Former New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin indicted

[Pogo]

Nagin should be charged with destruction of city property, too. If he'd followed his city's evacuation plan, these buses wouldn't have been destroyed:

Ah, nothing like dumbing-down the news. Intellectual fast food. Then an hour later you're hungry again.

It's a nice mythology but not that simple:
It is unclear whether Mayor Nagin knew these particular buses existed, since the Orleans Parish School Board is not under his jurisdiction and his office would not normally know the location of OPSB bus yards or be able to contact the drivers of those buses to place them into service. Normally it is the job of FEMA to coordinate between the various local jurisdictions such as the OPSB and the City of New Orleans in this case. That is, under the rules of prior hurricane responses, FEMA would ask all local jurisdictions for a list of resources under their control. Then FEMA would have taken a request from Nagin for buses, relayed it to the Orleans Parish School Board or other local jurisdictions which had buses, and at that point the OPSB would have provided the buses to Nagin. That coordination did not happen here, but it is unclear whether Nagin ever made such a request prior to the hurricane and after the hurricane they were underwater and useless.

However, if he had known about them, the declaration of a state of emergency on August 26 gave him the right under Louisiana law to commandeer them for the duration of the emergency. The failure to issue a timely evacuation order in effect made it physically impossible to evacuate the nursing homes, hospitals, and those without automobiles. -- Wikinews

Then there would be the logistics of rounding up drivers for these buses (if they were even in working condition) the time frame of doing all this in a maximum of two days -- the same two days the populace was already scrambling, and the inevitable expense it would all have cost, feeding yet more Monday morning quarterback whiners like Berzerk.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Typical liberal scum....pogo the shithead is defending Nagin, a fellow criminal scumbag.

 

[Pogo]

Oh, please. Not EVERYTHING is a conspiracy, except to those who are looking for it.

Here...this is just from Google News. 490 news items about Nagin's indictment. Look through it and see if you can't find some "progressive" news outlets mentioning it.

Former New Orleans Mayor Indicted for...

(Hint: Bet ya can....lot's of 'em!)

Uh... do you know how long any Republican has ever been a mayor of New Orleans?
Two years. 1870 to 1872. That's it. You have to be a "Democrat" at least in name or you're never going to get elected. It's a given. To attempt otherwise would be like running for Senator in Utah without an R after your name.

Not that Nagin acted like one; he was a George Bush supporter.

This was also for me the most surprising part of the story:
Nagin becomes the first mayor in the city's 295-year history to be indicted under federal corruption charges.

No wonder all that federal money never did any good in New Orleans. The Democrats used the money to line their pockets and never took care of the flooding problems. Since when do Democrats support Republicans? Just one more lie.

Umm... you really can't go up against those of us who actually lived there. Experience trumps imagination. We actually remember.

For it is written:
He did not seek any other public office prior to his election in 2002. More controversially, Nagin had actually been a registered Republican for most of his adult life, having switched to the Democrats shortly before seeking office, for which his candidacy was branded as opportunistic in the solidly Democrat city. Nagin was, at that time, a known supporter of U.S. President George W. Bush, having contributed to the president’s campaign. Nagin entered the New Orleans mayoral race a political unknown but emerged through the middle of a crowded field of known Democrats, securing vital cross-party and in-party endorsements for his populist pledges to tackle city hall corruption and run the administration in a more business-like manner. (Nagin Wiki)

 

[daveman]

Nagin should be charged with destruction of city property, too. If he'd followed his city's evacuation plan, these buses wouldn't have been destroyed:

Ah, nothing like dumbing-down the news. Intellectual fast food. Then an hour later you're hungry again.

