Giving thanks... for capitalism

[regent]

A great little engine but you don't yet the engine steer the car.

You making your own decisions is no way to steer your car, government using force to make your decisions for you is. Keep posting, Junior, that's the only way to get through to people who don't get it what idiocy liberalism is.

 

[bripat9643]

We still hear the whines and fears of liberals who believe that an entire nation full of people working mostly for their own good, can never coalesce to form a nation where the good of all is overall increased steadily, day after day, year after year.

Available evidence indicates otherwise. 200 years' worth.

A timely reprint, slightly updated.

----------------------------------

Jeff Jacoby
Giving thanks for Capitalism

by Jeff Jacoby
Nov. 27, 2003

Today, in millions of homes across the nation, God will be thanked for many gifts — for the feast on the table and the company of loved ones, for health and good fortune in the year gone by, for peace at home in a time of war, for the incalculable privilege of having been born — or having become — American.

But it probably won't occur to too many of us to give thanks for the fact that the local supermarket had plenty of turkey for sale this week. Even the devout aren't likely to thank God for airline schedules that made it possible for some of those loved ones to fly home for Thanksgiving. Or for the arrival of "Twilight Saga, Part 2" at the local movie theater in time for the holiday weekend. Or for that great cranberry-apple pie recipe in the food section of the newspaper.

Those things we take more or less for granted. It hardly takes a miracle to explain why grocery stores stock up on turkey before Thanksgiving, or why Hollywood releases big movies in time for big holidays. That's what they do. Where is God in that?

And yet, isn't there something wondrous — something almost inexplicable — in the way your Thanksgiving weekend is made possible by the skill and labor of vast numbers of total strangers?

To bring that turkey to the dining room table, for example, required the efforts of thousands of people — the poultry farmers who raised the birds, of course, but also the feed distributors who supplied their nourishment and the truckers who brought it to the farm, not to mention the architect who designed the hatchery, the workmen who built it, and the technicians who keep it running. The bird had to be slaughtered and defeathered and inspected and transported and unloaded and wrapped and priced and displayed. The people who accomplished those tasks were supported in turn by armies of other people accomplishing other tasks — from refining the gasoline that fueled the trucks to manufacturing the plastic in which the meat was wrapped.

The activities of countless far-flung men and women over the course of many months had to be intricately choreographed and precisely timed, so that when you showed up to buy a fresh Thanksgiving turkey, there would be one — or more likely, a couple dozen — waiting. The level of coordination required to pull it off is mind-boggling. But what is even more mind-boggling is this: No one coordinated it.

No turkey czar sat in a command post somewhere, consulting a master plan. No one rode herd on all those people, forcing them to cooperate for your benefit. And yet they did cooperate. When you arrived at the supermarket, your turkey was there. You didn't have to do anything but show up to buy it. If that isn't a miracle, what should we call it?

Adam Smith called it "the invisible hand" — the mysterious power that leads innumerable people, each working for his own gain, to promote ends that benefit many. Out of the seeming chaos of millions of uncoordinated private transactions emerges the spontaneous order of the market. Free human beings freely interact, and the result is an array of goods and services more immense than the human mind can comprehend. No dictator, no bureaucracy, no supercomputer plans it in advance. Indeed, the more an economy is planned, the more it is plagued by shortages, dislocation, and failure.

It is commonplace to speak of seeing God's signature in the intricacy of a spider's web or the animation of a beehive. But they pale in comparison to the kaleidoscopic energy and productivity of the free market. If it is a blessing from Heaven when seeds are transformed into grain, how much more of a blessing is it when our private, voluntary exchanges are transformed — without our ever intending it — into prosperity, innovation, and growth?

The social order of freedom, like the wealth and the progress it makes possible, is an extraordinary gift from above. On this Thanksgiving Day and every day, may we be grateful.

The reality is that neither liberals nor conservatives believe in pure capitalism. A pure laissez-faire capitalist society does not exist today, has never existed, and probably never will.

It's impossible. Capitalism doesn't work in a vacuum, which is why such a thing isn't possible. An amoral system without controls would eat itself in no time, like pure Democracy.

That's just a lot of horse manure signifying nothing.

 

[regent]

A great little engine but you don't yet the engine steer the car.

You making your own decisions is no way to steer your car, government using force to make your decisions for you is. Keep posting, Junior, that's the only way to get through to people who don't get it what idiocy liberalism is.[/QUOTE
What is the role of government, if not to make laws and enforce those laws?

