For Vietnam Vets, an apology and thanks

[JenT]

Plagiarism is a no no, Jen. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Also, the post you pretended as yours is full of errors.

If you want to apologize to vets, go right ahead. Don't apologize on behalf of anyone else.

How can my post be full of errors, it's all opinion. I quoted Patrick O'Hannigan, a journalist that wrote me after I posted what I wrote on my website. What is the matter with you Ravi? If anybody should be ashamed, it's not me, it's not the vets, it's anybody who tries to rewrite history.

And if you're going to accuse me of plagerism, you should post where you found it anywhere else. I'm curious to see if someone plagerized me.

 

[JenT]

Plagiarism is a no no, Jen. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Also, the post you pretended as yours is full of errors.

If you want to apologize to vets, go right ahead. Don't apologize on behalf of anyone else.

Here I thought I was the only person that noticed that....

Did you?

Or did you just neg rep and pile on without looking?

The only other place I could find what I wrote was at my own website. If you notice at the end it says "-Jen" That would be me.

Maybe you should research a little more before you go attacking.

 

[JenT]

Most of the shit I got wasn't from anti-war protestors.

It was from peckerheaded WWII and Korean Vets.

But to be fair, most of the aforementioned who gave us shit were barstool heros, too.

Mostly we're weren't treated badly when we got home, we were just ignored to death.

and we shouldn't have been silent. Thank you so much, editec

 

[JenT]

The military are always going to be pawns. The military is a political tool. Decisions about use should be based on objective considerations and not emotion. The fact is that war is a risky business, people get killed. People who volunteer for military service know that they're entering a risky business and accept it, conscripts are forced into it. Pawns all, always.

I don't look for anyone to give me any thanks. I'm happy as hell to be home and in one piece. I get to grow old with my wife. But whenever someone does thank me for my service, I'm grateful and humbled because I see it as nothing more than just doing my job. But it feels good to be appreciated.

I don't disagree with you that the military is a political pawn of those in power. I see that as a reality. Clauswitz said it many years ago, "war is a continuation of politics by other means."

Our pawns really kick ass, though.

It was a lot more than just doing your job to me, Toome, and I know you didn't do it for thanks but thank you just the same. I appreciate that I grew up in a country that was free. The more I study other cultures the more I appreciate it, all the time. God bless you.

 

[JenT]

Thanking losers is not the American way.

Electing them is a different story.

Don't know what you mean by losers. If you bother to do some research, you'll find that the American military won every single decisive battle in that shithole. Even the Tet Offensive, which liberals paint as a humiliating defeat for US forces was, in reality, a military disaster for the North Vietnamese. The Viet Cong were eliminated in short order. This one was lost by the politicians because they lacked the will to go for the kill. Instead, they prolonged the war.

There are a lot of valuable lessons-learned from Vietnam. Had we, as a nation, embraced those lessons rather than try to bury our experience there in shame, then perhaps we wouldn't have gotten into the mess we're currently in at Iraq and Afghanistan.

To those who've been there, done that: welcome home, brothers

RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr9Zb3sTfYg]YouTube - the gratitude campaign (short)[/ame]

 

[JenT]

Ravi, should the following be MY new sig line? Because yours is looking hypocritical

Xsited to Ravi -
"I don't mind people with strong opinions unless they make a habit of mischaracterizing people and/or it's obvious they consistently lie."

Ravi - "Plagiarism is a no no, Jen. You should be ashamed of yourself."

Jen to Xsited - "he is definately being consistent."

 

[Gunny]

please provide links to all these stories about americans spitting on and throwing blood on vietnam vets...cause most of that is simply bullshit....i welcomed home a soldier from two tours....and he is not the only one.....my friends did tours etc...i never remember anyone spitting or saying anything to them....this is one of the vietnam myths....please provide proof of what you have posted...

do you feel this way about vets from the uss liberty? they were called liars etc...do you speak up for them too?

No links required. The footage has been shown on the tube enough that it is common knowledge; whether, you wish to live in denial or not.

North Carolina is a LONG way from the Left Coast, bones ...

 

[Ralph]

please provide links to all these stories about americans spitting on and throwing blood on vietnam vets...cause most of that is simply bullshit....i welcomed home a soldier from two tours....and he is not the only one.....my friends did tours etc...i never remember anyone spitting or saying anything to them....this is one of the vietnam myths....please provide proof of what you have posted...

do you feel this way about vets from the uss liberty? they were called liars etc...do you speak up for them too?

