free the people free the herb

[Big Fitz]

And most people that do drugs do not cause problems for others.

You've obviously never worked in hospitality or the public sector before and seen the reality of the situation.

Prove that more than a small percentage of drug users cause problems.
In my own experience more people got into trouble because of alchohol.
Your problem is you only see those that do get into trouble not the vast majority that don't.

Oh I've had my fair share of problems with drunks as well. The only reason it happened more often is that it IS legal. Intoxication is intoxication regardless of source. Now if you want drug use as rampant as alcohol or smoking, legalize it. And when you start seeing societal hellholes cropping up, get back to me on how awesome it is. Even China in the 1600's knew the dangers of Opium and tried to stop it and the English knew it as well, and used it to try to undermine Asian empires while working to keep it away from their shores.

 

[Blagger]

I've been reading about this in the news this morning, and I think some clear line have to be drawn until politicians that were in office, but aren't now, and businessmen like Richard Branson (who the hell is he to comment?!) can dismiss the efforts by law enforcement agencies all over the world in the off-hand manner in which they've done today. OK, I agree that legalisation will take a lot of power out of the hands of those that push often unreliable chemicals into the hands of vulnerable and experienced users alike, but I think a very contained and heavily scrutinised trial must precede and any long term blanket legalisation in the West.

In the context of this discussion, I'd like to add that I'm a conservative and cultivate a small amount of marijuana personal consumption. I also pay regular taxes and don't allow my smoking dope to impact on others i.e - I don't noncholantly smoke a joint in a public park or space in which children are likely to wonder what the sweet-smelling smoke is that's eminating from the joint betwixt my fingers; or their accomanyng parents becoming anxious for their childrens' safety. I smoke it in the privacy of my own home. I think that that level of due consideration qualifies me to add that I too think that applicants for state welfare/benefits must take drug tests every time they want to withdraw from the public purse. Welfare is, afterall, a luxury that we in the western world often take for granted when on hard times. So, in the interests of encouraging recipients back into employment, where they're less likely to obliged to submit to a drugs test, thus allowing them to smoke or ingest whatever narcotics they want (so long as it doesn't impact on others), then I can't see any harm in reminding them that the state assistance that they are recieving is a privilege, not a right.

That said, I think that some of the conservatives commenting on this thread have adopted an incredibly conspicuous 'holier than thou' attitude. Honestly, Fitz. Life for committing a crime under the influence of drugs. The time should fit the crime, nay? Otherwise, seeing as America is one of the most prolific consumers of illegal drugs, a third of the population would be behind bars, eventually.

 

[Big Fitz]

You've obviously never worked in hospitality or the public sector before and seen the reality of the situation.

Prove that more than a small percentage of drug users cause problems.
In my own experience more people got into trouble because of alchohol.
Your problem is you only see those that do get into trouble not the vast majority that don't.

Ask any Cop if he would rather deal with a stoner or and drunk.

I have, and have had to deal with them. They are both dangerous. Druggies often more so because they are paranoid the cops are going to bust them. But underage drunks are horror shows. they do REAL stupid shit.

 

[Truthmatters]

If you are drink coffee or tea, have a beer and take smoke breaks, you are a drug user.

Should they suffer the same fate as the marijuana user and be imprisoned?

Marijuana is well understood. It is relatively benign with almost no toxicity. It's detrimental effects include short term memory loss during intoxication, it can induce anxiety and paranoia with some users. and it inhibits REM sleep. It is far less toxic than nicotine, alcohol, and caffeine.

Ending prohibition, even if its just marijuana, will drastically reduce violent crime associated with the underground drug trade. It would create new jobs and boost the economy in terms of tax revenue and a new cash crop. People would also have access to good quality marijuana as legalization would remove the risks of poor quality control that comes from acquiring MJ on the black market. Marijuana has a number of medicinal uses as well. No human being has ever died from a Marijuana overdose.


Drug prohibition was imposed upon this country through propaganda, prior to its prohibition one could purchase it in a store, the founding fathers of this country grew and used MJ recreationally. Ending prohibition would remove the taboo associated with the drug and curb its abuse.

Caffeine doesn't impair judgment or cause any major illnesses. Alcohol, nicotine and drugs do. This bullshit about marijuana not being harmful is used by those who smoke it to justify their stupidity. Every major study across the world links MJ to mental illness. Which is fine, you want to risk that kind of damage, that's ok by me. It is not ok when I have to pick up the tab. And drug users, smokers and alcoholics are bleeding the rest of us dry with their asinine choices.

Legalize it. But.... ensure that they pay for their stupid behavior. That's fair. My medical insurance should not be affected because of their illnesses. I choice a healthy lifestyle. I should reap the financial benefit of that. So, no welfare, no assistance of any kind for anyone who chooses stupid over smart. Simple.

people who need fincial assitance can not be held to a different standard than the rest of the public.