 

[bripat9643]

A great little engine but you don't yet the engine steer the car.

You making your own decisions is no way to steer your car, government using force to make your decisions for you is. Keep posting, Junior, that's the only way to get through to people who don't get it what idiocy liberalism is.[/QUOTE
What is the role of government, if not to make laws and enforce those laws?

Haven't figured out how this forum works, have you?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

We still hear the whines and fears of liberals who believe that an entire nation full of people working mostly for their own good, can never coalesce to form a nation where the good of all is overall increased steadily, day after day, year after year.

Available evidence indicates otherwise. 200 years' worth.

A timely reprint, slightly updated.

----------------------------------

Jeff Jacoby
Giving thanks for Capitalism

by Jeff Jacoby
Nov. 27, 2003

Today, in millions of homes across the nation, God will be thanked for many gifts — for the feast on the table and the company of loved ones, for health and good fortune in the year gone by, for peace at home in a time of war, for the incalculable privilege of having been born — or having become — American.

But it probably won't occur to too many of us to give thanks for the fact that the local supermarket had plenty of turkey for sale this week. Even the devout aren't likely to thank God for airline schedules that made it possible for some of those loved ones to fly home for Thanksgiving. Or for the arrival of "Twilight Saga, Part 2" at the local movie theater in time for the holiday weekend. Or for that great cranberry-apple pie recipe in the food section of the newspaper.

Those things we take more or less for granted. It hardly takes a miracle to explain why grocery stores stock up on turkey before Thanksgiving, or why Hollywood releases big movies in time for big holidays. That's what they do. Where is God in that?

And yet, isn't there something wondrous — something almost inexplicable — in the way your Thanksgiving weekend is made possible by the skill and labor of vast numbers of total strangers?

To bring that turkey to the dining room table, for example, required the efforts of thousands of people — the poultry farmers who raised the birds, of course, but also the feed distributors who supplied their nourishment and the truckers who brought it to the farm, not to mention the architect who designed the hatchery, the workmen who built it, and the technicians who keep it running. The bird had to be slaughtered and defeathered and inspected and transported and unloaded and wrapped and priced and displayed. The people who accomplished those tasks were supported in turn by armies of other people accomplishing other tasks — from refining the gasoline that fueled the trucks to manufacturing the plastic in which the meat was wrapped.

The activities of countless far-flung men and women over the course of many months had to be intricately choreographed and precisely timed, so that when you showed up to buy a fresh Thanksgiving turkey, there would be one — or more likely, a couple dozen — waiting. The level of coordination required to pull it off is mind-boggling. But what is even more mind-boggling is this: No one coordinated it.

No turkey czar sat in a command post somewhere, consulting a master plan. No one rode herd on all those people, forcing them to cooperate for your benefit. And yet they did cooperate. When you arrived at the supermarket, your turkey was there. You didn't have to do anything but show up to buy it. If that isn't a miracle, what should we call it?

Adam Smith called it "the invisible hand" — the mysterious power that leads innumerable people, each working for his own gain, to promote ends that benefit many. Out of the seeming chaos of millions of uncoordinated private transactions emerges the spontaneous order of the market. Free human beings freely interact, and the result is an array of goods and services more immense than the human mind can comprehend. No dictator, no bureaucracy, no supercomputer plans it in advance. Indeed, the more an economy is planned, the more it is plagued by shortages, dislocation, and failure.

It is commonplace to speak of seeing God's signature in the intricacy of a spider's web or the animation of a beehive. But they pale in comparison to the kaleidoscopic energy and productivity of the free market. If it is a blessing from Heaven when seeds are transformed into grain, how much more of a blessing is it when our private, voluntary exchanges are transformed — without our ever intending it — into prosperity, innovation, and growth?

The social order of freedom, like the wealth and the progress it makes possible, is an extraordinary gift from above. On this Thanksgiving Day and every day, may we be grateful.

The reality is that neither liberals nor conservatives believe in pure capitalism. A pure laissez-faire capitalist society does not exist today, has never existed, and probably never will.

It's impossible. Capitalism doesn't work in a vacuum, which is why such a thing isn't possible. An amoral system without controls would eat itself in no time, like pure Democracy.

That's just a lot of horse manure signifying nothing.

No, it's how life works, in the real world that is.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

A great little engine but you don't yet the engine steer the car.

You making your own decisions is no way to steer your car, government using force to make your decisions for you is. Keep posting, Junior, that's the only way to get through to people who don't get it what idiocy liberalism is.