What idiocy. There are hundreds of documented examples of disrespect that some sections of our society have for our military, and there have been from the time this nation was founded. And certainly there are examples of such in the history of this "police action" that was never formerly declared a war......but the majority of the Spitting that came from society was when one was attempting to morph back into society, not while wearing a uniform, as I was so ashamed of, my uniform, my hair, my personal habits or anything that reminded me directly of what I just survived that I practically hid from society........AND SLEEP, for the 1st decade that I was home, I allowed my hair to grow to my tail. It was not the spiting on the face the majority of us vets resented.......its was the simple, Welcome Home son......and a friendly pat on the back..WELL DONE, but this is not what happened. We were blamed for the decisions that were made by politicians. And now the same type of politicians are symbolically spitting on us again.

We were looked upon as worthless losers not being worthy of even addressing....might less spitting on. Instead of days or months to adapt back into society......it took years. We...the soldier had no problem with what we did. We did nothing that our fathers or their fathers had not done before us......the problem was with society and the indoctrination that had taken place.........No one in America likes a loser...as the majority of our great liberal friends are BAND WAGON jumpers that enjoy the false accolade of their comrades more than they do the truth. Which they never where polite enough to even ask us about.........no testimony from the people that actually had their ass in grass, so they the accolade seekers could enjoy their wagon ride.

No we did not fight for AMERICA.....our societal friends made sure we new that as we were reminded on a daily basis......we fought for EACH OTHER...one another, not for fame or glory...or even respect, but simple survival....WE SIMPLY wanted to make it home to our family...to our real lives, to simply wake up from this nightmare, which is exactly the way that I remember it. A bad dream that MUST, for sanities sake, be pushed back into a corner of ones mind, that on occasion jumps back into the conscious like a bolt of lightening......it might take something so simple as smelling diesel fuel, or just looking into the face of a child. You live in fear of that nightmare surfacing..never knowing when or where. The longer removed the better it was for me.......but some have NEVER AWAKENED, or some simply could not stop the faces from showing up.......and took the easy way out. They died, ashamed, and feeling just like what they were constantly told they were......WORTHLESS LOSERS.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Whether drafted or enlisted, once you are in then you are subject to the UCMJ.

So, yes, all military are pawns. That is just a fact. Dad and I were talking the other night (now he was real war hero, I just did my duty), and he reminded me that old men send young men out to die. It's always been that way, and it always will be. Bush didn't really understand that; Cheney did, but did not care.

To all of you Americans who have served anywhere and everywhere, subject to the good and to the bad, congrats that you are home with your families. And let's get those VA facilities fixed, although I will admit mine is outstanding along with the customer service there.

 

[Luissa]

please provide links to all these stories about americans spitting on and throwing blood on vietnam vets...cause most of that is simply bullshit....i welcomed home a soldier from two tours....and he is not the only one.....my friends did tours etc...i never remember anyone spitting or saying anything to them....this is one of the vietnam myths....please provide proof of what you have posted...

do you feel this way about vets from the uss liberty? they were called liars etc...do you speak up for them too?

No links required. The footage has been shown on the tube enough that it is common knowledge; whether, you wish to live in denial or not.

North Carolina is a LONG way from the Left Coast, bones ...

the shit still happens today.
My ex boyfriend was coming home from Korea after the Irag war started and he was laid over in Salt Lake City and some women spit on him.

 

[Luissa]

As our nation cheers and applauds the homecoming of our troops these days, I'd like to say out loud what I know is felt by many Americans...

We are so very sorry, Vietnam Vets.

Although today's troops deserve our grateful support, it's obvious that America is being especially careful not to repeat our shameful past of blaming our troops, to support them and welcome them home, regardless of what we feel about politics.

I believe that we often add an extra spoonful of gratitude today because of our guilt over our treatment of the Vietnam vets and their homecoming. And I have to wonder, as the Vietnam vets watch the parades over today's heroes, do they recognize that part of it is meant for them? Sadly, I don't think so.

I remember the days of the Vietnam war, and the pictures I saw of the spitting on our soldiers at their homecoming, blood throwing, the protests, anger and hostility. I was just a kid, I didn't know any vets, but I remember thinking the treatment was just as my thoughts went along with the crowd, and for that, with all my heart, dear Viet Nam vets, I apologize.

Your sacrifices are so very appreciated, the wounds you continue to carry physically and in your hearts and your minds, are not forgotten. Every time I realize I am talking with a Vietnam vet, I have such a desire to hug you with sincere gratitude, but I never do, because I am certain it would be misunderstood.

Vietnam vets don't like to talk about the war, or dwell upon it. It's rare that the identity is even disclosed, and once it is, that haunted look of steel comes over a Vietnam vet's face as memories flood their thoughts, and I know they want to drop the subject immediately.

So I stand there, searching for words to change the subject, wishing I could express my gratitude but not knowing how.

I believe much of America feels the same way. And when our troops come home from Iraq or Afghanistan or the Gulf, we clap a little louder, we cheer a little longer, and we throw larger parties.