It's a nice mythology but not that simple:
It is unclear whether Mayor Nagin knew these particular buses existed, since the Orleans Parish School Board is not under his jurisdiction and his office would not normally know the location of OPSB bus yards or be able to contact the drivers of those buses to place them into service. Normally it is the job of FEMA to coordinate between the various local jurisdictions such as the OPSB and the City of New Orleans in this case. That is, under the rules of prior hurricane responses, FEMA would ask all local jurisdictions for a list of resources under their control. Then FEMA would have taken a request from Nagin for buses, relayed it to the Orleans Parish School Board or other local jurisdictions which had buses, and at that point the OPSB would have provided the buses to Nagin. That coordination did not happen here, but it is unclear whether Nagin ever made such a request prior to the hurricane and after the hurricane they were underwater and useless.

However, if he had known about them, the declaration of a state of emergency on August 26 gave him the right under Louisiana law to commandeer them for the duration of the emergency. The failure to issue a timely evacuation order in effect made it physically impossible to evacuate the nursing homes, hospitals, and those without automobiles. -- Wikinews

Then there would be the logistics of rounding up drivers for these buses (if they were even in working condition) the time frame of doing all this in a maximum of two days -- the same two days the populace was already scrambling, and the inevitable expense it would all have cost, feeding yet more Monday morning quarterback whiners like Berzerk.

Unsurprisingly, you keep making excuses for Nagin's incompetence.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Yep...it isn't Nagin's fault a hurricane hit New Orleans and his city wasn't prepared.......that be Buuuuuuuuuuuush's fault. George W Bush is supposed to make sure New Orleans was ready for a hurricane hitting it, not the mayor of New Orleans....he is too busy robbing people to do his own job.

 

[Pogo]

Typical liberal scum....pogo the shithead is defending Nagin, a fellow criminal scumbag.

Nobody in the world is going to "defend" Ray Nagin. His name is mud, especially in New Olreans.

What I defend is true history.
Don't like it? Tough shit, Winston Smith.

 

[Pogo]

Nagin should be charged with destruction of city property, too. If he'd followed his city's evacuation plan, these buses wouldn't have been destroyed:

Ah, nothing like dumbing-down the news. Intellectual fast food. Then an hour later you're hungry again.

It's a nice mythology but not that simple:
It is unclear whether Mayor Nagin knew these particular buses existed, since the Orleans Parish School Board is not under his jurisdiction and his office would not normally know the location of OPSB bus yards or be able to contact the drivers of those buses to place them into service. Normally it is the job of FEMA to coordinate between the various local jurisdictions such as the OPSB and the City of New Orleans in this case. That is, under the rules of prior hurricane responses, FEMA would ask all local jurisdictions for a list of resources under their control. Then FEMA would have taken a request from Nagin for buses, relayed it to the Orleans Parish School Board or other local jurisdictions which had buses, and at that point the OPSB would have provided the buses to Nagin. That coordination did not happen here, but it is unclear whether Nagin ever made such a request prior to the hurricane and after the hurricane they were underwater and useless.

However, if he had known about them, the declaration of a state of emergency on August 26 gave him the right under Louisiana law to commandeer them for the duration of the emergency. The failure to issue a timely evacuation order in effect made it physically impossible to evacuate the nursing homes, hospitals, and those without automobiles. -- Wikinews

Then there would be the logistics of rounding up drivers for these buses (if they were even in working condition) the time frame of doing all this in a maximum of two days -- the same two days the populace was already scrambling, and the inevitable expense it would all have cost, feeding yet more Monday morning quarterback whiners like Berzerk.

Unsurprisingly, you keep making excuses for Nagin's incompetence.

That's not excusing Nagin's incompetence. It's showcasing that of your research. That journalistic onanism that divides the world into red and blue teams and then flails about to put points on its own scoreboard.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Nice backtrack, shitbag.

Oh, you deny the black people of New Orleans didn't riot and loot during/after the storm? they also didn't scam the Feds when FEMA came rushing in with debit cards?

Typical liberal scum....pogo the shithead is defending Nagin, a fellow criminal scumbag.

Nobody in the world is going to "defend" Ray Nagin. His name is mud, especially in New Olreans.

What I defend is true history.
Don't like it? Tough shit, Winston Smith.

