France INcome Tax raised to 100%: Total Marxism

[eagle1462010]

You need to look no further than Detroit to see what happens when the Liberals take Full Control.

They Drive Business out. They tax what is left of them to death. Jobs go away. The people leave, and the City is Bankrupt.

Over half of Detroit has left.

On a State Level. California. The State has taxed and Regulated Business to death. So for DECADES businesses have been leaving to other states or countries to escape being punished for opening a business there. Now California has a Very Large Debt, and so they attack what's left and more leave.

Then they wonder why are they leaving............................

Texas. Conservatively run. No State Taxes. Very Business Friendly, and has a thriving economy.

Reality is a bitch Liberals. YOU ARE WRONG.

Guy, you live in your own reality.

Texas is still nearly a third world country, if you spun it off as its own nation. The fact that businesses go there is because it's a nice conduit for all that poorer than shit labor from Mexico.

Liberalism didn't destroy Detroit. Detroit lost to Volkswagon and Toyota. Companies where the workforces are unionized and the unions even have a say in who the CEO is.

And the CEO's of those companies DON'T make 8 figures.

Oh. So the only reason for Texas Success is Mexican Labor. LOL

And I'm the one who is supposed to live in my own reality.

The Unions in Detroit destroyed the auto industry there, by ALWAYS WANTING MORE, MORE, MORE pushing labor costs through the roof. You quote examples of Toyota and Volkswagon whose labor costs were much lower than Detroit.

Then you wonder why the companies got beat. You should also wonder why the auto plants in the country have moved to the south instead of the Traditional North.

Oh, but it wasn't LIBERAL LEADERS and Unions that caused the mass exit of over a Million people from Detroit. Were you dropped on your head at birth or something?


Finally, in California. Since the only reason the Economy in Texas is Mexican Labor, then there MUST BE NO MEXICANS IN CALIFORNIA. Last I heard, I think California borders Canada or something.

You really hang it all out there don't you, for your LIBERAL MANTRA. Denying the Reality of your BS, even when shown data to the contrary. I've seen it all over threads now on this board.

Marx would be happy with ya.

 

[Jarlaxle]

[

So...in Joey-world, what would, say, an expert heart surgeon be paid? How about one of the three or four people in the WORLD able to do, say, pediatric neurosurgery?

DAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYUM, you are fucking dumb!

That just tells me we don't have enough specialists.

You kind of are making my point. Why should you be held hostage to someone else's greed.

Strikes me, he should be paid for his expertise, but if he could charge what people actually could pay, he wouldn't have any customers.

This is why private insurance is collapsing, because a lot of these medical professionals are as greedy as the insurance CEO's.

Yeah, because it's EASY to train a neurosurgeon!

Dude, does it hurt to be THIS FUCKING STUPID?

 

[JoeB131]

[



Oh. So the only reason for Texas Success is Mexican Labor. LOL

And I'm the one who is supposed to live in my own reality.

The Unions in Detroit destroyed the auto industry there, by ALWAYS WANTING MORE, MORE, MORE pushing labor costs through the roof. You quote examples of Toyota and Volkswagon whose labor costs were much lower than Detroit.

Then you wonder why the companies got beat. You should also wonder why the auto plants in the country have moved to the south instead of the Traditional North.

Oh, but it wasn't LIBERAL LEADERS and Unions that caused the mass exit of over a Million people from Detroit. Were you dropped on your head at birth or something?


Finally, in California. Since the only reason the Economy in Texas is Mexican Labor, then there MUST BE NO MEXICANS IN CALIFORNIA. Last I heard, I think California borders Canada or something.

You really hang it all out there don't you, for your LIBERAL MANTRA. Denying the Reality of your BS, even when shown data to the contrary. I've seen it all over threads now on this board.

Marx would be happy with ya.

Guy, I've worked in the Automotive Supply industry. Three of my last four employers provided goods or services to the auto-industry.

The Auto Industry was not wrecked by union workers insisting on making a whopping $28.00 an hour.

The Auto Industry was wrecked by CEO insisting on continuing to build gas-guzzling hogs because they were more profitable to sell, even when the WORLD market was moving away from them.

I just wonder why you think it's okay for CEO's to get 8 figure salaries as not being greedy, but an autoworker to get a fair living wage as being greedy. Really trying to understand that logic.

Because, honestly, I doubt you're rich.

