For Vietnam Vets, an apology and thanks

[JakeStarkey]

Were some troops mistreated in some way? Yes, they were. That is for those that did the mistreating to apologize for, if they have any character at all.

You are taking this personal when you shouldn't Jen. You are trying to shoulder the "sins" of society and make some kind of atonement for that. That is not your place.

I had family in nam. I have never and would never make the kind of apology to them that you have made here. Why? Because I didn't do anything wrong to them, or any other troop at home or in country. To me, that would be arrogant and insulting to them to do so.

That is your opinion; it is in error but not immoral.

 

[Ravi]

I accept your apology.

I also accept Jane Fonda's when she came out and did the right thing.

'bones has every right to feel as she does, too, but I will let her worry about she reacts to everyone else.

Once again, thanks.

Thank YOU Jake, really, I wish we had the sense to say so back then.

I, saying this kindly but firmly,m am not part of "we". I was getting spit at it. 'bones, it really, really happened, and it really, really happened a lot.

I am very glad that Jen T and Jane F and the others who have apologized have done so.

Who spit on you and where did this happen?

 

[JakeStarkey]

From: Drooling on VietNam Vets Jack Scaefer

3) the press keeps the story in play by uncritically repeating it, as the Times and U.S. News did; and

If there was no story, how did the Times and U.S. News keep repeating it?

It happened to me and I saw it happen to others and I had dozens of fellow soldiers tell me that it happened to them.

Anybody who denies that this happened, happened quite a bit, is either ignorant of the history, mentally feeble, or morally malignant. No other possible explanation exists for denials of historical events.

 

[JenT]

In defense of those denying it, maybe it's because you weren't in California, maybe it's because you weren't born yet, maybe it's because you're so naive about how America's presence in the world keeps so many evil dictators pause to expand. Maybe you're too busy blaming America and looking to find fault with us because you lived a spoiled life compared to other countries and can't handle the guilt so you tear down the nation that has helped so many others worldwide.

I don't know. It's small consolation to know maybe America will be appreciated after we're gone.

 

[Ravi]

You're the one that is blaming America, Jen. You're making something up. Where are those pictures?

I seriously doubt many Vets walked around in uniform and got spit on. No, scratch that, I simply do not believe it.

Now if you want to tell me that various National Guardsmen got spit on I could believe that easily.

 

[strollingbones]

if 1/3 rd of the people who claimed to serve in vietnam on the net were actually there ....it would have gutted the us of all the men during that period.....

the claims of being spit on....are way overstated...you must rememeber this is the 60's and 70's spitting on people was not common place anywhere.....and again....i dont see soldiers walking in shame and being spit on without action...

 

[rightwinger]

I accept your apology.

I also accept Jane Fonda's when she came out and did the right thing.

'bones has every right to feel as she does, too, but I will let her worry about she reacts to everyone else.

Once again, thanks.

Thank YOU Jake, really, I wish we had the sense to say so back then.

I, saying this kindly but firmly,m am not part of "we". I was getting spit at it. 'bones, it really, really happened, and it really, really happened a lot.

I am very glad that Jen T and Jane F and the others who have apologized have done so.

Jake

Sorry to hear you were spit on. Can you provide details? Who spit on you? Where did it happen? Were you in uniform? How did you respond? Why didn't you beat the crap out of them?

 

[JakeStarkey]

if 1/3 rd of the people who claimed to serve in vietnam on the net were actually there ....it would have gutted the us of all the men during that period.....

the claims of being spit on....are way overstated...you must rememeber this is the 60's and 70's spitting on people was not common place anywhere.....and again....i dont see soldiers walking in shame and being spit on without action...

'bones, go to the first hand sources that you know from that era, the soliders and sailors and Marines and airmen and women who served way back then, tell them what you have stated here, and they will shake their collective head and say, "Well, well, you are a little hippy, aren't you?"

Jen and you others who were there and who survived an era that the little ones born after 1970s have literally no conception about, we all all know and the rest who don't want to believe simply don't count.

