Gitmo Justice.

[Navy1960]

I've had the opportunity to see some of the antics of the vile scum at Gitmo in the courtroom. It leads me to believe that given these antics these men who are showing such contempt for this process, why bend over backwards in an attempt not to deprive the defendants of any sense of due process. If the defendants are in such contempt of these proceeedings and are rigged as they claim and they wish to use it as a means to further their aims they started 10 years ago, then by all means give them their wish. If the proceedings are as wide open as they seem to be, then the judge should just lean over , ask the defendants one by one at which hour do they wish to meet their maker and make that wish come true in as fast a manner as possible!.

 

[Claudette]

My sentiments exactly.

I'm sure the officers sitting on the tribunal would agree.

I, for one, think they should just execute all of the dirtbags at Gitmo. Save some time, money and clear out Gitmo.

 

[Katzndogz]

The antics of the defendants have nothing on the antics of Cheryl Borman the defense attorney.

 

[jillian]

I've had the opportunity to see some of the antics of the vile scum at Gitmo in the courtroom. It leads me to believe that given these antics these men who are showing such contempt for this process, why bend over backwards in an attempt not to deprive the defendants of any sense of due process. If the defendants are in such contempt of these proceeedings and are rigged as they claim and they wish to use it as a means to further their aims they started 10 years ago, then by all means give them their wish. If the proceedings are as wide open as they seem to be, then the judge should just lean over , ask the defendants one by one at which hour do they wish to meet their maker and make that wish come true in as fast a manner as possible!.

Well, we don't protect their rights for them... we do it for us because that's who we're supposed to be.

That said, even in a civilian criminal trial, there comes a point where the court can exclude a defendant for acting out and obstructing the judicial process.

I wouldn't give them the death penalty, though. life at gitmo is worse because they're desperate to be martyrs.

 

[Navy1960]

I've had the opportunity to see some of the antics of the vile scum at Gitmo in the courtroom. It leads me to believe that given these antics these men who are showing such contempt for this process, why bend over backwards in an attempt not to deprive the defendants of any sense of due process. If the defendants are in such contempt of these proceeedings and are rigged as they claim and they wish to use it as a means to further their aims they started 10 years ago, then by all means give them their wish. If the proceedings are as wide open as they seem to be, then the judge should just lean over , ask the defendants one by one at which hour do they wish to meet their maker and make that wish come true in as fast a manner as possible!.

Well, we don't protect their rights for them... we do it for us because that's who we're supposed to be.

That said, even in a civilian criminal trial, there comes a point where the court can exclude a defendant for acting out and obstructing the judicial process.

I wouldn't give them the death penalty, though. life at gitmo is worse because they're desperate to be martyrs.

In some way's your right when it comes to life.

Again this is my humble opinion here, these defendants and their attorney's are doing this as a manner of protest. I would love to see a Court Martial where Defense counsel is allow to Voir Dire the Judge as they are here and see how fast a charge of contempt gets handed down. As I mentioned before if the goal is to make a statement then allow them to make that statement on the way to the punishment they deserve. I saw none of this compassion on their behalf for the rights of those they had no compuntion from planning to fly a several thousand pound aircraft into the side of a building or using C-4 on innocents, then simply show them the same compassion they showed others.

 

[California Girl]

I've had the opportunity to see some of the antics of the vile scum at Gitmo in the courtroom. It leads me to believe that given these antics these men who are showing such contempt for this process, why bend over backwards in an attempt not to deprive the defendants of any sense of due process. If the defendants are in such contempt of these proceeedings and are rigged as they claim and they wish to use it as a means to further their aims they started 10 years ago, then by all means give them their wish. If the proceedings are as wide open as they seem to be, then the judge should just lean over , ask the defendants one by one at which hour do they wish to meet their maker and make that wish come true in as fast a manner as possible!.

Well, we don't protect their rights for them... we do it for us because that's who we're supposed to be.