No, what i said is exactly right. Capitalism is not just good, and it's not just bad either. Like any tool it's how you use it. You guys love all the goodies but you try to dismiss the sludge created. In the real world that's not how it works.

 

[Toro]

Thank you capitalism, for beating communism, the douchiest socioeconomic system ever.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Capitalism is not for the pitchfolks, which is why you fail to understand it.

Actually, capitalism is for everyone. It's the one system that abhors aristocracy and promises opportunity and the chance for great wealth and success for those willing to work, to risk, and to dream. It's clearly YOU who doesn't understand its nature.

I understand its nature perfectly, which is why I'm a capitalist and know it must be regulated, among other things.

It's the level of regulation you support that means you aren't one.

You are incorrect, as usual. Like any child, capitalism needs a parent.

He's absolutely correct, and capitalism is not a child. You certainly aren't qualified to be the parent. The problem with government regulation is that the cure is worse than the disease.

That is incorrect. Without good government and regulation, capitalism is not possible. You'd have to understand capitalism to know why, and you don't, very few do.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You are incorrect, as usual. Like any child, capitalism needs a parent.

That pretty much nails statists, forever wanting to submit to government as children. PaintTheCeiling.

Government is a tool, and in this case a compromise. Children, meaning you, don't know how to use tools or compromise. That's why you reject the obvious, obvious to adults that is...

You are the tool. I don't compromise principles. That you do shows you have none.

Really? Does your small government also include banning abortion and gay marriage? I bet that it does.

Politics is the art of compromise, and healthy capitalism both good government and good regulation. Learn it.

Liar, you don't advocate liberals "compromise," only Republicans. Your only question is how much will they give you by choice and how much do you take by force.

Nope my little man, all must compromise, for things to work that is. Not something your side is any good at anymore. That's because you call strength weakness. Like most things, you have life backwards.

 

[kaz]

A great little engine but you don't yet the engine steer the car.

You making your own decisions is no way to steer your car, government using force to make your decisions for you is. Keep posting, Junior, that's the only way to get through to people who don't get it what idiocy liberalism is.

What is the role of government, if not to make laws and enforce those laws?

Can you maybe bring your question down from 50K feet to where there's an actual point I can address?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

A great little engine but you don't yet the engine steer the car.

You making your own decisions is no way to steer your car, government using force to make your decisions for you is. Keep posting, Junior, that's the only way to get through to people who don't get it what idiocy liberalism is.

What is the role of government, if not to make laws and enforce those laws?

Can you maybe bring your question down from 50K feet to where there's an actual point I can address?

He could put it at the 5ft level, and you'd still be clueless.

 

[kaz]

No, what i said is exactly right. Capitalism is not just good, and it's not just bad either. Like any tool it's how you use it. You guys love all the goodies but you try to dismiss the sludge created. In the world that's not how it works.

That makes no sense. Capitalism is just economic freedom. It is where consumers, producers ,employers, employees all compete in an open marketplace. It is the absence of coercion, which can only be done by government because only government can use force. It's not a "tool," that doesn't make sense.

The question is, at what point can government make better choices for you than you can make for yourself? That answer to that is never. Well, maybe in your case they can, but for most of us it's never.

 

[kaz]

A great little engine but you don't yet the engine steer the car.

You making your own decisions is no way to steer your car, government using force to make your decisions for you is. Keep posting, Junior, that's the only way to get through to people who don't get it what idiocy liberalism is.

What is the role of government, if not to make laws and enforce those laws?

Can you maybe bring your question down from 50K feet to where there's an actual point I can address?

He could put it at the 5ft level, and you'd still be clueless.

Yes, I still am not clicking with that you two geniuses would make better choices over my life than I do. My bad. That government will solve our problems for us by removing choice is upon examination the idiocy that it appears to be at first blush.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

No, what i said is exactly right. Capitalism is not just good, and it's not just bad either. Like any tool it's how you use it. You guys love all the goodies but you try to dismiss the sludge created. In the world that's not how it works.

That makes no sense.

Of course it makes no sense to you because you have no idea what capitalism actually is, and your post clearly shows that. Learn it instead of repeating the propaganda you've swallowed.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

A great little engine but you don't yet the engine steer the car.

You making your own decisions is no way to steer your car, government using force to make your decisions for you is. Keep posting, Junior, that's the only way to get through to people who don't get it what idiocy liberalism is.

What is the role of government, if not to make laws and enforce those laws?

Can you maybe bring your question down from 50K feet to where there's an actual point I can address?

