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"Occupied palistan" drivel.Every country has is share of conscientious objectors, that's nothing new. What's different here is that for Intelligence work the individuals would(should) have been carefully vetted and be considered politically reliable. For a one "spook" to go off the reservation is remarkable, for 43 members of what is considered an elite intelligence gathering unit to do so, regardless of their status, demonstrates a serious underlying problem with either the IDF or the Zionist regime. Given also that these people know exactly what goes on, it's a damning endictment of Zionist policies in Occupied Palestine.
Camel-witted guardian drivel.The Guardian has some follow up information here
Israel s Unit 8200 refuseniks you can t run from responsibility World news The Guardian
Originally posted by Challenger
There is a view that service in IDF intelligence is devoid of moral dilemmas and contributes only to preventing violence and injury to the innocent.
Well, there is another view, which I happen to share, that the mere fact of being a citizen of Israel, of living in the state of Israel is full of moral dilemmas.
6, 8 years ago I read about an Israeli citizen, a beautiful jewish woman, with long, dark hair, who gave up her citizenship and immigrated to Australia on purely moral grounds. She said she couldn't stand being a citizen and paying taxes that one way or the other would end up financing the repression of the palestinian people.
And I don't think she's the only one.
If I were an Israeli citizen serving the Army would be totally out of question. And I suspect I would end up joining her in exile...
I'd probably go to the US, Australia or New Zealand where my tax money would get a less depraved destination, where Indians, Aborigines and Maoris are at least being currently compensated for their losses at the hands of the white supremacist states instead of being locked in reservations... getting casinos, financial subsidies, etc... instead of walls, electrified fences, minefields and machine gun nests.
http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=20079
By the way only 10 of them are actually intelligence, the rest are more like office workers with classification, but who cares what the IOF says, don't you think @Challenger ?
1. This is exactly what I said, no spin except yours taking selectively the words of ("unreliable") IOF (like team pally use to call them)http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=20079
By the way only 10 of them are actually intelligence, the rest are more like office workers with classification, but who cares what the IOF says, don't you think @Challenger ?
Nice attempt at spin there but the article says "10 of the 43 signatories take part in active intelligence gathering." Anyone who has any experience of an Intelligence service will tell you, for every person engaged in "active intelligence gathering" there are 10 people who collate, compile, sift, analyse, cross-reference the data gathered to create a cohesive "picture"; all of them know what goes on ans all of them know the unit ethos under which they work; calling them "office workers" just adds insult to the injury already done to Unit 8200.
It's amusing to watch the Zionist Hasbarists scuttle around in panic trying to close the stable door after the horse has long gone, "Oh no, honestly, we are very moral really; it's all a pack of lies; they're just a bunch of "lefties", disgrace to their unit, yadda, yadda, yadda....
Also noticed your slip of the forked tongue, calling the IDF the IOF.
1. This is exactly what I said, no spin except yours taking selectively the words of ("unreliable") IOF (like team pally use to call them)http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=20079
By the way only 10 of them are actually intelligence, the rest are more like office workers with classification, but who cares what the IOF says, don't you think @Challenger ?
Nice attempt at spin there but the article says "10 of the 43 signatories take part in active intelligence gathering." Anyone who has any experience of an Intelligence service will tell you, for every person engaged in "active intelligence gathering" there are 10 people who collate, compile, sift, analyse, cross-reference the data gathered to create a cohesive "picture"; all of them know what goes on ans all of them know the unit ethos under which they work; calling them "office workers" just adds insult to the injury already done to Unit 8200.
It's amusing to watch the Zionist Hasbarists scuttle around in panic trying to close the stable door after the horse has long gone, "Oh no, honestly, we are very moral really; it's all a pack of lies; they're just a bunch of "lefties", disgrace to their unit, yadda, yadda, yadda....
Also noticed your slip of the forked tongue, calling the IDF the IOF.
2. 10 out of 43 - office workers with classification - against the entire unit and IDF as well.
3. Its not about moral its about political view and this case they've abused their position for it, will probably sit in prison in some cases.
4. Stop watching too much movies I got a friend in this unit.
When is the last time anyone saw an arab-based self-analysis committee, reviewing their war crimes and tactics like suicide bombings, beheadings, rocket fire from civilian neighborhoods and into them? How about a committee that reviews the lack of women's rights, civil rights, gay rights, and lack of freedoms such as press, assembly and free speech in places like gaza? Oh that's right, in 70 years there never has been any...
So you wont be bringing South Africa into any arguments ever again will you ?
When is the last time anyone saw an arab-based self-analysis committee, reviewing their war crimes and tactics like suicide bombings, beheadings, rocket fire from civilian neighborhoods and into them? How about a committee that reviews the lack of women's rights, civil rights, gay rights, and lack of freedoms such as press, assembly and free speech in places like gaza? Oh that's right, in 70 years there never has been any...
So you wont be bringing South Africa into any arguments ever again will you ?
You two off your meds again?
