From The Horse's Mouth...

[flacaltenn]

We're sitting here arguing about "leakers" in Israeli Intelligence and WE as a nation are allowing powerful Intel Agencies like the NSA and CIA to be turned on our country and calling Snowden a traitor. Good for these folks. DOMESTIC intelligence of ANY type ought to have a conscience.

Was time not so long ago that our major spy outfits were ABSOLUTELY prohibited from domestic spying. NOW they have built their own domestic cell network for snooping. Hope Israel does a better job of protecting civil liberties than we do..

This is what I was trying to say earlier, its not about civil liberties or moral/humane aspects, its only about politics, and personal gain, which is why we see it as a crime.

Anat Kamm Uri Blau affair - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

That's true.. You would have to be closer to the story to know the MOTIVES of the leakers. Good catch..

Agreed. However in this instance no sensitive documents were leaked, there is no credible threat to the security of the Zionist state from this letter. I'm genuinly impressed at the courage it must have taken for these 43 individuals to destroy their careers and risk imprisonment and/or death to protest at the activities they were required to undertake for their political and military masters. I don't see what personal gain is likely to come their way, nor what political advantage will result.

Oh.. You mean like the "unknowable personal political advantage" that YOU GOT by choosing to toss this into discussion?

Of course you wouldn't see it.. That's why you just assume they did for purely humanitarian reasons. OUR political factions would NEVER punk each other for political gain and than PRETEND that they did it "for the children" or "the good of the nation".. Would they?

Stop being such an OBVIOUS tool.. You can be a tool if you really want to -- but you need to be a less transparent tool..

 

[Daniyel]

Every small detail exposed can be critical once you analyze and collect other information to a big puzzle, they did leak information, and they are not even allowed to state a political opinion on behalf of the IDF, as a private personal they can and encouraged to do so, but claiming they are speaking on a point of 8200 intelligence unit - or any other unit btw - is a crime.
They also probably disobeyed direct orders, security measures are extremely strict within intelligence and classified units.

 

[fanger]

Israeli spies rebel over mass-snooping on innocent Palestinians
Israeli spies rebel over mass-snooping on innocent Palestinians The Register

there are some good Israelis

 

[Daniyel]

Israeli spies rebel over mass-snooping on innocent Palestinians
Israeli spies rebel over mass-snooping on innocent Palestinians The Register

there are some good Israelis

Oh please, melodramatic title for everyday news.. cheap don't you think? Wait why do YOU @fanger care about it anyways?

 

[Challenger]

We're sitting here arguing about "leakers" in Israeli Intelligence and WE as a nation are allowing powerful Intel Agencies like the NSA and CIA to be turned on our country and calling Snowden a traitor. Good for these folks. DOMESTIC intelligence of ANY type ought to have a conscience.

Was time not so long ago that our major spy outfits were ABSOLUTELY prohibited from domestic spying. NOW they have built their own domestic cell network for snooping. Hope Israel does a better job of protecting civil liberties than we do..

This is what I was trying to say earlier, its not about civil liberties or moral/humane aspects, its only about politics, and personal gain, which is why we see it as a crime.

Anat Kamm Uri Blau affair - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

That's true.. You would have to be closer to the story to know the MOTIVES of the leakers. Good catch..

Agreed. However in this instance no sensitive documents were leaked, there is no credible threat to the security of the Zionist state from this letter. I'm genuinly impressed at the courage it must have taken for these 43 individuals to destroy their careers and risk imprisonment and/or death to protest at the activities they were required to undertake for their political and military masters. I don't see what personal gain is likely to come their way, nor what political advantage will result.

Oh.. You mean like the "unknowable personal political advantage" that YOU GOT by choosing to toss this into discussion?

Of course you wouldn't see it.. That's why you just assume they did for purely humanitarian reasons. OUR political factions would NEVER punk each other for political gain and than PRETEND that they did it "for the children" or "the good of the nation".. Would they?

Stop being such an OBVIOUS tool.. You can be a tool if you really want to -- but you need to be a less transparent tool..