He could put it at the 5ft level, and you'd still be clueless.

Yes, I still am not clicking with that you two geniuses would make better choices over my life than I do. My bad. That government will solve our problems for us by removing choice is upon examination the idiocy that it appears to be at first blush.

The government limits your choices, even makes some for you, and after that it's up to you. What part of this don't you get, or are you just one of those Ayn Rand kids who wants to do whatever they want all the damn time, the kind who thinks society doesn't exist and being selfish is moral?

 

[kaz]

Actually, capitalism is for everyone. It's the one system that abhors aristocracy and promises opportunity and the chance for great wealth and success for those willing to work, to risk, and to dream. It's clearly YOU who doesn't understand its nature.

I understand its nature perfectly, which is why I'm a capitalist and know it must be regulated, among other things.

It's the level of regulation you support that means you aren't one.

You are incorrect, as usual. Like any child, capitalism needs a parent.

He's absolutely correct, and capitalism is not a child. You certainly aren't qualified to be the parent. The problem with government regulation is that the cure is worse than the disease.

That is incorrect. Without good government and regulation, capitalism is not possible. You'd have to understand capitalism to know why, and you don't, very few do.

You want roads, you get Marxism! You liberals set such a high bar for yourselves.

Yes, simpleton, we need civil and criminal courts to redress civil and criminal wrongs. That we need that means we need your socialist authoritarian leftist control of markets is preposterous. The former is government being a referee, the latter is government being a kindergarten teacher. I left kindergarten a long time ago. I'm not interested in having my mouth wiped after I eat my snack.

 

[kaz]

No, what i said is exactly right. Capitalism is not just good, and it's not just bad either. Like any tool it's how you use it. You guys love all the goodies but you try to dismiss the sludge created. In the world that's not how it works.

That makes no sense.

Of course it makes no sense to you because you have no idea what capitalism actually is, and your post clearly shows that. Learn it instead of repeating the propaganda you've swallowed.

You're an idiot, I'm not the one who doesn't know what I am talking about. You think capitalism operates best under socialism, for you to lecture anyone is classic.

 

[kaz]

That pretty much nails statists, forever wanting to submit to government as children. PaintTheCeiling.

Government is a tool, and in this case a compromise. Children, meaning you, don't know how to use tools or compromise. That's why you reject the obvious, obvious to adults that is...

You are the tool. I don't compromise principles. That you do shows you have none.

Really? Does your small government also include banning abortion and gay marriage? I bet that it does.

Politics is the art of compromise, and healthy capitalism both good government and good regulation. Learn it.

Liar, you don't advocate liberals "compromise," only Republicans. Your only question is how much will they give you by choice and how much do you take by force.

Nope my little man, all must compromise, for things to work that is. Not something your side is any good at anymore. That's because you call strength weakness. Like most things, you have life backwards.

So Junior, give me an example of what Democrat "compromise" is an example of what you want Republicans to do?

 

[kaz]

You making your own decisions is no way to steer your car, government using force to make your decisions for you is. Keep posting, Junior, that's the only way to get through to people who don't get it what idiocy liberalism is.

What is the role of government, if not to make laws and enforce those laws?

Can you maybe bring your question down from 50K feet to where there's an actual point I can address?

He could put it at the 5ft level, and you'd still be clueless.

Yes, I still am not clicking with that you two geniuses would make better choices over my life than I do. My bad. That government will solve our problems for us by removing choice is upon examination the idiocy that it appears to be at first blush.

The government limits your choices, even makes some for you, and after that it's up to you. What part of this don't you get, or are you just one of those Ayn Rand kids who wants to do whatever they want all the damn time, the kind who thinks society doesn't exist and being selfish is moral?

Yes, Junior, the my choices are anarchy or Marxism bit again. That never gets old. Damn you people are intelligent.

Tell me again how you're smarter than Republicans because you're not black and white like they are, lol.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

No, what i said is exactly right. Capitalism is not just good, and it's not just bad either. Like any tool it's how you use it. You guys love all the goodies but you try to dismiss the sludge created. In the world that's not how it works.

That makes no sense.

Of course it makes no sense to you because you have no idea what capitalism actually is, and your post clearly shows that. Learn it instead of repeating the propaganda you've swallowed.

You're an idiot, I'm not the one who doesn't know what I am talking about. You think capitalism operates best under socialism, for you to lecture anyone is classic.

Capitalism is possible only with good government and regulation. Neither has anything to do with Socialism. If you had even the most basic understanding of capitalism you'd know that.