But Vietnam Vets, please know that at the same time, so many of us are cheering you too. We gasp as the media reports our troops are worried they will be treated as you were. We are stabbed with guilt at the thought...and like most spoiled children, many of us quickly dismiss it, we don't like to admit guilt. So we exuberantly express it where we can, today, with our troops coming home, and hope that makes up for it. And it doesn't.

But make no mistake, we cheer for you too. And we grieve our past mistakes.

So as you watch the troops of today flooded with praise and glorious homecomings, and you feel a pang of hurt and anger as you remember your fallen friends, the horrors of war you went through, the sacrifices you made for us, to come home and be torn apart by us...all I can say is, please forgive us. I, for one, was an idiot. We all were. And we wish so much that we could find a way to express our gratitude. We can't undo the past, we can only ask for your forgiveness, I pray that you can.

I have looked for an organization to donate to, in expression of gratitude. The best I could find was Closer Walk Ministries, but how can they or any organization even attempt to undo the damage we have done, reach all Vietnam Vets and express our gratitude? America, I think we missed our chance.

You are heroes in my eyes. And when you hear the cheering of our troops today, please please know that many of us have you on our hearts, minds and prayers as well. God bless you. ~jen

From Patrick O'Hannigan: ~ This is a story about a Viet Nam vet and Ann Margaret as told by the vet's wife:

Richard, (my husband), never really talked a lot about his time in Viet Nam other than he had been shot by a sniper. However, he had a rather grainy, 8 x 10 black and white photo he had taken at a USO show of Ann Margaret with Bob Hope in the background that was one of his treasures.

A few years ago, Ann Margaret was doing a book signing at a local bookstore. Richard wanted to see if he could get her to sign the treasured photo so he
arrived at the bookstore at 12 o'clock for the 7:30 signing.

When I got there after work, the line went all the way around the bookstore, circled the parking lot and disappeared behind a parking garage. Before her appearance, bookstore employees announced that she would sign only her book and no memorabilia would be permitted.

Richard was disappointed, but wanted to show her the photo and let her know how much those shows meant to lonely GI's so far from home. Ann Margaret came out looking as beautiful as ever and, as second in line, it was soon Richard's turn.

He presented the book for her signature and then took out the photo. When he did, there were many shouts from the employees that she would not sign
it. Richard said, "I understand. I just wanted her to see it."

She took one look at the photo, tears welled up in her eyes and she said, "This is one of my gentlemen from Viet Nam and I most certainly will sign his photo. I know what these men did for their country and I always have time for 'my gentlemen.'"

With that, she pulled Richard across the table and planted a big kiss on him. She then made quite a to-do about the bravery of the young men she met
over the years, how much she admired them, and how much she appreciated them. There weren't too many dry eyes among those close enough to hear.
She then posed for pictures and acted as if he was the only one there.

Later at dinner, Richard was very quiet. When I asked if he'd like to talk about it, my big strong husband broke down in tears."That's the first time
anyone ever thanked me for my time in the Army," he said.

That night was a turning point for him. He walked a little straighter and, for the first time in years, was proud to have been a Vet. I'll never forget Ann Margaret for her graciousness and how much that small act of kindness meant to my husband.

I now make it a point to say "Thank you" to every person I come across who served in our Armed Forces. Freedom does not come cheap and I am grateful for all those who have served their country.

good post!

 

[Diuretic]

The military are always going to be pawns. The military is a political tool. Decisions about use should be based on objective considerations and not emotion. The fact is that war is a risky business, people get killed. People who volunteer for military service know that they're entering a risky business and accept it, conscripts are forced into it. Pawns all, always.

I don't look for anyone to give me any thanks. I'm happy as hell to be home and in one piece. I get to grow old with my wife. But whenever someone does thank me for my service, I'm grateful and humbled because I see it as nothing more than just doing my job. But it feels good to be appreciated.

I don't disagree with you that the military is a political pawn of those in power. I see that as a reality. Clauswitz said it many years ago, "war is a continuation of politics by other means."

Our pawns really kick ass, though.

Pawns around the world kick arse indeed. Yours included.

 

[Diuretic]

The military are always going to be pawns. The military is a political tool. Decisions about use should be based on objective considerations and not emotion. The fact is that war is a risky business, people get killed. People who volunteer for military service know that they're entering a risky business and accept it, conscripts are forced into it. Pawns all, always.

And you wrote that from the comfort of your home, sitting at a desk behind your computer while our military is out there making their presence known so that you can have that comfort.

Did you serve in the military? I hope so. Because if you didn't, and wrote what you just wrote...

No I have never served in the military.

Yes I wrote this at home.

The military is out there doing the job for which it is employed.

Volunteers all.

Which brings me to think - what's your point?

