Giving thanks... for capitalism

[Little-Acorn]

Obama obviously simpleton.

You named broad issues, those aren't Democratic offers of compromise. What did the Democrats offer the Republicans? That was the question, Junior. How stupid are you?

Please don't feed the trolls.

 

[Little-Acorn]

To bring the subject back to the original once again:

We still hear the whines and fears of liberals who believe that an entire nation full of people working mostly for their own good, can never coalesce to form a nation where the good of all is overall increased steadily, day after day, year after year.

Available evidence indicates otherwise. 200 years' worth.

A timely reprint, slightly updated.

----------------------------------

Jeff Jacoby
Giving thanks for Capitalism

by Jeff Jacoby
Nov. 27, 2003

Today, in millions of homes across the nation, God will be thanked for many gifts — for the feast on the table and the company of loved ones, for health and good fortune in the year gone by, for peace at home in a time of war, for the incalculable privilege of having been born — or having become — American.

But it probably won't occur to too many of us to give thanks for the fact that the local supermarket had plenty of turkey for sale this week. Even the devout aren't likely to thank God for airline schedules that made it possible for some of those loved ones to fly home for Thanksgiving. Or for the arrival of "Twilight Saga, Part 2" at the local movie theater in time for the holiday weekend. Or for that great cranberry-apple pie recipe in the food section of the newspaper.

Those things we take more or less for granted. It hardly takes a miracle to explain why grocery stores stock up on turkey before Thanksgiving, or why Hollywood releases big movies in time for big holidays. That's what they do. Where is God in that?

And yet, isn't there something wondrous — something almost inexplicable — in the way your Thanksgiving weekend is made possible by the skill and labor of vast numbers of total strangers?

To bring that turkey to the dining room table, for example, required the efforts of thousands of people — the poultry farmers who raised the birds, of course, but also the feed distributors who supplied their nourishment and the truckers who brought it to the farm, not to mention the architect who designed the hatchery, the workmen who built it, and the technicians who keep it running. The bird had to be slaughtered and defeathered and inspected and transported and unloaded and wrapped and priced and displayed. The people who accomplished those tasks were supported in turn by armies of other people accomplishing other tasks — from refining the gasoline that fueled the trucks to manufacturing the plastic in which the meat was wrapped.

The activities of countless far-flung men and women over the course of many months had to be intricately choreographed and precisely timed, so that when you showed up to buy a fresh Thanksgiving turkey, there would be one — or more likely, a couple dozen — waiting. The level of coordination required to pull it off is mind-boggling. But what is even more mind-boggling is this: No one coordinated it.

No turkey czar sat in a command post somewhere, consulting a master plan. No one rode herd on all those people, forcing them to cooperate for your benefit. And yet they did cooperate. When you arrived at the supermarket, your turkey was there. You didn't have to do anything but show up to buy it. If that isn't a miracle, what should we call it?

Adam Smith called it "the invisible hand" — the mysterious power that leads innumerable people, each working for his own gain, to promote ends that benefit many. Out of the seeming chaos of millions of uncoordinated private transactions emerges the spontaneous order of the market. Free human beings freely interact, and the result is an array of goods and services more immense than the human mind can comprehend. No dictator, no bureaucracy, no supercomputer plans it in advance. Indeed, the more an economy is planned, the more it is plagued by shortages, dislocation, and failure.

It is commonplace to speak of seeing God's signature in the intricacy of a spider's web or the animation of a beehive. But they pale in comparison to the kaleidoscopic energy and productivity of the free market. If it is a blessing from Heaven when seeds are transformed into grain, how much more of a blessing is it when our private, voluntary exchanges are transformed — without our ever intending it — into prosperity, innovation, and growth?

The social order of freedom, like the wealth and the progress it makes possible, is an extraordinary gift from above. On this Thanksgiving Day and every day, may we be grateful.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

“We still hear the whines and fears of liberals…”

No, what we still hear is a straw man fallacy from the OP.

Liberals are now and have always been advocates of capitalism, they promote capitalism, benefit from capitalism, and wish to see it replaced by no other economic system.