That is pretty unconstitutional thinking.

If it is legal than its legal for everyone and poor people need not be punished it make you feel better.

 

[StevenC]

You were talking about addiction only.

No I wasn't. The loss of work, family problems, theft, and so on is far greater than most poeple would believe. I have seen what it deos to families.
I have also know lots of people who smoke pot that live perfectly normal lives and have raised families with no problems.

In the totality of it, illegal drugs cause a much higher body count, and that's a shade more important than addiction.

Only because they are illegal. And I am not convinced they cause a higher body count. I believe more people die from drunk driving. I would have to look it up to be sure.

 

[Luissa]

You:



And don't forget advocating the death penalty for crimes committed while on drugs

Now spin away!

One, since you've toked up this morning and have not quite figured out what I said. Not surprised, but am a little disappointed I have to explain the joke...



In this statement I am not saying it SHOULD be done. I am saying it WILL be done by the narco-fascists (see liberals and totalitarian whackjobs) who believe in 'feel good big government control) will use this methodology to own every druggies ass to make themselves into the new nobility and reduce you potheads into nothing more than mellow slaves. It is the DANGER I'm warning against that will come from legalizing drugs and taxing the crap out of it.

And don't forget advocating the death penalty for crimes committed while on drugs

Should be the case now. Recidivism would drop dramatically. If you can be charged with Murder One (which can result in the death penalty) for drinking and driving, I fail to see why this should not be the basis for dealing with those who steal, endanger or harm others while on, or for the fund to support their habit. Addicts will resort to any means to keep their habit, even if they run out of monies to feed it and become total trainwrecks. Nor should any working citizen who is behaving responsibly be obligated directly or indirectly through taxes to support this selfish act of nihilism.

Okay so you weren't serious with the narco-fascism thing but you sure as shit are advocating for the expansion of the ultimate big gov't authoritarian program: the death penalty.

Tell me, Fitz what types of crimes are you talking about?

Are you saying that you support the death penalty for someone who steals a pack of gum on weed?

Just looking to see how far you are willing to take your big gov't authoritarian policy.

 

[California Girl]

Prove that more than a small percentage of drug users cause problems.
In my own experience more people got into trouble because of alchohol.
Your problem is you only see those that do get into trouble not the vast majority that don't.

Ask any Cop if he would rather deal with a stoner or and drunk.

I have, and have had to deal with them. They are both dangerous. Druggies often more so because they are paranoid the cops are going to bust them. But underage drunks are horror shows. they do REAL stupid shit.

Most cops I know lump the drunks and the stoners together into one group - 'the stupid'. And they are right. Fucking drunks and fucking stoners are a drain on our resources. I see no reason why I should fund their stupidity.

 

[Big Fitz]

If you are drink coffee or tea, have a beer and take smoke breaks, you are a drug user.

Should they suffer the same fate as the marijuana user and be imprisoned?

Marijuana is well understood. It is relatively benign with almost no toxicity. It's detrimental effects include short term memory loss during intoxication, it can induce anxiety and paranoia with some users. and it inhibits REM sleep. It is far less toxic than nicotine, alcohol, and caffeine.

Ending prohibition, even if its just marijuana, will drastically reduce violent crime associated with the underground drug trade. It would create new jobs and boost the economy in terms of tax revenue and a new cash crop. People would also have access to good quality marijuana as legalization would remove the risks of poor quality control that comes from acquiring MJ on the black market. Marijuana has a number of medicinal uses as well. No human being has ever died from a Marijuana overdose.


Drug prohibition was imposed upon this country through propaganda, prior to its prohibition one could purchase it in a store, the founding fathers of this country grew and used MJ recreationally. Ending prohibition would remove the taboo associated with the drug and curb its abuse.

Caffeine doesn't impair judgment or cause any major illnesses. Alcohol, nicotine and drugs do. This bullshit about marijuana not being harmful is used by those who smoke it to justify their stupidity. Every major study across the world links MJ to mental illness. Which is fine, you want to risk that kind of damage, that's ok by me. It is not ok when I have to pick up the tab. And drug users, smokers and alcoholics are bleeding the rest of us dry with their asinine choices.

Legalize it. But.... ensure that they pay for their stupid behavior. That's fair. My medical insurance should not be affected because of their illnesses. I choice a healthy lifestyle. I should reap the financial benefit of that. So, no welfare, no assistance of any kind for anyone who chooses stupid over smart. Simple.

people who need fincial assitance can not be held to a different standard than the rest of the public.

That is pretty unconstitutional thinking.

If it is legal than its legal for everyone and poor people need not be punished it make you feel better.