That said, even in a civilian criminal trial, there comes a point where the court can exclude a defendant for acting out and obstructing the judicial process.

I wouldn't give them the death penalty, though. life at gitmo is worse because they're desperate to be martyrs.

In some way's your right when it comes to life.

Again this is my humble opinion here, these defendants and their attorney's are doing this as a manner of protest. I would love to see a Court Martial where Defense counsel is allow to Voir Dire the Judge as they are here and see how fast a charge of contempt gets handed down. As I mentioned before if the goal is to make a statement then allow them to make that statement on the way to the punishment they deserve. I saw none of this compassion on their behalf for the rights of those they had no compuntion from planning to fly a several thousand pound aircraft into the side of a building or using C-4 on innocents, then simply show them the same compassion they showed others.

I would personally prefer to see them handed life sentences than the DP. They want to die - they do not value life as we do. So we should give them a punishment that takes their values away from them... life shut away, with no access to their damned 'religion', and forgotten about by the world.

 

[jillian]

I've had the opportunity to see some of the antics of the vile scum at Gitmo in the courtroom. It leads me to believe that given these antics these men who are showing such contempt for this process, why bend over backwards in an attempt not to deprive the defendants of any sense of due process. If the defendants are in such contempt of these proceeedings and are rigged as they claim and they wish to use it as a means to further their aims they started 10 years ago, then by all means give them their wish. If the proceedings are as wide open as they seem to be, then the judge should just lean over , ask the defendants one by one at which hour do they wish to meet their maker and make that wish come true in as fast a manner as possible!.

Well, we don't protect their rights for them... we do it for us because that's who we're supposed to be.

That said, even in a civilian criminal trial, there comes a point where the court can exclude a defendant for acting out and obstructing the judicial process.

I wouldn't give them the death penalty, though. life at gitmo is worse because they're desperate to be martyrs.

In some way's your right when it comes to life.

Again this is my humble opinion here, these defendants and their attorney's are doing this as a manner of protest. I would love to see a Court Martial where Defense counsel is allow to Voir Dire the Judge as they are here and see how fast a charge of contempt gets handed down. As I mentioned before if the goal is to make a statement then allow them to make that statement on the way to the punishment they deserve. I saw none of this compassion on their behalf for the rights of those they had no compuntion from planning to fly a several thousand pound aircraft into the side of a building or using C-4 on innocents, then simply show them the same compassion they showed others.

the attorney said they were doing it as "peaceful protest", so that's correct. and if they persist, the judge will have to find the cojones to impose some type of sanction, i'd think. and while on an emotional level, i certainly see your point. our defense of people's rights has nothing to do with what they did or what we feel about it.

 

[High_Gravity]

I've had the opportunity to see some of the antics of the vile scum at Gitmo in the courtroom. It leads me to believe that given these antics these men who are showing such contempt for this process, why bend over backwards in an attempt not to deprive the defendants of any sense of due process. If the defendants are in such contempt of these proceeedings and are rigged as they claim and they wish to use it as a means to further their aims they started 10 years ago, then by all means give them their wish. If the proceedings are as wide open as they seem to be, then the judge should just lean over , ask the defendants one by one at which hour do they wish to meet their maker and make that wish come true in as fast a manner as possible!.

These scumbags are showing their ass in the court room, they really don't deserve this kind of fairness. If they were locked up in a Russian prison I guarantee they wouldn't acting the fool this way.

 

[Navy1960]

Well, we don't protect their rights for them... we do it for us because that's who we're supposed to be.

That said, even in a civilian criminal trial, there comes a point where the court can exclude a defendant for acting out and obstructing the judicial process.

I wouldn't give them the death penalty, though. life at gitmo is worse because they're desperate to be martyrs.

In some way's your right when it comes to life.