 

[Desperado]

It is not like they were not warned about what was about to happen.
This was the actual warning issued by the National Hurricane Center at 1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28, 2005. After reading this, Nagin did nothing to evacuate his city. He could have used those buses pictured above to remove those that did not have transportation of their own....

WWUS74 KLIX 281550
NPWLIX

URGENT — WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28, 2005

...DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED...

.HURRICANE KATRINA...A MOST POWERFUL HURRICANE WITH UNPRECEDENTED
STRENGTH...RIVALING THE INTENSITY OF HURRICANE CAMILLE OF 1969.

MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT
LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL
FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY
DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL.
PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD
FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE
BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME
WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.

HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A
FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.

AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH
AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES
AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE
ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE
WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK.

POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN
AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING
INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY
THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW
CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE
KILLED.

AN INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IS ISSUED WHEN SUSTAINED WINDS NEAR
HURRICANE FORCE...OR FREQUENT GUSTS AT OR ABOVE HURRICANE FORCE...ARE
CERTAIN WITHIN THE NEXT 12 TO 24 HOURS.

ONCE TROPICAL STORM AND HURRICANE FORCE WINDS ONSET...DO NOT VENTURE
OUTSIDE!

 

[Pogo]

Nice backtrack, shitbag.

Oh, you deny the black people of New Orleans didn't riot and loot during/after the storm? they also didn't scam the Feds when FEMA came rushing in with debit cards?

Typical liberal scum....pogo the shithead is defending Nagin, a fellow criminal scumbag.

Nobody in the world is going to "defend" Ray Nagin. His name is mud, especially in New Olreans.

What I defend is true history.
Don't like it? Tough shit, Winston Smith.

No, I know for a fact "the black people of New Orleans" didn't loot or scam FEMA. The people on your TV did that. Apparently the distinction is lost on you.

Black people "loot"; white people "find"

Tip of the Day:
Kill your television.

 

[Pogo]

It is not like they were not warned about what was about to happen.
This was the actual warning issued by the National Hurricane Center at 1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28, 2005. After reading this, Nagin did nothing to evacuate his city. He could have used those buses pictured above to remove those that did not have transportation of their own....

Oh good, here come the revisionistas again.

The warning you posted was the day before Katrina hit. By then anyone who hadn't already left was in the process, having had ample though short-notice warning. I specifically remember Nagin's evacuation orders on TV, although by then I was already packing.

As for the buses, there would not have been time one day before to round up school buses that are not under the mayor's jurisdiction anyway, plus drivers for them and execution plans, if they were even in working condition. The bureaucracy involved FEMA, the mayor's office and the New Orleans School Board. A bureaucratic morass that doesn't lend itself to spontaneity.

I mean it's fun what you can do opportunistically with Google Images and all, but the reality is never quite that simple.

 

[depotoo]

Only idiots live in a city that lies below sea level. Only idiots think (?) that it is feasible forever. Only idiots support the false notion that levies would forever stand up to a hurricane like Katrina.

All the residents of New Orleans who love living below sea level should move to Death Valley or to the shores of the Salton See.

After the well deserved imprisonment of the racist thug and thief, Nagin, of course.

I hope you realize that millions of American's all over the country live in areas protected by levees, not just in New Orleans. From the Sacramento Valley of California to south Florida and in states up and down the Mississippi, Ohio and Missouri river basins, the risk of catastrophic flooding from a levee failure are just as great, or greater, than in New Orleans.

Are the ALL idiots?

Not to mention other large cities with significant areas below sea level like, oh, New York... Miami...

pogo, you are wrong. Miami is 7 ft above sea level, and in some places 35 ft. above sea level. New York City is from 7 ft. to 25 ft. above sea level.
List of places on land with elevations below sea level - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[depotoo]

It is not like they were not warned about what was about to happen.
This was the actual warning issued by the National Hurricane Center at 1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28, 2005. After reading this, Nagin did nothing to evacuate his city. He could have used those buses pictured above to remove those that did not have transportation of their own....

