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Jen,
You can't offer an apology for the actions of other people, whom you had no control over in the first place. It is illogical to do so.
Giving thanks for sacrifice in service is apropos.
you are so full of shit....your eyes must be brown....you do not speak for anyone but yourself.....you cannot atone for anyone but yourself...i am sorry that your actions toward the men returning has haunted you this long..perhaps gunny is right....cause other than a watermelon seed i have never seen a woman spit at anything for any reason....but your shame is yours...dont try to smear everyone esle with it to make yourself feel better how many years later???
Jen,
You can't offer an apology for the actions of other people, whom you had no control over in the first place. It is illogical to do so.
Giving thanks for sacrifice in service is apropos.
Sure I can. Because in spite of what's happening on THIS message board (which is losing respect real fast from where I sit) the majority of society agrees with me.
The only reason I can't apologize for society effectively is I'm not a big name. But for my part, I just did.
Jen,
You can't offer an apology for the actions of other people, whom you had no control over in the first place. It is illogical to do so.
Giving thanks for sacrifice in service is apropos.
Sure I can. Because in spite of what's happening on THIS message board (which is losing respect real fast from where I sit) the majority of society agrees with me.
The only reason I can't apologize for society effectively is I'm not a big name. But for my part, I just did.
You can't apologize for other people. That is often done by a lot of people today. It doesn't make it any less stupid.
You are accountable for your actions then and now. If you showed disrespect to any of the troops then, then yes, give an apology in that light. If you aren't guilty of such, then you have no reason to apologize much less any business trying to apologize for others.
To offer up an apology as you have done, even with good intentions, is to offer up a hollow and meaningless apology, in my opinion.
Were some troops mistreated in some way? Yes, they were. That is for those that did the mistreating to apologize for, if they have any character at all.
You are taking this personal when you shouldn't Jen. You are trying to shoulder the "sins" of society and make some kind of atonement for that. That is not your place.
I had family in nam. I have never and would never make the kind of apology to them that you have made here. Why? Because I didn't do anything wrong to them, or any other troop at home or in country. To me, that would be arrogant and insulting to them to do so.
you are so full of shit....your eyes must be brown....you do not speak for anyone but yourself.....you cannot atone for anyone but yourself...i am sorry that your actions toward the men returning has haunted you this long..perhaps gunny is right....cause other than a watermelon seed i have never seen a woman spit at anything for any reason....but your shame is yours...dont try to smear everyone esle with it to make yourself feel better how many years later???
no strollingbones, there is nothing about this thread that makes me feel any better. I'm pretty much shocked that people could object to an apology long overdue. It's really kind of sickening.
Were some troops mistreated in some way? Yes, they were. That is for those that did the mistreating to apologize for, if they have any character at all.
You are taking this personal when you shouldn't Jen. You are trying to shoulder the "sins" of society and make some kind of atonement for that. That is not your place.
I had family in nam. I have never and would never make the kind of apology to them that you have made here. Why? Because I didn't do anything wrong to them, or any other troop at home or in country. To me, that would be arrogant and insulting to them to do so.
And clearly I'm not apologizing for you. But because I internally and quietly agreed with those that did, I DO have the right to apologize for the faceless mobs that were there. How you can see arrogance in that is beyond me, it's hard to admit I agreed.
you are so full of shit....your eyes must be brown....you do not speak for anyone but yourself.....you cannot atone for anyone but yourself...i am sorry that your actions toward the men returning has haunted you this long..perhaps gunny is right....cause other than a watermelon seed i have never seen a woman spit at anything for any reason....but your shame is yours...dont try to smear everyone esle with it to make yourself feel better how many years later???
no strollingbones, there is nothing about this thread that makes me feel any better. I'm pretty much shocked that people could object to an apology long overdue. It's really kind of sickening.
I accept your apology.
I also accept Jane Fonda's when she came out and did the right thing.
'bones has every right to feel as she does, too, but I will let her worry about she reacts to everyone else.
Once again, thanks.
Were some troops mistreated in some way? Yes, they were. That is for those that did the mistreating to apologize for, if they have any character at all.
You are taking this personal when you shouldn't Jen. You are trying to shoulder the "sins" of society and make some kind of atonement for that. That is not your place.
I had family in nam. I have never and would never make the kind of apology to them that you have made here. Why? Because I didn't do anything wrong to them, or any other troop at home or in country. To me, that would be arrogant and insulting to them to do so.
And clearly I'm not apologizing for you. But because I internally and quietly agreed with those that did, I DO have the right to apologize for the faceless mobs that were there. How you can see arrogance in that is beyond me, it's hard to admit I agreed.
You have the right to issue a hollow apology if that is what you wish to do.