There are 8 levels of classification in the IDF, anyway except the whole post that you simply state 'NO' there is nothing to go on with the debate, point is this is all political, not "moral" as you trying to force so hard, and yes I served in a classified unit, and I do have a friend in 8200 so cut your second-hand controversial-press trash, and get rid of your so old 'Hasbara!!" whining, you are in the dark decisively choose black or white in a 80+ years old conflict with your lame 'based on' assumptions..1. This is exactly what I said, no spin except yours taking selectively the words of ("unreliable") IOF (like team pally use to call them)http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=20079
By the way only 10 of them are actually intelligence, the rest are more like office workers with classification, but who cares what the IOF says, don't you think @Challenger ?
Nice attempt at spin there but the article says "10 of the 43 signatories take part in active intelligence gathering." Anyone who has any experience of an Intelligence service will tell you, for every person engaged in "active intelligence gathering" there are 10 people who collate, compile, sift, analyse, cross-reference the data gathered to create a cohesive "picture"; all of them know what goes on ans all of them know the unit ethos under which they work; calling them "office workers" just adds insult to the injury already done to Unit 8200.
It's amusing to watch the Zionist Hasbarists scuttle around in panic trying to close the stable door after the horse has long gone, "Oh no, honestly, we are very moral really; it's all a pack of lies; they're just a bunch of "lefties", disgrace to their unit, yadda, yadda, yadda....
Also noticed your slip of the forked tongue, calling the IDF the IOF.
2. 10 out of 43 - office workers with classification - against the entire unit and IDF as well.
3. Its not about moral its about political view and this case they've abused their position for it, will probably sit in prison in some cases.
4. Stop watching too much movies I got a friend in this unit.
Me spinning? The Hasbara playbook calls for discrediting anyone who criticises the Zionist regime, so I'd expect something like a "counter-letter" as a crude attempt to do so; I've not been disappointed. A crude damage-limitation exercise by top brass and a bunch of IDF officers fearing for their careers and even ( as you mention) their freedom would probably sign anything put in front of them regardless of whether they believed it or not. Me I'm sitting back watching the show and giggling at the ineptitude of the IDF on display for all to see. Oh, BTW, I have a friend in Military Intelligence and he tells me absolutely nothing about what he or his department does, because it's SECRET.
This is what I was trying to say earlier, its not about civil liberties or moral/humane aspects, its only about politics, and personal gain, which is why we see it as a crime.We're sitting here arguing about "leakers" in Israeli Intelligence and WE as a nation are allowing powerful Intel Agencies like the NSA and CIA to be turned on our country and calling Snowden a traitor. Good for these folks. DOMESTIC intelligence of ANY type ought to have a conscience.
Was time not so long ago that our major spy outfits were ABSOLUTELY prohibited from domestic spying. NOW they have built their own domestic cell network for snooping. Hope Israel does a better job of protecting civil liberties than we do..
This is what I was trying to say earlier, its not about civil liberties or moral/humane aspects, its only about politics, and personal gain, which is why we see it as a crime.We're sitting here arguing about "leakers" in Israeli Intelligence and WE as a nation are allowing powerful Intel Agencies like the NSA and CIA to be turned on our country and calling Snowden a traitor. Good for these folks. DOMESTIC intelligence of ANY type ought to have a conscience.
Was time not so long ago that our major spy outfits were ABSOLUTELY prohibited from domestic spying. NOW they have built their own domestic cell network for snooping. Hope Israel does a better job of protecting civil liberties than we do..
Anat Kamm Uri Blau affair - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Your post did not merit a response as it has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. It's straight out of the Hasbara/Advocates for Israel playbook: 1.Attempt to change the subject and 2. when that fails, resort to invective and personal abuse.When is the last time anyone saw an arab-based self-analysis committee, reviewing their war crimes and tactics like suicide bombings, beheadings, rocket fire from civilian neighborhoods and into them? How about a committee that reviews the lack of women's rights, civil rights, gay rights, and lack of freedoms such as press, assembly and free speech in places like gaza? Oh that's right, in 70 years there never has been any...
So you wont be bringing South Africa into any arguments ever again will you ?
You two off your meds again?
Typical non-response from the resident asshole, who of course cannot directly respond because there is no such thing. Weak minded trash who can only personally insult when confronted with crushing facts.
So tell us, shit for brains, of all of the numerous "fact-finding" missions conducted by arab muslims into their own criminal misbehavior...take your time idiot, it might be awhile before you can find any.
For the sane, here is one by the UN about the horrific conditions and backwardness of the arab muslim world, and its causes:
Arab development Self-doomed to failure The Economist
Self-doomed to failure
An unsparing new report by Arab scholars explains why their region lags behind so much of the world
This is what I was trying to say earlier, its not about civil liberties or moral/humane aspects, its only about politics, and personal gain, which is why we see it as a crime.We're sitting here arguing about "leakers" in Israeli Intelligence and WE as a nation are allowing powerful Intel Agencies like the NSA and CIA to be turned on our country and calling Snowden a traitor. Good for these folks. DOMESTIC intelligence of ANY type ought to have a conscience.
Was time not so long ago that our major spy outfits were ABSOLUTELY prohibited from domestic spying. NOW they have built their own domestic cell network for snooping. Hope Israel does a better job of protecting civil liberties than we do..
Anat Kamm Uri Blau affair - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
That's true.. You would have to be closer to the story to know the MOTIVES of the leakers. Good catch..
You two off your meds again?
The arab dev report is VERY relevant to the OP...