Oh good, here come the revisionistas again.

The warning you posted was the day before Katrina hit. By then anyone who hadn't already left was in the process, having had ample though short-notice warning. I specifically remember Nagin's evacuation orders on TV, although by then I was already packing.

As for the buses, there would not have been time one day before to round up school buses that are not under the mayor's jurisdiction anyway, plus drivers for them and execution plans, if they were even in working condition. The bureaucracy involved FEMA, the mayor's office and the New Orleans School Board. A bureaucratic morass that doesn't lend itself to spontaneity.

I mean it's fun what you can do opportunistically with Google Images and all, but the reality is never quite that simple.

you do know they were supposed to have a working plan for just such an occassion? It wasn't like they weren't aware there were many that would not have transportation. Nagin failed. Plain and simple.

 

[Pogo]

Yep...it isn't Nagin's fault a hurricane hit New Orleans and his city wasn't prepared.......that be Buuuuuuuuuuuush's fault. George W Bush is supposed to make sure New Orleans was ready for a hurricane hitting it, not the mayor of New Orleans....he is too busy robbing people to do his own job.

Actually that wasn't Buuuuuuuuuuuush's fault; it was the "gross incompetence" of the Army Corps of Engineeeeeeeeeeeeers, which left the levee system in a "profoundly inadequate" condition.

That's not my opinion; it's the U.S. District Court's.

 

[Pogo]

I hope you realize that millions of American's all over the country live in areas protected by levees, not just in New Orleans. From the Sacramento Valley of California to south Florida and in states up and down the Mississippi, Ohio and Missouri river basins, the risk of catastrophic flooding from a levee failure are just as great, or greater, than in New Orleans.

Are the ALL idiots?

Not to mention other large cities with significant areas below sea level like, oh, New York... Miami...

pogo, you are wrong. Miami is 7 ft above sea level, and in some places 35 ft. above sea level. New York City is from 7 ft. to 25 ft. above sea level.
List of places on land with elevations below sea level - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah, no shit.
Same is true in New Orleans; elevations vary. But I wasn't the one who described any of these as "a city below sea level". See the term significant areas?

 

[Pogo]

It is not like they were not warned about what was about to happen.
This was the actual warning issued by the National Hurricane Center at 1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28, 2005. After reading this, Nagin did nothing to evacuate his city. He could have used those buses pictured above to remove those that did not have transportation of their own....

Oh good, here come the revisionistas again.

The warning you posted was the day before Katrina hit. By then anyone who hadn't already left was in the process, having had ample though short-notice warning. I specifically remember Nagin's evacuation orders on TV, although by then I was already packing.

As for the buses, there would not have been time one day before to round up school buses that are not under the mayor's jurisdiction anyway, plus drivers for them and execution plans, if they were even in working condition. The bureaucracy involved FEMA, the mayor's office and the New Orleans School Board. A bureaucratic morass that doesn't lend itself to spontaneity.

I mean it's fun what you can do opportunistically with Google Images and all, but the reality is never quite that simple.

you do know they were supposed to have a working plan for just such an occassion? It wasn't like they weren't aware there were many that would not have transportation. Nagin failed. Plain and simple.

Nagin failed in a million ways, before and after Katrina. But no, it isn't that simple. See post 67.

As I said it's always convenient to find one guy, one party, one ideology, and pin everything on them. Real life is just more complex than that.

 

[Desperado]

It is not like they were not warned about what was about to happen.
This was the actual warning issued by the National Hurricane Center at 1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28, 2005. After reading this, Nagin did nothing to evacuate his city. He could have used those buses pictured above to remove those that did not have transportation of their own....

Oh good, here come the revisionistas again.

The warning you posted was the day before Katrina hit. By then anyone who hadn't already left was in the process, having had ample though short-notice warning. I specifically remember Nagin's evacuation orders on TV, although by then I was already packing.