What confuses the OP and most others on the right is the pragmatism of liberals, the correct understanding by liberals that capitalism is not perfect, that necessary and proper regulatory policy as authorized by Commerce Clause jurisprudence is a warranted and appropriate response to the shortcomings of capitalism.

Consequently, the OP’s premise fails as a lie.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

We still hear the whines and fears of liberals who believe that an entire nation full of people working mostly for their own good, can never coalesce to form a nation where the good of all is overall increased steadily, day after day, year after year.

Available evidence indicates otherwise. 200 years' worth.

A timely reprint, slightly updated.

----------------------------------

Jeff Jacoby
Giving thanks for Capitalism

by Jeff Jacoby
Nov. 27, 2003

Today, in millions of homes across the nation, God will be thanked for many gifts — for the feast on the table and the company of loved ones, for health and good fortune in the year gone by, for peace at home in a time of war, for the incalculable privilege of having been born — or having become — American.

But it probably won't occur to too many of us to give thanks for the fact that the local supermarket had plenty of turkey for sale this week. Even the devout aren't likely to thank God for airline schedules that made it possible for some of those loved ones to fly home for Thanksgiving. Or for the arrival of "Twilight Saga, Part 2" at the local movie theater in time for the holiday weekend. Or for that great cranberry-apple pie recipe in the food section of the newspaper.

Those things we take more or less for granted. It hardly takes a miracle to explain why grocery stores stock up on turkey before Thanksgiving, or why Hollywood releases big movies in time for big holidays. That's what they do. Where is God in that?

And yet, isn't there something wondrous — something almost inexplicable — in the way your Thanksgiving weekend is made possible by the skill and labor of vast numbers of total strangers?

To bring that turkey to the dining room table, for example, required the efforts of thousands of people — the poultry farmers who raised the birds, of course, but also the feed distributors who supplied their nourishment and the truckers who brought it to the farm, not to mention the architect who designed the hatchery, the workmen who built it, and the technicians who keep it running. The bird had to be slaughtered and defeathered and inspected and transported and unloaded and wrapped and priced and displayed. The people who accomplished those tasks were supported in turn by armies of other people accomplishing other tasks — from refining the gasoline that fueled the trucks to manufacturing the plastic in which the meat was wrapped.

The activities of countless far-flung men and women over the course of many months had to be intricately choreographed and precisely timed, so that when you showed up to buy a fresh Thanksgiving turkey, there would be one — or more likely, a couple dozen — waiting. The level of coordination required to pull it off is mind-boggling. But what is even more mind-boggling is this: No one coordinated it.

No turkey czar sat in a command post somewhere, consulting a master plan. No one rode herd on all those people, forcing them to cooperate for your benefit. And yet they did cooperate. When you arrived at the supermarket, your turkey was there. You didn't have to do anything but show up to buy it. If that isn't a miracle, what should we call it?

Adam Smith called it "the invisible hand" — the mysterious power that leads innumerable people, each working for his own gain, to promote ends that benefit many. Out of the seeming chaos of millions of uncoordinated private transactions emerges the spontaneous order of the market. Free human beings freely interact, and the result is an array of goods and services more immense than the human mind can comprehend. No dictator, no bureaucracy, no supercomputer plans it in advance. Indeed, the more an economy is planned, the more it is plagued by shortages, dislocation, and failure.

It is commonplace to speak of seeing God's signature in the intricacy of a spider's web or the animation of a beehive. But they pale in comparison to the kaleidoscopic energy and productivity of the free market. If it is a blessing from Heaven when seeds are transformed into grain, how much more of a blessing is it when our private, voluntary exchanges are transformed — without our ever intending it — into prosperity, innovation, and growth?

The social order of freedom, like the wealth and the progress it makes possible, is an extraordinary gift from above. On this Thanksgiving Day and every day, may we be grateful.

The reality is that neither liberals nor conservatives believe in pure capitalism. A pure laissez-faire capitalist society does not exist today, has never existed, and probably never will.

It's impossible. Capitalism doesn't work in a vacuum, which is why such a thing isn't possible. An amoral system without controls would eat itself in no time, like pure Democracy.

That's just a lot of horse manure signifying nothing.

No, it's how life works, in the real world that is.

Horseshit.

You have zero understanding of capitalism. We've been through this before.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

What is the role of government, if not to make laws and enforce those laws?