What a bizarre response.

What evidence is there that these 43 people had political motives or all belonged to a "political faction"? You seem to make an assumption that because people object to the activities of a clandestine organisation like Unit 8200, they MUST, by default be politically motivated or expect to make millions from book deals; your embittered cynicism is showing.

 

[flacaltenn]

Oh.. You mean like the "unknowable personal political advantage" that YOU GOT by choosing to toss this into discussion?

Of course you wouldn't see it.. That's why you just assume they did for purely humanitarian reasons. OUR political factions would NEVER punk each other for political gain and than PRETEND that they did it "for the children" or "the good of the nation".. Would they?

Stop being such an OBVIOUS tool.. You can be a tool if you really want to -- but you need to be a less transparent tool..

What a bizarre response.

What evidence is there that these 43 people had political motives or all belonged to a "political faction"? You seem to make an assumption that because people object to the activities of a clandestine organisation like Unit 8200, they MUST, by default be politically motivated or expect to make millions from book deals; your embittered cynicism is showing.

Just pointing out to you what Danyiel pointed out to me. That while you're heaping UNLIMITED praise on these folks -- NONE of us know their motives. And the fact that this stuff is done all the time for the whimpiest excuses of being "for the children" or "for the good of the nation" should temper your praise..

 

[Challenger]

Oh.. You mean like the "unknowable personal political advantage" that YOU GOT by choosing to toss this into discussion?

Of course you wouldn't see it.. That's why you just assume they did for purely humanitarian reasons. OUR political factions would NEVER punk each other for political gain and than PRETEND that they did it "for the children" or "the good of the nation".. Would they?

Stop being such an OBVIOUS tool.. You can be a tool if you really want to -- but you need to be a less transparent tool..

What a bizarre response.

What evidence is there that these 43 people had political motives or all belonged to a "political faction"? You seem to make an assumption that because people object to the activities of a clandestine organisation like Unit 8200, they MUST, by default be politically motivated or expect to make millions from book deals; your embittered cynicism is showing.

Just pointing out to you what Danyiel pointed out to me. That while you're heaping UNLIMITED praise on these folks -- NONE of us know their motives. And the fact that this stuff is done all the time for the whimpiest excuses of being "for the children" or "for the good of the nation" should temper your praise..

Fair point, but why should we automatically negatively question their declared motives? If evidence comes to light of ulterior motives, fine, I'll temper my admiration, until then I'll keep on admiring their courage.

However all this just detracts from their accusations which so far the IDF has done nothing to disprove other than issuing a counter-letter stating all is sweetness and light. I also note that Mr Snowden has published information that the NSA provided confidential data and private correspondence from innocent Palestinian- American citizens to Unit 8200. The implication being that Unit 8200 would use this to aid in blackmailing or coercing Palestinians in Occupied Palestine to spy and inform for them, that just adds to the scandal.

 

[RoccoR]

Challenger, et al,

Your cited implication is not necessarily the same inference that someone else may draw.

Oh.. You mean like the "unknowable personal political advantage" that YOU GOT by choosing to toss this into discussion?

Of course you wouldn't see it.. That's why you just assume they did for purely humanitarian reasons. OUR political factions would NEVER punk each other for political gain and than PRETEND that they did it "for the children" or "the good of the nation".. Would they?

Stop being such an OBVIOUS tool.. You can be a tool if you really want to -- but you need to be a less transparent tool..

What a bizarre response.

What evidence is there that these 43 people had political motives or all belonged to a "political faction"? You seem to make an assumption that because people object to the activities of a clandestine organisation like Unit 8200, they MUST, by default be politically motivated or expect to make millions from book deals; your embittered cynicism is showing.

Just pointing out to you what Danyiel pointed out to me. That while you're heaping UNLIMITED praise on these folks -- NONE of us know their motives. And the fact that this stuff is done all the time for the whimpiest excuses of being "for the children" or "for the good of the nation" should temper your praise..

Fair point, but why should we automatically negatively question their declared motives? If evidence comes to light of ulterior motives, fine, I'll temper my admiration, until then I'll keep on admiring their courage.