So with the class warfare waging, why do you insist on siding with the enemy?

 

[JoeB131]

[

So...in Joey-world, what would, say, an expert heart surgeon be paid? How about one of the three or four people in the WORLD able to do, say, pediatric neurosurgery?

DAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYUM, you are fucking dumb!

That just tells me we don't have enough specialists.

You kind of are making my point. Why should you be held hostage to someone else's greed.

Strikes me, he should be paid for his expertise, but if he could charge what people actually could pay, he wouldn't have any customers.

This is why private insurance is collapsing, because a lot of these medical professionals are as greedy as the insurance CEO's.

Yeah, because it's EASY to train a neurosurgeon!

Dude, does it hurt to be THIS FUCKING STUPID?

Guy, it strikes me that you are probably the one who needs a nuerosurgeon...your brain doesn't work right.

If there was only ONE Neurosurgeon on the entire planet, he should not make 8 figures. He should make a fair wage for his expertise. nothing more, nothing less.

Which IS the way the rest of the world does it.

 

[eagle1462010]

[



Oh. So the only reason for Texas Success is Mexican Labor. LOL

And I'm the one who is supposed to live in my own reality.

The Unions in Detroit destroyed the auto industry there, by ALWAYS WANTING MORE, MORE, MORE pushing labor costs through the roof. You quote examples of Toyota and Volkswagon whose labor costs were much lower than Detroit.

Then you wonder why the companies got beat. You should also wonder why the auto plants in the country have moved to the south instead of the Traditional North.

Oh, but it wasn't LIBERAL LEADERS and Unions that caused the mass exit of over a Million people from Detroit. Were you dropped on your head at birth or something?


Finally, in California. Since the only reason the Economy in Texas is Mexican Labor, then there MUST BE NO MEXICANS IN CALIFORNIA. Last I heard, I think California borders Canada or something.

You really hang it all out there don't you, for your LIBERAL MANTRA. Denying the Reality of your BS, even when shown data to the contrary. I've seen it all over threads now on this board.

Marx would be happy with ya.

Guy, I've worked in the Automotive Supply industry. Three of my last four employers provided goods or services to the auto-industry.

The Auto Industry was not wrecked by union workers insisting on making a whopping $28.00 an hour.

The Auto Industry was wrecked by CEO insisting on continuing to build gas-guzzling hogs because they were more profitable to sell, even when the WORLD market was moving away from them.

I just wonder why you think it's okay for CEO's to get 8 figure salaries as not being greedy, but an autoworker to get a fair living wage as being greedy. Really trying to understand that logic.

Because, honestly, I doubt you're rich.

So with the class warfare waging, why do you insist on siding with the enemy?

YAWN

You wouldn't be cherry picking data now would you...................................

Showing the wages after Concessions made....................................

GM - UAW Settlement Includes Jobs for Concessions

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/business/economy/10leonhardt.html

That figure — repeated on television and in newspapers as the average pay of a Big Three autoworker — has become a big symbol in the fight over what should happen to Detroit. To critics, it is a neat encapsulation of everything that’s wrong with bloated car companies and their entitled workers.

To the Big Three’s defenders, meanwhile, the number has become proof positive that autoworkers are being unfairly blamed for Detroit’s decline. “We’ve heard this garbage about 73 bucks an hour,” Senator Bob Casey, a Pennsylvania Democrat, said last week. “It’s a total lie. I think some people have perpetrated that deliberately, in a calculated way, to mislead the American people about what we’re doing here.”

So what is the reality behind the number? Detroit’s defenders are right that the number is basically wrong. Big Three workers aren’t making anything close to $73 an hour (which would translate to about $150,000 a year).

But the defenders are not right to suggest, as many have, that Detroit has solved its wage problem. General Motors, Ford and Chrysler workers make significantly more than their counterparts at Toyota, Honda and Nissan plants in this country. Last year’s concessions by the United Automobile Workers, which mostly apply to new workers, will not change that anytime soon.

And yet the main problem facing Detroit, overwhelmingly, is not the pay gap. That’s unfortunate because fixing the pay gap would be fairly straightforward.

The real problem is that many people don’t want to buy the cars that Detroit makes. Fixing this problem won’t be nearly so easy.

The success of any bailout is probably going to come down to Washington’s willingness to acknowledge as much.