There it is! Didn't expect to see it so quick though. Legalization is step one. Then:

"I have the right to get stoned and for you to be obligated to support me while I embark in selfish nihilism in the manner I desire."

 

[Big Fitz]

Ask any Cop if he would rather deal with a stoner or and drunk.

I have, and have had to deal with them. They are both dangerous. Druggies often more so because they are paranoid the cops are going to bust them. But underage drunks are horror shows. they do REAL stupid shit.

Most cops I know lump the drunks and the stoners together into one group - 'the stupid'. And they are right. Fucking drunks and fucking stoners are a drain on our resources. I see no reason why I should fund their stupidity.

turn on your thanks or rep, woman!

I'm sick of agreeing and not showing it.

 

[BlindBoo]

Now whoever would have thought YOU were a pot head.

I'm willing to concede this point if I have it codified into law that it is permitted to discriminate against druggies, and bar them from ALL public assistance, financial or material.

You wanna wreck your life, you don't get to do it at my expense OR in my proximity. I want the right to bar you from my property, access to my children, tax money, neigborhood, driving, workplace and government. You can avoid this by choosing to NOT be a dope....head.

Oh, and automatic death penalty for crimes committed for or while on drugs.

Do that and it fucks over all the right people. Drug growers, traffickers and foreign powers while protecting our rights and culls these assholes out of society.

While your at it include tobacco, alcohol, coffee users to the list. Oh and lets not forget the drug cocktail our doctors and pharmacies are pumping into people. Let have daily drug test for everyone.

Can you say Police State?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAYqjZ0LqYg]YouTube - ‪Tripping Daisy - prick‬‏[/ame]

 

[Two Thumbs]

The following things are worse than weed;

1.) Mcdonalds
2.) Not getting on a threadmill
3.) Alcohol
4.) Cigarettes
5.) Caffeine

Disclaimer: I've never smoked weed in my life, I just have the common sense to see it for what it is.

You forgot growing old

Making a law against getting old makes as much sense as making a law against using marijuana.

MJ is green
Soylent green is, well, It's in the name.

but I think you see what I'm getting at.

 

[StevenC]

You've obviously never worked in hospitality or the public sector before and seen the reality of the situation.

Prove that more than a small percentage of drug users cause problems.
In my own experience more people got into trouble because of alchohol.
Your problem is you only see those that do get into trouble not the vast majority that don't.

Oh I've had my fair share of problems with drunks as well. The only reason it happened more often is that it IS legal. Intoxication is intoxication regardless of source. Now if you want drug use as rampant as alcohol or smoking, legalize it. And when you start seeing societal hellholes cropping up, get back to me on how awesome it is. Even China in the 1600's knew the dangers of Opium and tried to stop it and the English knew it as well, and used it to try to undermine Asian empires while working to keep it away from their shores.

We didn't have the serious problems with drugs until we made them illegal.
The same argument was made with alchohol. So where is the destruction ending prohibition was supposed to cause?

 

[Luissa]

Now whoever would have thought YOU were a pot head.

I'm willing to concede this point if I have it codified into law that it is permitted to discriminate against druggies, and bar them from ALL public assistance, financial or material.

You wanna wreck your life, you don't get to do it at my expense OR in my proximity. I want the right to bar you from my property, access to my children, tax money, neigborhood, driving, workplace and government. You can avoid this by choosing to NOT be a dope....head.

Oh, and automatic death penalty for crimes committed for or while on drugs.

Do that and it fucks over all the right people. Drug growers, traffickers and foreign powers while protecting our rights and culls these assholes out of society.

While your at it include tobacco, alcohol, coffee users to the list. Oh and lets not forget the drug cocktail our doctors and pharmacies are pumping into people. Let have daily drug test for everyone.

Can you say Police State?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAYqjZ0LqYg]YouTube - ‪Tripping Daisy - prick‬‏[/ame]

But don't call him a big gov't authoritarian!

 

[StevenC]

Ask any Cop if he would rather deal with a stoner or and drunk.

I have, and have had to deal with them. They are both dangerous. Druggies often more so because they are paranoid the cops are going to bust them. But underage drunks are horror shows. they do REAL stupid shit.

Most cops I know lump the drunks and the stoners together into one group - 'the stupid'. And they are right. Fucking drunks and fucking stoners are a drain on our resources. I see no reason why I should fund their stupidity.

Show proof please.

 

[Dr.Drock]

You forgot growing old

Making a law against getting old makes as much sense as making a law against using marijuana.

MJ is green
Soylent green is, well, It's in the name.

but I think you see what I'm getting at.

Yeah if it were about health and you really wanted to regulate what people do in the privacy of their own homes, than it would make more sense and improve more peoples health than to force them to get on a treadmill every day.