However all this just detracts from their accusations which so far the IDF has done nothing to disprove other than issuing a counter-letter stating all is sweetness and light. I also note that Mr Snowden has published information that the NSA provided confidential data and private correspondence from innocent Palestinian- American citizens to Unit 8200. The implication being that Unit 8200 would use this to aid in blackmailing or coercing Palestinians in Occupied Palestine to spy and inform for them, that just adds to the scandal.

(COMMENT)

The fact that NSA (a SIGINT activity) --- may have - or - may not have --- provided information is one question. But, for the moment, let's assume NSA did provide such information, what does that "suggest(?)" Well one thing is --- it might suggest that NSA made a direct link between a Palestinian and a known connection to a known Hostile Palestinian through network contact analysis (who talks to whom).

Sometimes, the investigation of contacts and connections of a known Hostile can lead to the discover of other hostiles.

I don't see how you draw a direct connection between what a SIGINT activities knows and the suggestion that it implies "blackmailing or coercing;" since SIGINT activities don't run operatives in the same sense that you are implying here. In fact, from a SIGINT standpoint, the direct contact by a HUMINT activity might tend to compromise and dry-up the useful SIGINT source of information.

While your little implication here makes for good fictional reading, it bares little resemblance to how actually things work. As I pointed out in Post #2 of Israeli Intelligence Veterans' Letter To Netanyahu And Military Chiefs, what you think you see, is not always what it appears to be.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[flacaltenn]

Challenger, et al,

Your cited implication is not necessarily the same inference that someone else may draw.


The fact that NSA (a SIGINT activity) --- may have - or - may not have --- provided information is one question. But, for the moment, let's assume NSA did provide such information, what does that "suggest(?)" Well one thing is --- it might suggest that NSA made a direct link between a Palestinian and a known connection to a known Hostile Palestinian through network contact analysis (who talks to whom).

Sometimes, the investigation of contacts and connections of a known Hostile can lead to the discover of other hostiles.

I don't see how you draw a direct connection between what a SIGINT activities knows and the suggestion that it implies "blackmailing or coercing;" since SIGINT activities don't run operatives in the same sense that you are implying here. In fact, from a SIGINT standpoint, the direct contact by a HUMINT activity might tend to compromise and dry-up the useful SIGINT source of information.

While your little implication here makes for good fictional reading, it bares little resemblance to how actually things work. As I pointed out in Post #2 of Israeli Intelligence Veterans' Letter To Netanyahu And Military Chiefs, what you think you see, is not always what it appears to be.

Most Respectfully,
R

Uh maybe Rocco.. I've got some insight into this from the era when NSA only employed their sigint magic on foreigners. And in those days, it reguarly required some footwork and field work.. But you're probably right in that this is all done in a small space and you can capture all the signals intelligence you want without going out of the office.

Blackmail in this case --- probably means questioning a Palestinian as to how his phone logged a call to Hamas in Qatar.. You DON'T have freedom to associate with recognized terrorist groups. Not in Israel, Not even in the good USA..

 

[Penelope]

Yes I have been following this. I think its obvious the Pals are under military rule and suppression and have been for years. Interview with a few. Of course we also have conscientious objectors who refuse military, and the more I think about it, I do wonder about 1/2 of those who sign up for active duty in the US do want to fight, and the others just want a job. I just see this all as men and countries who want control, same as the old empires, always want to control other people. Its really a sad world.

Israel’s Unit 8200 refuseniks: ‘you can’t run from responsibility’
Transcript of interview with three members of Unit 8200 in which they explain why they refuse to work in Palestinian territories
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/12/israel-unit-8200-refuseniks-transcript-interview
Unit 8200 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[docmauser1]

What evidence is there that these 43 people had political motives or all belonged to a "political faction"? You seem to make an assumption that because people object to the activities of a clandestine organisation like Unit 8200, they MUST, by default be politically motivated or expect to make millions from book deals; your embittered cynicism is showing.

Drivel.