Let’s start with the numbers. The $73-an-hour figure comes from the car companies themselves. As part of their public relations strategy during labor negotiations, the companies put out various charts and reports explaining what they paid their workers. Wall Street analysts have done similar calculations.

The calculations show, accurately enough, that for every hour a unionized worker puts in, one of the Big Three really does spend about $73 on compensation. So the number isn’t made up. But it is the combination of three very different categories.

The first category is simply cash payments, which is what many people imagine when they hear the word “compensation.” It includes wages, overtime and vacation pay, and comes to about $40 an hour. (The numbers vary a bit by company and year. That’s why $73 is sometimes $70 or $77.)

The second category is fringe benefits, like health insurance and pensions. These benefits have real value, even if they don’t show up on a weekly paycheck. At the Big Three, the benefits amount to $15 an hour or so.

Add the two together, and you get the true hourly compensation of Detroit’s unionized work force: roughly $55 an hour. It’s a little more than twice as much as the typical American worker makes, benefits included. The more relevant comparison, though, is probably to Honda’s or Toyota’s (nonunionized) workers. They make in the neighborhood of $45 an hour, and most of the gap stems from their less generous benefits.

The third category is the cost of benefits for retirees. These are essentially fixed costs that have no relation to how many vehicles the companies make. But they are a real cost, so the companies add them into the mix — dividing those costs by the total hours of the current work force, to get a figure of $15 or so — and end up at roughly $70 an hour.

The crucial point, though, is this $15 isn’t mainly a reflection of how generous the retiree benefits are. It’s a reflection of how many retirees there are. The Big Three built up a huge pool of retirees long before Honda and Toyota opened plants in this country. You’d never know this by looking at the graphic behind Wolf Blitzer on CNN last week, contrasting the “$73/hour” pay of Detroit’s workers with the “up to $48/hour” pay of workers at the Japanese companies.

These retirees make up arguably Detroit’s best case for a bailout. The Big Three and the U.A.W. had the bad luck of helping to create the middle class in a country where individual companies — as opposed to all of society — must shoulder much of the burden of paying for retirement.

So here’s a little experiment. Imagine that a Congressional bailout effectively pays for $10 an hour of the retiree benefits. That’s roughly the gap between the Big Three’s retiree costs and those of the Japanese-owned plants in this country. Imagine, also, that the U.A.W. agrees to reduce pay and benefits for current workers to $45 an hour — the same as at Honda and Toyota.

Do you know how much that would reduce the cost of producing a Big Three vehicle? Only about $800.

That’s because labor costs, for all the attention they have been receiving, make up only about 10 percent of the cost of making a vehicle. An extra $800 per vehicle would certainly help Detroit, but the Big Three already often sell their cars for about $2,500 less than equivalent cars from Japanese companies, analysts at the International Motor Vehicle Program say. Even so, many Americans no longer want to own the cars being made by General Motors, Ford and Chrysler.

My own family’s story isn’t especially unusual. For decades, my grandparents bought American and only American. In their apartment, they still have a framed photo of the 1933 Oldsmobile that my grandfather’s family drove when he was a teenager. In the photo, his father stands proudly on the car’s running board.

By the 1970s, though, my grandfather became so sick of the problems with his American cars that he vowed never to buy another one. He hasn’t.

Detroit’s defenders, from top executives on down, insist that they have finally learned their lesson. They say a comeback is just around the corner. But they said the same thing at the start of this decade — and the start of the last one and the one before that. All the while, their market share has kept on falling.

There is good reason to keep G.M. and Chrysler from collapsing in 2009. (Ford is in slightly better shape.) The economy is in the worst recession in a generation. You can think of the Detroit bailout as a relatively cost-effective form of stimulus. It’s often cheaper to keep workers in their jobs than to create new jobs.

But Congress and the Obama administration shouldn’t fool themselves into thinking that they can preserve the Big Three in anything like their current form. Very soon, they need to shrink to a size that reflects the American public’s collective judgment about the quality of their products.

It’s a sad story, in many ways. But it can’t really be undone at this point. If we had wanted to preserve the Big Three, we would have bought more of their cars.

 

[JoeB131]

Did you actually compehend that word dump before you posted it?

Here's the problem. Nissan has a lower hourly wage because they haven't been operating in the US long enough to have a large pension obligation. (I know. Pensions! What a concept. Don't you know we should get workers to invest in a 401K so that Wall Street can go to the casino!)