 

[rightwinger]

if 1/3 rd of the people who claimed to serve in vietnam on the net were actually there ....it would have gutted the us of all the men during that period.....

the claims of being spit on....are way overstated...you must rememeber this is the 60's and 70's spitting on people was not common place anywhere.....and again....i dont see soldiers walking in shame and being spit on without action...

'bones, go to the first hand sources that you know from that era, the soliders and sailors and Marines and airmen and women who served way back then, tell them what you have stated here, and they will shake their collective head and say, "Well, well, you are a little hippy, aren't you?"

Jen and you others who were there and who survived an era that the little ones born after 1970s have literally no conception about, we all all know and the rest who don't want to believe simply don't count.

Jake
Could you enlighten us with your experience of having people spit on you? What was your service in Viet Nam? When and where were you spat at? Why did you just take it?

Also, I am having a problem finding a link from the 60's and early 70s that report soldiers being spat at. I see alot of stuff from ten years after from soldiers who say it happened but nothing during that era. I would appreciate any info you could provide

 

[JakeStarkey]

Those of you who have no personal memories of those years and that era cannot envison, in my opinion, how divided Americans were as a country. As the fury of the town hall meetings compare to those who were alive as teenagers and adults and their feelings pro and con about the war, so is a camp fire to a raging forest fire. None of you who did not experience that era have any concept of what Americans did to each other.

rightwinger, the details of my personal expeerince will remain private to me, not wishing to cast the intimate events of that incident as pearls before swine.

 

[rightwinger]

Jake
The Viet Nam vets I knew would have beat the shit out of anyone who dared spit on them. What was your reaction?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jake
The Viet Nam vets I knew would have beat the shit out of anyone who dared spit on them. What was your reaction?

My personal incident is closed to you other than what I have shared.

 

[rightwinger]

Jake
The Viet Nam vets I knew would have beat the shit out of anyone who dared spit on them. What was your reaction?

My personal incident is closed to you other than what I have shared.

OK

So I'll take that as a "Didn't Happen"
My memories of that time was that Viet Vets were taken back into their community and were well received. We had parties welcoming them back and they went back to college or rejoined the workforce. I don't remember a single vet from that timeperiod claiming that hippies spat at them.
Viet Nam Vets were respected. Hippies were not. It was the Hippies who were ridiculed and spat at. A store owner or bar tender would welcome a vet while refusing service to a long haired, dirty hippie.
Viet Nam vets never got a parade to honor their service. Mostly, they were just regular boys who slipped back into society, got married and raised kids.
That image has been revised to make the Viet Nam Vet a bitter, drug addicted, suicidal outcast who was defiled, spit at and ostracised by society.
Like I said........"Didn't Happen"

 

[JakeStarkey]

I knew you were trolling, right winger, from your first post, and that's OK. Believe as you wish. And I am glad the vets were treated that way in your experience if they were. But, podjo, that certainly wasn't the only experience or the majority experience. And, yes, a lot of hippies were treated as you described, particularly in the old South. That was the point of the film, "Easy Rider". But if you believe your experience was the only one or the majority one, well, Jesus bless you, that's OK.

But, just a thought here, for you and SB and other doubters -- go to the soup kitchen this Saturday and talk to the homeless. Find the vets. Ask them.

 

[OLJinhoist]

It happened and all your bullshitting will not change it. To those of us that it happened to we could give a shit less what doubters think .
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When you encounter a service person in public and wish to thank them for their service, Place your right hand across heart palm towards heart,now extend elbow to bring forearm to the horizontal position palm up.
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Jen I thank you, but those who did this owe the apology.

 

[rightwinger]

I knew you were trolling, right winger, from your first post, and that's OK. Believe as you wish. And I am glad the vets were treated that way in your experience if they were. But, podjo, that certainly wasn't the only experience or the majority experience. And, yes, a lot of hippies were treated as you described, particularly in the old South. That was the point of the film, "Easy Rider". But if you believe your experience was the only one or the majority one, well, Jesus bless you, that's OK.