Can you maybe bring your question down from 50K feet to where there's an actual point I can address?

He could put it at the 5ft level, and you'd still be clueless.

Yes, I still am not clicking with that you two geniuses would make better choices over my life than I do. My bad. That government will solve our problems for us by removing choice is upon examination the idiocy that it appears to be at first blush.

The government limits your choices, even makes some for you, and after that it's up to you. What part of this don't you get, or are you just one of those Ayn Rand kids who wants to do whatever they want all the damn time, the kind who thinks society doesn't exist and being selfish is moral?

The part we don't get is why anyone, save a brainwashed toady, would think letting government make choices for you is a good idea.

Because they know more that you do, a lot more. They already limit your choices, you are just too stupid to get that part. They can make choices for the good of the majority and the country, while you can see no one but yourself.

 

[bripat9643]

The reality is that neither liberals nor conservatives believe in pure capitalism. A pure laissez-faire capitalist society does not exist today, has never existed, and probably never will.

It's impossible. Capitalism doesn't work in a vacuum, which is why such a thing isn't possible. An amoral system without controls would eat itself in no time, like pure Democracy.

That's just a lot of horse manure signifying nothing.

No, it's how life works, in the real world that is.

Horseshit.

You have zero understanding of capitalism. We've been through this before.

Irony.

 

[bripat9643]

Can you maybe bring your question down from 50K feet to where there's an actual point I can address?

He could put it at the 5ft level, and you'd still be clueless.

Yes, I still am not clicking with that you two geniuses would make better choices over my life than I do. My bad. That government will solve our problems for us by removing choice is upon examination the idiocy that it appears to be at first blush.

The government limits your choices, even makes some for you, and after that it's up to you. What part of this don't you get, or are you just one of those Ayn Rand kids who wants to do whatever they want all the damn time, the kind who thinks society doesn't exist and being selfish is moral?

The part we don't get is why anyone, save a brainwashed toady, would think letting government make choices for you is a good idea.

Because they know more that you do, a lot more. They already limit your choices, you are just too stupid to get that part. They can make choices for the good of the majority and the country, while you can see no one but yourself.

Government makes choices that are good for government, and screw the rest of us. You're so gullible you actually believe bureaucrats and politicians are looking out for your best interests.

Sad, really.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

He could put it at the 5ft level, and you'd still be clueless.

Yes, I still am not clicking with that you two geniuses would make better choices over my life than I do. My bad. That government will solve our problems for us by removing choice is upon examination the idiocy that it appears to be at first blush.

The government limits your choices, even makes some for you, and after that it's up to you. What part of this don't you get, or are you just one of those Ayn Rand kids who wants to do whatever they want all the damn time, the kind who thinks society doesn't exist and being selfish is moral?

The part we don't get is why anyone, save a brainwashed toady, would think letting government make choices for you is a good idea.

Because they know more that you do, a lot more. They already limit your choices, you are just too stupid to get that part. They can make choices for the good of the majority and the country, while you can see no one but yourself.

Government makes choices that are good for government, and screw the rest of us. You're so gullible you actually believe bureaucrats and politicians are looking out for your best interests.

Sad, really.

Sometimes they are dummy. It's why we built this thing, it wasn't just for the hell of it.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

It's impossible. Capitalism doesn't work in a vacuum, which is why such a thing isn't possible. An amoral system without controls would eat itself in no time, like pure Democracy.

That's just a lot of horse manure signifying nothing.

No, it's how life works, in the real world that is.

Horseshit.

You have zero understanding of capitalism. We've been through this before.

Irony.

There's nothing ironic about it at all. You have dogma, I have knowledge and understanding.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, I still am not clicking with that you two geniuses would make better choices over my life than I do. My bad. That government will solve our problems for us by removing choice is upon examination the idiocy that it appears to be at first blush.

The government limits your choices, even makes some for you, and after that it's up to you. What part of this don't you get, or are you just one of those Ayn Rand kids who wants to do whatever they want all the damn time, the kind who thinks society doesn't exist and being selfish is moral?

The part we don't get is why anyone, save a brainwashed toady, would think letting government make choices for you is a good idea.