And how is it that the FIRST thing they look at when a company restructures is never the pay and perks of Executives?

 

[eagle1462010]

While you are right that the market changed due to higher gas prices, you don't add in the fact that the UAW members had some of the best packages around. So rightly so, LABOR COSTS were higher than their competitors.

Even had the Big 3 started earlier on mpg cars, they would have still been at a disadvantage to the competitors due to labor costs.

Now, after being bailed by the Gov't, they are making the economy auto's but still losing out to the competition, and a lot of that is due to COSTS

While I'm not in the auto business, I've actually met those down here who were from Detroit. One in particular, who used to work with the UAW. He stated that the Auto Maker made the mistake by offering BETTER INSURANCE PACKAGES, over wages. He stated at the time, the UAW was willing to take small pay rate increases instead. Then the Gold Plated Insurance packages started costing a hell of lot more than anticipated, and drove the cost of Labor up significantly.

That same individual has a home up there. It's underwater, and he can't live there as there is no work. He stated that he didn't want to ruin his credit, but couldn't afford to live across the country and still pay for a home where there was no work.

aka He was considering letting the house go and let the chips fall where they may.

Bottom line Detroit is in RUIN. Run by Dems, and RUN BY UNIONS. In every aspect up there, the UNIONS RULE THE ROOST, and they drove up Gov't cost across the board. Not just in the Auto Industry.

And now the city is Bankrupt, and the people are gone.

I live in Alabama. We have new car plants here. They are THRIVING. Not as well due to the economy, but they are not in danger of Going under. This is a right to work state. The employees there get good wages and packages. The Workers have a stable financial situation in those places.

.................AND DETROIT IS IN ASHES...............................

 

[eagle1462010]

Did you actually compehend that word dump before you posted it?

Here's the problem. Nissan has a lower hourly wage because they haven't been operating in the US long enough to have a large pension obligation. (I know. Pensions! What a concept. Don't you know we should get workers to invest in a 401K so that Wall Street can go to the casino!)

And how is it that the FIRST thing they look at when a company restructures is never the pay and perks of Executives?

Apples to Oranges. Nissan has had pensions in Japan for a very long time. They still produce a butt load of autos there. But let's ignore that.

 

[eagle1462010]

BTW

Nissan operates in 50 countries around the globe. I guess we should ignore any of that data or 401k issues as well.

 

[daveman]

[
Thank you for perfectly illustrating the far left's irrational hatred for business:

"Big corporations want to kill all their customers, thus maximizing profits!!"

Hey, genius: If all the customers are dead, who's going to buy their products?

Did say I, "All".

But that was the point with the Ford Pinto.

It would have cost $11.00 per unit to fix the gas tank problem that made the Pinto the "Barbaque that Seats Four".

And someone at Ford ran the numbers, and figured that paying out 100 claims on fatalities was cheaper than recalling 2 million cars. Until the government FORCED them to do a recall, that is.

And don't get me started on the Tobacco Industry, which knew for decades their products caused cancer.

Or the people who manufactured asbestos, who knew as far back as the 1940's that it was a carcinogen, and insisted in putting it in pretty much everything.

And the Marxism you advocate killed 100 million people.

So you don't care about how many people are killed. You just want them killed the "right" way.

 

[daveman]

NOT ONE SINGLE person from the left has been able to explain this.

No, there really is no Explanation for a guy like Uncle Tom Sowell, who would be riding on the back of the bus if it weren't for liberals he hates so much.

I'm thinking much like Mia Love (whatever happened to her? Oh yeah, who cares!), he's just a self-loathing black person.

Sorry, guy, if you are up in the 7 and 8 figure range of wealth, you aren't earning anything, you are taking the fruits of someone else's labor.

You pay your taxes and don't whinge about it.

Negged for being a racist.

Meanwhile, you failed to explain the dichotomy.

But then, racists are stupid, so you're simply not equipped.

 

[daveman]

The Auto Industry was not wrecked by union workers insisting on making a whopping $28.00 an hour.

Indeed it wasn't.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/business/economy/10leonhardt.html?_r=0

The calculations show, accurately enough, that for every hour a unionized worker puts in, one of the Big Three really does spend about $73 on compensation. So the number isn’t made up. But it is the combination of three very different categories.