 

[strollingbones]

look jen i have no clue how old you are...but i grew up with vietnam....i was at many times places where vietnam vets were returning...matter of fact the last large group of mia/pows came to bragg

another thing before you accuse me of liberal spin you best know what the fuck you are talking about...as for what i know...i know what i lived...you know what you barely can read but seem to be able to copy and paste....

gunny how many times do you think someone got spit on? jen acts like it was ever damn vietnam vet who came home...it was not....it was the rare exception that people were treated like this...its sad that men who didnt serve claim to be vets etc...what is even sadder is the stupid ass spin being put on this by some dumbass rah rah chick (yes jen i mean you) and everyone is just buying into it...i am sorry where i was...men and women were treated with respect and honor...i dont need anyone saying they are sorry for the way i treated anyone...

 

[JenT]

look jen i have no clue how old you are...but i grew up with vietnam....i was at many times places where vietnam vets were returning...matter of fact the last large group of mia/pows came to bragg

another thing before you accuse me of liberal spin you best know what the fuck you are talking about...as for what i know...i know what i lived...you know what you barely can read but seem to be able to copy and paste....

gunny how many times do you think someone got spit on? jen acts like it was ever damn vietnam vet who came home...it was not....it was the rare exception that people were treated like this...its sad that men who didnt serve claim to be vets etc...what is even sadder is the stupid ass spin being put on this by some dumbass rah rah chick (yes jen i mean you) and everyone is just buying into it...i am sorry where i was...men and women were treated with respect and honor...i dont need anyone saying they are sorry for the way i treated anyone...

strollingbones, I was one of MANY in California, and all those who aggressively dissed our troops coming home, THOSE are the ones I'm apologizing for. Something that has been LONG overdue. Something that a LOT of people agreed with when I put it on my website, and wrote about it.

If you're not one of those, fine, I think you made that point. Good for you. But I also know what I saw and heard and it was NOT welcoming. The "FEW" that got spit on were ALL ONE TOO MANY, and when one was spit on, they all were. And the picture I remember, I think it was Life Magazine, had a BUCKET OF MUD involved.

And do you think for one second that it was a welcome home parade and oh, ONE person decided to spit? The spitting was the percolation of the sentiment that was going on. And it was disgusting. Go ahead and defend it. I know what it was. I didn't spit on anybody but I thought they were right at the time because i was so young. So I felt a need to write an apology. TOO BAD if you don't like the font space I took up doing it.

It was SHAMEFUL how our men were treated coming home and in my opinion, it's SHAMEFUL that people are trying to rewrite those times, deny it, and refuse to apologize for it.

And as for people buying into anything that I write, look again, I got PLENTY of garbage from many here just because I'm the one that wrote it. I think anyone that has the nerve to agree with anything that I write is doing so in spite of the backlash that they'd get because they agreed with me.

Funny you would call me a "rah-rah" chick, because that's exactly what I wish I had been, and what those men deserved.

 

[strollingbones]

so you are ashamed of how you behaved...then you be sorry for yourself....i did nothing to be ashamed of and i refuse to listen to your bullshit....the rah rah was very sarcastic....i bet you didnt even feel your hair move..

 

[JenT]

another thing before you accuse me of liberal spin you best know what the fuck you are talking about...as for what i know...i know what i lived...you know what you barely can read but seem to be able to copy and paste....

If you're still referring to Dis and Ravi accusing and neg repping me because of plagerizing, you must have missed the posts where I explained, I WROTE the original article. It's not my fault you guys are so fast to accuse you can't read who the freaking author was in the first place.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Jen,
You can't offer an apology for the actions of other people, whom you had no control over in the first place. It is illogical to do so.

Giving thanks for sacrifice in service is apropos.

 

[JenT]

so you are ashamed of how you behaved...then you be sorry for yourself....i did nothing to be ashamed of and i refuse to listen to your bullshit....the rah rah was very sarcastic....i bet you didnt even feel your hair move..

Like I said, I got way more letters of thanks and agreement than I ever expected. Including the add on by Patrick, who wrote something along those lines himself soon after.

So you don't agree, again, fine. But society owes our men an apology and I was happy to give it.

 

[strollingbones]

another thing before you accuse me of liberal spin you best know what the fuck you are talking about...as for what i know...i know what i lived...you know what you barely can read but seem to be able to copy and paste....

If you're still referring to Dis and Ravi accusing and neg repping me because of plagerizing, you must have missed the posts where I explained, I WROTE the original article. It's not my fault you guys are so fast to accuse you can't read who the freaking author was in the first place.

unlike you..i do not speak for anyone else...nor does anyone else speak for me...i assure you i have no part in what dis and ravi did or said...nor have i negged you....you seem to like to try to smear your bullshit on as many as you can