Because they know more that you do, a lot more. They already limit your choices, you are just too stupid to get that part. They can make choices for the good of the majority and the country, while you can see no one but yourself.

Government makes choices that are good for government, and screw the rest of us. You're so gullible you actually believe bureaucrats and politicians are looking out for your best interests.

Sad, really.

Sometimes they are dummy. It's why we built this thing, it wasn't just for the hell of it.

"We" didn't build it. A bunch of gullible servile toadies like you built it. And you enjoy it when the politicians and bureaucrats tell you to bend over.

 

[bripat9643]

That's just a lot of horse manure signifying nothing.

No, it's how life works, in the real world that is.

Horseshit.

You have zero understanding of capitalism. We've been through this before.

Irony.

There's nothing ironic about it at all. You have dogma, I have knowledge and understanding.

Even more ironic!

 

[Little-Acorn]

Capitalism is just economic freedom. It is where consumers, producers ,employers, employees all compete in an open marketplace. It is the absence of coercion, which can only be done by government because only government can use force. It's not a "tool," that doesn't make sense.

Very true.

Of course, government does have a role in capitalism. With no government, you have anarchy (in capitalism or any other system). You have the possibility that someone who accumulates enough money or goods or other resources, can start abusing those around him - kneecapping people who try to compete, stealing others' stuff, intimidating others etc. And govenment's proper role is to pursue, prosecute, and punish the ones who try that. Whether the abusers are citizens of your own country, or intruders (or attackers) from other countr(ies).

Government's role is NOT to set prices. Or wages. Or to take money from some people simply to give it to others. Or to decide what light bulbs we all should use, or what toilets, or what health care plans we should all sign up for.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Capitalism is just economic freedom. It is where consumers, producers ,employers, employees all compete in an open marketplace. It is the absence of coercion, which can only be done by government because only government can use force. It's not a "tool," that doesn't make sense.

Very true.

Of course, government does have a role in capitalism. With no government, you have anarchy (in capitalism or any other system). You have the possibility that someone who accumulates enough money or goods or other resources, can start abusing those around him - kneecapping people who try to compete, stealing others' stuff, intimidating others etc. And govenment's proper role is to pursue, prosecute, and punish the ones who try that. Whether the abusers are citizens of your own country, or intruders (or attackers) from other countr(ies).

Government's role is NOT to set prices. Or wages. Or to take money from some people simply to give it to others. Or to decide what light bulbs we all should use, or what toilets, or what health care plans we should all sign up for.

God I wish to hell you people would learn capitalism. At least in the middle part you got something just remotely right, if I give it a massive pass that is and here I have to.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

No, it's how life works, in the real world that is.

Horseshit.

You have zero understanding of capitalism. We've been through this before.

Irony.

There's nothing ironic about it at all. You have dogma, I have knowledge and understanding.

Even more ironic!

Why you don't you go play that role-playing game you like, that's what you're good for.

 

[bripat9643]

Horseshit.

You have zero understanding of capitalism. We've been through this before.

Irony.

There's nothing ironic about it at all. You have dogma, I have knowledge and understanding.

Even more ironic!

Why you don't you go play that role-playing game you like, that's what you're good for.

I thought you were the one who was into role playing, like now when you're pretending to be someone who actually knows something

 

[Little-Acorn]

I thought you were the one who was into role playing, like now when you're pretending to be someone who actually knows something

PLEASE don't feed the trolls.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You have zero understanding of capitalism. We've been through this before.

Irony.

There's nothing ironic about it at all. You have dogma, I have knowledge and understanding.

Even more ironic!

Why you don't you go play that role-playing game you like, that's what you're good for.

I thought you were the one who was into role playing, like now when you're pretending to be someone who actually knows something

I never need to pretend, that's your world little man. Reality is not to your liking, obviously.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I thought you were the one who was into role playing, like now when you're pretending to be someone who actually knows something

PLEASE don't feed the trolls.

Why don't you go fuck yourself? No one cares and you're not a Mod.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I have THAT troll on permanent ignore.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I have THAT troll on permanent ignore.

What's the Chief Sellout? You don't care that Whitey slaughtered your ancestors because now you have big screen TV? Right, got that part. At least the House ****** has someone to fetch the wood. I hear Indians are good at that.