The first category is simply cash payments, which is what many people imagine when they hear the word “compensation.” It includes wages, overtime and vacation pay, and comes to about $40 an hour. (The numbers vary a bit by company and year. That’s why $73 is sometimes $70 or $77.)

The second category is fringe benefits, like health insurance and pensions. These benefits have real value, even if they don’t show up on a weekly paycheck. At the Big Three, the benefits amount to $15 an hour or so.

Add the two together, and you get the true hourly compensation of Detroit’s unionized work force: roughly $55 an hour. It’s a little more than twice as much as the typical American worker makes, benefits included. The more relevant comparison, though, is probably to Honda’s or Toyota’s (nonunionized) workers. They make in the neighborhood of $45 an hour, and most of the gap stems from their less generous benefits.

The third category is the cost of benefits for retirees. These are essentially fixed costs that have no relation to how many vehicles the companies make. But they are a real cost, so the companies add them into the mix — dividing those costs by the total hours of the current work force, to get a figure of $15 or so — and end up at roughly $70 an hour.​

 

[JoeB131]

Did you actually compehend that word dump before you posted it?

Here's the problem. Nissan has a lower hourly wage because they haven't been operating in the US long enough to have a large pension obligation. (I know. Pensions! What a concept. Don't you know we should get workers to invest in a 401K so that Wall Street can go to the casino!)

And how is it that the FIRST thing they look at when a company restructures is never the pay and perks of Executives?

Apples to Oranges. Nissan has had pensions in Japan for a very long time. They still produce a butt load of autos there. But let's ignore that.

Japan also has universal health care... which means that they have no health care obligation.

Japanese Auto Workers are also unionized, and the unions in Japan have a say in who is on the Board of Directors.

So if you really, really want to go there, I'm game.

 

[JoeB131]

NOT ONE SINGLE person from the left has been able to explain this.

No, there really is no Explanation for a guy like Uncle Tom Sowell, who would be riding on the back of the bus if it weren't for liberals he hates so much.

I'm thinking much like Mia Love (whatever happened to her? Oh yeah, who cares!), he's just a self-loathing black person.

Sorry, guy, if you are up in the 7 and 8 figure range of wealth, you aren't earning anything, you are taking the fruits of someone else's labor.

You pay your taxes and don't whinge about it.

Negged for being a racist.

Meanwhile, you failed to explain the dichotomy.

But then, racists are stupid, so you're simply not equipped.

I explained it perfectly.

People are taxed to pay for the benefits of living in a civilized society.

The wealthy having more wealth they didn't earn, SHOULD be taxed at a higher rate.

And Stepandfetchit up there would know this if he wasn't too busy licking boots.

 

[daveman]

No, there really is no Explanation for a guy like Uncle Tom Sowell, who would be riding on the back of the bus if it weren't for liberals he hates so much.

I'm thinking much like Mia Love (whatever happened to her? Oh yeah, who cares!), he's just a self-loathing black person.

Sorry, guy, if you are up in the 7 and 8 figure range of wealth, you aren't earning anything, you are taking the fruits of someone else's labor.

You pay your taxes and don't whinge about it.

Negged for being a racist.

Meanwhile, you failed to explain the dichotomy.

But then, racists are stupid, so you're simply not equipped.

I explained it perfectly.

People are taxed to pay for the benefits of living in a civilized society.

The wealthy having more wealth they didn't earn, SHOULD be taxed at a higher rate.

And Stepandfetchit up there would know this if he wasn't too busy licking boots.

^^^^ How the left treats blacks who don't do as they're told. Racist asshole.

Like all progressives, you're greedy for that which you haven't earned. You try to hide it with lofty-sounding phrases, but it all boils down to "Give me free money!!"

How very pathetic.

 

[JoeB131]

Negged for being a racist.

Meanwhile, you failed to explain the dichotomy.

But then, racists are stupid, so you're simply not equipped.

I explained it perfectly.

People are taxed to pay for the benefits of living in a civilized society.

The wealthy having more wealth they didn't earn, SHOULD be taxed at a higher rate.

And Stepandfetchit up there would know this if he wasn't too busy licking boots.

^^^^ How the left treats blacks who don't do as they're told. Racist asshole.

Like all progressives, you're greedy for that which you haven't earned. You try to hide it with lofty-sounding phrases, but it all boils down to "Give me free money!!"

How very pathetic.

No, it's more along the lines of "Give me what I've worked hard for and earned."