However, of course, it has absolutely nothing to do with health or safety.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I have, and have had to deal with them. They are both dangerous. Druggies often more so because they are paranoid the cops are going to bust them. But underage drunks are horror shows. they do REAL stupid shit.

Most cops I know lump the drunks and the stoners together into one group - 'the stupid'. And they are right. Fucking drunks and fucking stoners are a drain on our resources. I see no reason why I should fund their stupidity.

Show proof please.

She's exactly right, they are a drain on our resources.....................because the Drug War exists.

So stop the Drug War, and thus stop draining our resources.

 

[Triton]

If you are drink coffee or tea, have a beer and take smoke breaks, you are a drug user.

Should they suffer the same fate as the marijuana user and be imprisoned?

Marijuana is well understood. It is relatively benign with almost no toxicity. It's detrimental effects include short term memory loss during intoxication, it can induce anxiety and paranoia with some users. and it inhibits REM sleep. It is far less toxic than nicotine, alcohol, and caffeine.

Ending prohibition, even if its just marijuana, will drastically reduce violent crime associated with the underground drug trade. It would create new jobs and boost the economy in terms of tax revenue and a new cash crop. People would also have access to good quality marijuana as legalization would remove the risks of poor quality control that comes from acquiring MJ on the black market. Marijuana has a number of medicinal uses as well. No human being has ever died from a Marijuana overdose.


Drug prohibition was imposed upon this country through propaganda, prior to its prohibition one could purchase it in a store, the founding fathers of this country grew and used MJ recreationally. Ending prohibition would remove the taboo associated with the drug and curb its abuse.

Caffeine doesn't impair judgment or cause any major illnesses. Alcohol, nicotine and drugs do. This bullshit about marijuana not being harmful is used by those who smoke it to justify their stupidity. Every major study across the world links MJ to mental illness. Which is fine, you want to risk that kind of damage, that's ok by me. It is not ok when I have to pick up the tab. And drug users, smokers and alcoholics are bleeding the rest of us dry with their asinine choices.

Legalize it. But.... ensure that they pay for their stupid behavior. That's fair. My medical insurance should not be affected because of their illnesses. I choice a healthy lifestyle. I should reap the financial benefit of that. So, no welfare, no assistance of any kind for anyone who chooses stupid over smart. Simple.

Caffeine most certainly can impair judgement, it can cause people to become irritable and overreact to minor stressors as it can facilitate a temporary manic state. Physiologically, it can produce irregular heart rythyms, cause dehydration, Disrupt or even inhibit sleep, and can inhibit nutrient absorption as well as deplete calcium in the body. It is physically addictive and leads to physical withdrawal during cessation.

MJ's links to mental illness show weak correlations. MJ can exasperate latent symptoms but mostly for those who's family history is composed of mental illness. MJ does not cause schizophrenia nor can any causal relationship be demonstrated between MJ and mental illness. MJ can be psychologically addictive but anything used in excess is going to cause problems.


If people commit crimes while intoxicated on any drug he or she should be punished to the full extent of the law regardless of the legal status of the substance.

 

[Big Fitz]

Now whoever would have thought YOU were a pot head.

I'm willing to concede this point if I have it codified into law that it is permitted to discriminate against druggies, and bar them from ALL public assistance, financial or material.

You wanna wreck your life, you don't get to do it at my expense OR in my proximity. I want the right to bar you from my property, access to my children, tax money, neigborhood, driving, workplace and government. You can avoid this by choosing to NOT be a dope....head.

Oh, and automatic death penalty for crimes committed for or while on drugs.

Do that and it fucks over all the right people. Drug growers, traffickers and foreign powers while protecting our rights and culls these assholes out of society.

While your at it include tobacco, alcohol, coffee users to the list. Oh and lets not forget the drug cocktail our doctors and pharmacies are pumping into people. Let have daily drug test for everyone.

Can you say Police State?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAYqjZ0LqYg]YouTube - ‪Tripping Daisy - prick‬‏[/ame]

Please keep up.

 

[Big Fitz]

I have, and have had to deal with them. They are both dangerous. Druggies often more so because they are paranoid the cops are going to bust them. But underage drunks are horror shows. they do REAL stupid shit.

Most cops I know lump the drunks and the stoners together into one group - 'the stupid'. And they are right. Fucking drunks and fucking stoners are a drain on our resources. I see no reason why I should fund their stupidity.

Show proof please.

Watch "Cops" or "America's funniest Police Chases" or whatever they call themselves.

 

[whitehall]

Funny how support for drug use tends to end up on the left side of the political spectrum. The Big Apple, the symbol of liberal thought, just made it illegal to smoke a cigarette on the street and left wingers want to legalize marijuana? Isn't there any common sense left in liberalism?