Again this is my humble opinion here, these defendants and their attorney's are doing this as a manner of protest. I would love to see a Court Martial where Defense counsel is allow to Voir Dire the Judge as they are here and see how fast a charge of contempt gets handed down. As I mentioned before if the goal is to make a statement then allow them to make that statement on the way to the punishment they deserve. I saw none of this compassion on their behalf for the rights of those they had no compuntion from planning to fly a several thousand pound aircraft into the side of a building or using C-4 on innocents, then simply show them the same compassion they showed others.

I would personally prefer to see them handed life sentences than the DP. They want to die - they do not value life as we do. So we should give them a punishment that takes their values away from them... life shut away, with no access to their damned 'religion', and forgotten about by the world.

Theres a lot to be said about that too CG, and in some ways when one thinks of the people responsible for the first WTC who are now locked away someplace, it does seem to hold more weight. It does make you wonder if the Judge just said okay, welcome to Gitmo for life and see if the antics cease. In general if they hold no compassion or respect and as such they are not in the Criminal justice system then accord them the same compassion. Further, use the UCMJ as I frankly have understood little of a debate that has to do with a person you capture on a battlefield overseas. I don't seem to recall very many VC brought here to the US and accorded rights under the US Constitution or civilian defense lawyers for their actions against American forces in Vietnam. I might be wrong however on that score, but seem to recall an awful lot of them ended up at An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island after being turned over to the ARVN and generally kept there till the end of the war.

 

[syrenn]

I've had the opportunity to see some of the antics of the vile scum at Gitmo in the courtroom. It leads me to believe that given these antics these men who are showing such contempt for this process, why bend over backwards in an attempt not to deprive the defendants of any sense of due process. If the defendants are in such contempt of these proceeedings and are rigged as they claim and they wish to use it as a means to further their aims they started 10 years ago, then by all means give them their wish. If the proceedings are as wide open as they seem to be, then the judge should just lean over , ask the defendants one by one at which hour do they wish to meet their maker and make that wish come true in as fast a manner as possible!.

Well, we don't protect their rights for them... we do it for us because that's who we're supposed to be.

That said, even in a civilian criminal trial, there comes a point where the court can exclude a defendant for acting out and obstructing the judicial process.

I wouldn't give them the death penalty, though. life at gitmo is worse because they're desperate to be martyrs.

I agree, they want death... and their beloved martyrdom.

Fuck um. Let them die of old age in prison.

 

[Vidi]

Well, we don't protect their rights for them... we do it for us because that's who we're supposed to be.

That said, even in a civilian criminal trial, there comes a point where the court can exclude a defendant for acting out and obstructing the judicial process.

I wouldn't give them the death penalty, though. life at gitmo is worse because they're desperate to be martyrs.

In some way's your right when it comes to life.

Again this is my humble opinion here, these defendants and their attorney's are doing this as a manner of protest. I would love to see a Court Martial where Defense counsel is allow to Voir Dire the Judge as they are here and see how fast a charge of contempt gets handed down. As I mentioned before if the goal is to make a statement then allow them to make that statement on the way to the punishment they deserve. I saw none of this compassion on their behalf for the rights of those they had no compuntion from planning to fly a several thousand pound aircraft into the side of a building or using C-4 on innocents, then simply show them the same compassion they showed others.

I would personally prefer to see them handed life sentences than the DP. They want to die - they do not value life as we do. So we should give them a punishment that takes their values away from them... life shut away, with no access to their damned 'religion', and forgotten about by the world.

Amazing generalization. Can you even name three of the defendants without google? What are the specific charges against them? For what events specifically? What's the actual evidence?

You're ready to lock them up and throw away the key and you know nothing about any of that do you? Who's next on your hate parade?

We are supposed to be a country ruled by law, not fear and bigotry.

 

[Navy1960]

Well, we don't protect their rights for them... we do it for us because that's who we're supposed to be.

That said, even in a civilian criminal trial, there comes a point where the court can exclude a defendant for acting out and obstructing the judicial process.

I wouldn't give them the death penalty, though. life at gitmo is worse because they're desperate to be martyrs.

In some way's your right when it comes to life.

