.com Books

 

[koshergrl]

And churches to this day use it to reel people in, the more you stay, pray and pay, the more secrets are revealed unto you. Pretty slick system, really.

The Christian church isn't like that. Nothing is "revealed"..it's all there in the Bible. But the more you read, the more multi-faceted your understanding becomes.

I went to church for 20 years. Yes, they do that, many sermons are geared that way encouraging a deeper understanding. Of course they use the Bible, I've heard many times, it's like an onion, peeling layers off as you gain knowledge. These days I call it brainwashing.

Generally speaking I have to disagree on that one. If you refer to the Jim Jones type Kool-Aid drinking cults, yes; otherwise, no.

He makes the assumption that believers get their understanding from preachers. And they don't. The word is revealed in ever increasing complexity and truthfulness the more one delves into YOURSELF. You attain your own understanding. They don't understand it, because they've never actually committed to studying the bible aside from cursory reading, themselves. And generally speaking, anti-Christians are of the type that will believe anything anti-Christian that a stronger personality feeds them, so they have no concept of what real Christianity is all about...and assume that Christians are just like them.

I haven't made any mistakes. I read the Bible cover to cover three times, owned many versions and studied regularly. You make the mistake of thinking anyone who doesn't believe the ancient stories is the one that's lost. Your arrogance won't make up for it, but that is a typical Christian trait.

No, it's not. And it's not a trait of mine, either. In fact, you just proved my point. Thank you.