But, just a thought here, for you and SB and other doubters -- go to the soup kitchen this Saturday and talk to the homeless. Find the vets. Ask them.[/QUOTE]

The old "Viet Nam vet as victim" whine. Viet Nam vets aren't happy unless everyone admits that they don't love them, they were victims, tragic homeless and outcasts. That is why they still cling to the "we were all spat on when we returned" myth
Fact is most vets were well treated when they returned and became productive citizens. There is no shame in that.

 

[JenT]

Ravi, rightwinger, strollingbones, I am so embarrassed for you. I can't believe you don't comprehend how disgusting your posts are.

Jake, as I read this thread, thank you SO MUCH for not playing into their garbage. You guys don't deserve an answer from one of our military, you don't deserve anything. Wait, I take that back, you should have been spanked a lot harder when you were young, your lack of appreciation for the sacrifices that were made for you has really lowered my opinion of libs below where it already was. I suspect your whole angle is you want to continue to demonize our military today so you can get your completely naive and idiotic anti-war chants to continue. You think the world would be all sweet if Obama and our nation would just compromise our freedom away? You have no clue about the reality of people and greed and the mindset that actually gets a hard on out of watching people be tortured and suffer.

Our guys go over there, some of them have been captured, some of them have been beheaded, and for what? So you can sit around and claim you know something that you clearly don't.

You probably think you could reason with the likes of Arafat. Did you know that he used to twist the heads off of kittens in front of kindergarten classes just to toughen up the kids? That's the kind of people that are out there in the world, that's the kind of twisted perverted, too gross to be reported evils out there that our bravest are out battling while we sit in our comfortable lazychairs watching "American Idol" while you criticize those who fought for your freedom. You sicken me.

I hope no one offers you any proof at all. You don't deserve it. You've thrown your own kind of mud just now, and I"m ashamed of you. I'm ashamed to call you an American.

 

[del]

Ravi, rightwinger, strollingbones, I am so embarrassed for you. I can't believe you don't comprehend how disgusting your posts are.

Jake, as I read this thread, thank you SO MUCH for not playing into their garbage. You guys don't deserve an answer from one of our military, you don't deserve anything. Wait, I take that back, you should have been spanked a lot harder when you were young, your lack of appreciation for the sacrifices that were made for you has really lowered my opinion of libs below where it already was. I suspect your whole angle is you want to continue to demonize our military today so you can get your completely naive and idiotic anti-war chants to continue. You think the world would be all sweet if Obama and our nation would just compromise our freedom away? You have no clue about the reality of people and greed and the mindset that actually gets a hard on out of watching people be tortured and suffer.

Our guys go over there, some of them have been captured, some of them have been beheaded, and for what? So you can sit around and claim you know something that you clearly don't.

You probably think you could reason with the likes of Arafat. Did you know that he used to twist the heads off of kittens in front of kindergarten classes just to toughen up the kids? That's the kind of people that are out there in the world, that's the kind of twisted perverted, too gross to be reported evils out there that our bravest are out battling while we sit in our comfortable lazychairs watching "American Idol" while you criticize those who fought for your freedom. You sicken me.

I hope no one offers you any proof at all. You don't deserve it. You've thrown your own kind of mud just now, and I"m ashamed of you. I'm ashamed to call you an American.

i'm ashamed to call you human, so i guess it all evens out.

 

[JakeStarkey]

JenT, if they are linking a false revision of history so they can smash on Bush and the neo-cons, they are immoral. The neo-cons and Bush have done plentry wrong without falsifying history. Rightwinger would have been born a little more than 50 years ago if I am right, and if so, then he is lying right through his teeth.

The others are younger brats who don't know their manners or American history, for that matter. What they are doing is reminding me of how the Soviets rewrote history. I know our whacko far right wingers are tying to do that and failing. thank heavens. Shame on anyone who cannot be fair and objective to the dead and living of the past.

Gays and gals from the Vietnam period who served, I salute you. Those of the left who acted poorly toward the service members of that time, you are flatly not the caliber of JenT or JaneF. So folks like 'sbones and the other stones simply don't count on this topic.

 

[Diuretic]

So, apart from the spitting on one hand and the fawning adulation on the other, how were Vietnam vets treated by their government when they returned? I would like to think they were treated well and not subjected to the sort of shite the Brits are giving their military personnel at the moment.