Again this is my humble opinion here, these defendants and their attorney's are doing this as a manner of protest. I would love to see a Court Martial where Defense counsel is allow to Voir Dire the Judge as they are here and see how fast a charge of contempt gets handed down. As I mentioned before if the goal is to make a statement then allow them to make that statement on the way to the punishment they deserve. I saw none of this compassion on their behalf for the rights of those they had no compuntion from planning to fly a several thousand pound aircraft into the side of a building or using C-4 on innocents, then simply show them the same compassion they showed others.

the attorney said they were doing it as "peaceful protest", so that's correct. and if they persist, the judge will have to find the cojones to impose some type of sanction, i'd think. and while on an emotional level, i certainly see your point. our defense of people's rights has nothing to do with what they did or what we feel about it.

Ahh but there is the thing jillian while I agree that a defendant should be accorded rights, here is my feeling on the subject. If it happens to be under the UCMJ or are limited based on the fact these individuals we captured on the battlefield and as such are not entitled to rights as say a Criminal defendant would be in a courtroom in the United States then I agree. You are correct I highly doubt one party or the other invloved here cares much about our feelings on the matter, and but it is helpful for Americans to voice them none the less. I would like to hear your opinions on the ability of Defense Counsel to Voir Dire the Judge. One would think that a Judge would be very strict with any defendant and their counsel having to suffer through that.

 

[GoneBezerk]

They should've been tortured to death years ago once their intel relevance was over.

No military trial, they are not legal combatants or even common criminals.

 

[California Girl]

In some way's your right when it comes to life.

Again this is my humble opinion here, these defendants and their attorney's are doing this as a manner of protest. I would love to see a Court Martial where Defense counsel is allow to Voir Dire the Judge as they are here and see how fast a charge of contempt gets handed down. As I mentioned before if the goal is to make a statement then allow them to make that statement on the way to the punishment they deserve. I saw none of this compassion on their behalf for the rights of those they had no compuntion from planning to fly a several thousand pound aircraft into the side of a building or using C-4 on innocents, then simply show them the same compassion they showed others.

I would personally prefer to see them handed life sentences than the DP. They want to die - they do not value life as we do. So we should give them a punishment that takes their values away from them... life shut away, with no access to their damned 'religion', and forgotten about by the world.

Theres a lot to be said about that too CG, and in some ways when one thinks of the people responsible for the first WTC who are now locked away someplace, it does seem to hold more weight. It does make you wonder if the Judge just said okay, welcome to Gitmo for life and see if the antics cease. In general if they hold no compassion or respect and as such they are not in the Criminal justice system then accord them the same compassion. Further, use the UCMJ as I frankly have understood little of a debate that has to do with a person you capture on a battlefield overseas. I don't seem to recall very many VC brought here to the US and accorded rights under the US Constitution or civilian defense lawyers for their actions against American forces in Vietnam. I might be wrong however on that score, but seem to recall an awful lot of them ended up at An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island after being turned over to the ARVN and generally kept there till the end of the war.

Yep, can't fault your reasoning on that either. These are not ordinary circumstances - I fail to see why we think the US Constitution applies.... that is American arrogance, to me. Frankly, I don't really care whether we try them or not... in fact, there's a lot to be said for not trying them at all.... just 'disappear' their asses. Lock them away and tell the rest of the world to mind their own fucking business.

We cannot afford for our enemies to see us as a weak country that will not defend ourselves and one that will play by the rules. We are America. We make our own fucking rules.

 

[bitterlyclingin]

William F Halsey, speaking in San Francisco in 1944 on what constitutes a "Good Japanese" "One that has been dead for six months!"
America is afflicted with "Victory Disease", more severely than any enemy it has ever faced in the past. We have to cure ourselves lest we become its next victim.
Just for example, San Francisco, which warmly greeted Mr Halsey and his victorious fleet on his return from WWII recently expelled the USS Iowa, sister ship to the one that the Articles of Surrender ending that war were signed on, from its harbor saying "We don't want your kind around here!"