As for the buses, there would not have been time one day before to round up school buses that are not under the mayor's jurisdiction anyway, plus drivers for them and execution plans, if they were even in working condition. The bureaucracy involved FEMA, the mayor's office and the New Orleans School Board. A bureaucratic morass that doesn't lend itself to spontaneity.

I mean it's fun what you can do opportunistically with Google Images and all, but the reality is never quite that simple.

it's not like that was the only warning they were given, I just remember that warning as one of the gravest warnings I had ever seen. When you live in a city that is below sea level as New Orleans is, you should have your escape routes planned well ahead of time no matter how rich or poor you are. Nagin should have had evacuation plans in place well ahead of time for a worse case scenario. Nobody to blame except for local government.

 

[Pogo]

It is not like they were not warned about what was about to happen.
This was the actual warning issued by the National Hurricane Center at 1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28, 2005. After reading this, Nagin did nothing to evacuate his city. He could have used those buses pictured above to remove those that did not have transportation of their own....

Oh good, here come the revisionistas again.

The warning you posted was the day before Katrina hit. By then anyone who hadn't already left was in the process, having had ample though short-notice warning. I specifically remember Nagin's evacuation orders on TV, although by then I was already packing.

As for the buses, there would not have been time one day before to round up school buses that are not under the mayor's jurisdiction anyway, plus drivers for them and execution plans, if they were even in working condition. The bureaucracy involved FEMA, the mayor's office and the New Orleans School Board. A bureaucratic morass that doesn't lend itself to spontaneity.

I mean it's fun what you can do opportunistically with Google Images and all, but the reality is never quite that simple.

it's not like that was the only warning they were given, I just remember that warning as one of the gravest warnings I had ever seen. When you live in a city that is below sea level as New Orleans is, you should have your escape routes planned well ahead of time no matter how rich or poor you are. Nagin should have had evacuation plans in place well ahead of time for a worse case scenario. Nobody to blame except for local government.

Please. New Orleanians evacuate regularly. It's nothing new. If evacuation was not taking place, then I have to wonder where those millions of cars I sat in the middle of on a contraflowed I-10 were going. Perhaps there was a sale at Wal-Mart?

What sets Katrina apart, without which she would have been one more obscure hurricane whose details we'd have to look up, was the flooding after the storm-- not the storm itself. And for that, as I've already pointed out (post 74), we have the Army Corps of Engineers to thank. Unfortunately the Army Corps doesn't have a "D" or an "R" after its name, so that apparently makes it immune.

 

[Desperado]

What sets Katrina apart, without which she would have been one more obscure hurricane whose details we'd have to look up, was the flooding after the storm-- not the storm itself. And for that, as I've already pointed out (post 74), we have the Army Corps of Engineers to thank. Unfortunately the Army Corps doesn't have a "D" or an "R" after its name, so that apparently makes it immune.

Very True by the time Katrina got to New Orleans it was maybe a Cat 2 storm.
And you are right it was the flooding after the storm caused by the levee failure.
However, not all the blame can be placed on the Army Corps of Engineers. I believe
there is an oversight committee that also has to share the burden of blame.

 

[Pogo]

What sets Katrina apart, without which she would have been one more obscure hurricane whose details we'd have to look up, was the flooding after the storm-- not the storm itself. And for that, as I've already pointed out (post 74), we have the Army Corps of Engineers to thank. Unfortunately the Army Corps doesn't have a "D" or an "R" after its name, so that apparently makes it immune.

Very True by the time Katrina got to New Orleans is was maybe a Cat 2 storm.
And you are right it was the flooding after the storm caused by the levee failure.
However, not all the blame can be placed on the Army Corps of Engineers. I believe
there is an oversight committee that also has to share the burden of blame.

I think you refer to the Orleans Levee Board -- another bureaucracy comprised of. much like the floodwaters themselves, oily corruption and putrescence. Happily that entity no longer exists.