Nobody in the world is producing 8 figures of value. Nobody.

There are people earning that kind of money, usually off the sweat and innovations of others.

The problem with you guys is that you mistake parasites for vital organs.

You think Paris Hilton is a "Maker" because she's rich, and the poor woman changing dirty sheets in her hotels is a taker because she needs MedicAid and Section 8 because Paris isn't paying her enough.

And people like Thomas Sowell, who would be changing those bedsheets if it werent' for liberals demanding equal rights on the basis of race, do kind of sicken me.

BUt even when I was Right Wing, I thought black conservatives were generally kind of self-loathing.

 

[daveman]

I explained it perfectly.

People are taxed to pay for the benefits of living in a civilized society.

The wealthy having more wealth they didn't earn, SHOULD be taxed at a higher rate.

And Stepandfetchit up there would know this if he wasn't too busy licking boots.

^^^^ How the left treats blacks who don't do as they're told. Racist asshole.

Like all progressives, you're greedy for that which you haven't earned. You try to hide it with lofty-sounding phrases, but it all boils down to "Give me free money!!"

How very pathetic.

No, it's more along the lines of "Give me what I've worked hard for and earned."

Nobody in the world is producing 8 figures of value. Nobody.

There are people earning that kind of money, usually off the sweat and innovations of others.

The problem with you guys is that you mistake parasites for vital organs.

You think Paris Hilton is a "Maker" because she's rich, and the poor woman changing dirty sheets in her hotels is a taker because she needs MedicAid and Section 8 because Paris isn't paying her enough.

And people like Thomas Sowell, who would be changing those bedsheets if it werent' for liberals demanding equal rights on the basis of race, do kind of sicken me.

BUt even when I was Right Wing, I thought black conservatives were generally kind of self-loathing.

It's always amusing when people who think for themselves try to dictate what other people are thinking.

I don't think Hilton is a maker. I don't think of her at all. I DAMN sure don't sit around fuming about all the money she's got.

Oh, and yes, you're a racist. Undeniably.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I explained it perfectly.

People are taxed to pay for the benefits of living in a civilized society.

The wealthy having more wealth they didn't earn, SHOULD be taxed at a higher rate.

And Stepandfetchit up there would know this if he wasn't too busy licking boots.

^^^^ How the left treats blacks who don't do as they're told. Racist asshole.

Like all progressives, you're greedy for that which you haven't earned. You try to hide it with lofty-sounding phrases, but it all boils down to "Give me free money!!"

How very pathetic.

No, it's more along the lines of "Give me what I've worked hard for and earned."

Nobody in the world is producing 8 figures of value. Nobody.

There are people earning that kind of money, usually off the sweat and innovations of others.

The problem with you guys is that you mistake parasites for vital organs.

You think Paris Hilton is a "Maker" because she's rich, and the poor woman changing dirty sheets in her hotels is a taker because she needs MedicAid and Section 8 because Paris isn't paying her enough.

And people like Thomas Sowell, who would be changing those bedsheets if it werent' for liberals demanding equal rights on the basis of race, do kind of sicken me.

BUt even when I was Right Wing, I thought black conservatives were generally kind of self-loathing.

The dry-cleaner called, boy. Your white sheet and hood are ready.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

[
Thank you for perfectly illustrating the far left's irrational hatred for business:

"Big corporations want to kill all their customers, thus maximizing profits!!"

Hey, genius: If all the customers are dead, who's going to buy their products?

Did say I, "All".

But that was the point with the Ford Pinto.

It would have cost $11.00 per unit to fix the gas tank problem that made the Pinto the "Barbaque that Seats Four".

And someone at Ford ran the numbers, and figured that paying out 100 claims on fatalities was cheaper than recalling 2 million cars. Until the government FORCED them to do a recall, that is.

And don't get me started on the Tobacco Industry, which knew for decades their products caused cancer.

Or the people who manufactured asbestos, who knew as far back as the 1940's that it was a carcinogen, and insisted in putting it in pretty much everything.

And the Marxism you advocate killed 100 million people.

So you don't care about how many people are killed. You just want them killed the "right" way.

100,000,000 is an underestimate. CHina is over 80 million, Russian over 40, the Fascist branch of Marxism (Nazi Germany0 took upwards of 10.

And those are the violent deaths. How about those millions that simply died from starvation because of the destitution and poverty that was wreaked about them?