 

[California Girl]

They should've been tortured to death years ago once their intel relevance was over.

No military trial, they are not legal combatants or even common criminals.

Idiot.

 

[Big Black Dog]

My thoughts...

1. Give them a fair trial.
2. Give them a fair hanging.

Do it all within 90 days.

 

[High_Gravity]

I would personally prefer to see them handed life sentences than the DP. They want to die - they do not value life as we do. So we should give them a punishment that takes their values away from them... life shut away, with no access to their damned 'religion', and forgotten about by the world.

Theres a lot to be said about that too CG, and in some ways when one thinks of the people responsible for the first WTC who are now locked away someplace, it does seem to hold more weight. It does make you wonder if the Judge just said okay, welcome to Gitmo for life and see if the antics cease. In general if they hold no compassion or respect and as such they are not in the Criminal justice system then accord them the same compassion. Further, use the UCMJ as I frankly have understood little of a debate that has to do with a person you capture on a battlefield overseas. I don't seem to recall very many VC brought here to the US and accorded rights under the US Constitution or civilian defense lawyers for their actions against American forces in Vietnam. I might be wrong however on that score, but seem to recall an awful lot of them ended up at An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island after being turned over to the ARVN and generally kept there till the end of the war.

Yep, can't fault your reasoning on that either. These are not ordinary circumstances - I fail to see why we think the US Constitution applies.... that is American arrogance, to me. Frankly, I don't really care whether we try them or not... in fact, there's a lot to be said for not trying them at all.... just 'disappear' their asses. Lock them away and tell the rest of the world to mind their own fucking business.

We cannot afford for our enemies to see us as a weak country that will not defend ourselves and one that will play by the rules. We are America. We make our own fucking rules.

We really need to stop letting them show their ass in the court room though, everytime we stop the proceedings to let them pray and let them sit there, laugh and ignore questions, this is a victory for those guys. If I was on trial in an Islamic country and asked for a break to pray they would hit me in the face with a baton.

 

[jillian]

They should've been tortured to death years ago once their intel relevance was over.

No military trial, they are not legal combatants or even common criminals.

Idiot.

yes, yes he is.

 

[jillian]

In some way's your right when it comes to life.

Again this is my humble opinion here, these defendants and their attorney's are doing this as a manner of protest. I would love to see a Court Martial where Defense counsel is allow to Voir Dire the Judge as they are here and see how fast a charge of contempt gets handed down. As I mentioned before if the goal is to make a statement then allow them to make that statement on the way to the punishment they deserve. I saw none of this compassion on their behalf for the rights of those they had no compuntion from planning to fly a several thousand pound aircraft into the side of a building or using C-4 on innocents, then simply show them the same compassion they showed others.

the attorney said they were doing it as "peaceful protest", so that's correct. and if they persist, the judge will have to find the cojones to impose some type of sanction, i'd think. and while on an emotional level, i certainly see your point. our defense of people's rights has nothing to do with what they did or what we feel about it.

Ahh but there is the thing jillian while I agree that a defendant should be accorded rights, here is my feeling on the subject. If it happens to be under the UCMJ or are limited based on the fact these individuals we captured on the battlefield and as such are not entitled to rights as say a Criminal defendant would be in a courtroom in the United States then I agree. You are correct I highly doubt one party or the other invloved here cares much about our feelings on the matter, and but it is helpful for Americans to voice them none the less. I would like to hear your opinions on the ability of Defense Counsel to Voir Dire the Judge. One would think that a Judge would be very strict with any defendant and their counsel having to suffer through that.

I agree with you that rights are limited under the UCMJ, but I suspect the Judge is concerned with maintaining the legitimacy of his courtroom. He seems to be allowing them enough rope to hang themselves. And he's not allowing them to make a record alleging he has denied them any due process rights they may have.

I've never heard of a defense attorney being allowed to Voir Dire a Judge. I didn't know that had happend. I haven't read the exchange so I can't offer any observations about that.