It is arrogant to not only assume you have the right to speak for your fellow Americans, it is also arrogant to assume you have a duty to speak for your fellow Americans who were out of line then.
Whether we agreed with the war or not, the brave men and women who went deserve a thank you, in my opinion.
If you have something inside yourself you need to atone for and make right, I understand that aspect. Leave the apologies for those that actually need to make them. That is how it is supposed to work.
I am not ragging on you. I understand what you are trying to do. I just think you are going about it the wrong way.
I have never apologized for something I was not responsible for in some way. I don't understand the need some people have in apologizing in that manner. It makes no sense. It is akin to admitting to a crime you did not commit, and being locked up for it. Why do that do yourself?
As our nation cheers and applauds the homecoming of our troops these days, I'd like to say out loud what I know is felt by many Americans...
We are so very sorry, Vietnam Vets.
I've never seen it. Please be kind enough to show your evidence.please provide links to all these stories about americans spitting on and throwing blood on vietnam vets...cause most of that is simply bullshit....i welcomed home a soldier from two tours....and he is not the only one.....my friends did tours etc...i never remember anyone spitting or saying anything to them....this is one of the vietnam myths....please provide proof of what you have posted...
do you feel this way about vets from the uss liberty? they were called liars etc...do you speak up for them too?
No links required. The footage has been shown on the tube enough that it is common knowledge; whether, you wish to live in denial or not.
North Carolina is a LONG way from the Left Coast, bones ...
From: Drooling on VietNam Vets Jack Scaefer
Lembcke uncovered a whole lot of spitting from the war years, but the published accounts always put the antiwar protester on the receiving side of a blast from a pro-Vietnam counterprotester. Surely, he contends, the news pages would have given equal treatment to a story about serviceman getting the treatment. Then why no stories in the newspaper morgues, he asks?
Lastly, there are the parts of the spitting story up that don't add up. Why does it always end with the protester spitting and the serviceman walking off in shame?
Most servicemen would have given the spitters a mouthful of bloody Chiclets instead of turning the other cheek like Christ.
At the very least, wouldn't the altercations have resulted in assault and battery charges and produced a paper trail retrievable across the decades?
The myth persists because: 1) Those who didn't go to Vietnam--that being most of us--don't dare contradict the "experience" of those who did; 2) the story helps maintain the perfect sense of shame many of us feel about the way we ignored our Vietvets; 3) the press keeps the story in play by uncritically repeating it, as the Times and U.S. News did; and 4) because any fool with 33 cents and the gumption to repeat the myth in his letter to the editor can keep it in circulation. Most recent mentions of the spitting protester in Nexis are of this variety.
As press crimes go, the myth of the spitting protester ain't even a misdemeanor. Reporters can't be expected to fact-check every quotation. But it does teach us a journalistic lesson: Never lend somebody a sympathetic ear just because he's sympathetic.
We knew each other better than most of our families did. Things were discussed among us that none of us would dare share with anyone else who had not endured what we endured. We comforted people who had been displaced by Abu Saif, and Communist Guerillas. We heard their stories of horror as they held a daughter captive by knife or gun and demanded a "voluntary" donation to their cause. We saw the devastation together that terror wrought upon the lives and souls of other human beings. Stories that chilled us to the core then, and still do today.
We felt the warmth of their hugs when we scared the boogie men away, and we felt their graciousness when we were bought into their homes and fed with a feast they had gathered from among the villagers as a whole because no one family could ever afford a gala like we witnessed many times. We slept in the only bed in the house because the heartfelt gratitude of those we liberated would allow nothing more than the best they had, even if it was the worst we ever had.
We saw dictators displaced where freedoms were taken away. We saw hope spring forth in hearts that never thought they would see a life worth living again in their time. We saw freedoms that some had never dreamed of being laid at the feet of the oppressed and broken hearted. And with every tittle of laughter, every tear shed from relief, we knew what we had been born for. We had a purpose that many covet and never see. We were nothing more than neighborhood kids when we left the warmth of our homes and the culture we knew to fight a battle some us never understood when we walked on strange soil and fought for those who could not fight for themselves. We were heroes to these people who never saw a television or had more to eat than they could stand. We fought to save little girls from becoming prostitutes out of survival and to open a new and wonderful world to those who lived with only violence and death.
And some of us never knew at times if we wanted to return home or not, because there we were somebody. Important, appreciated, and doted upon as real men. We knew we would not be so when we returned home, we would only be those who did not belong anymore. We have lived with violent nightmares and battled with our purposes, but the one thing that brings us back is what we did. Not only for our nation, but also for our fellow man.
Your son Cindy, he fought with honor and dignity. He fought that you and others if they so chose could protest a sitting president near his own house. He fought to protect these values against a madman who paid terrorists and funded those who desired to take this lifestyle away from us all. He took the devil from his seat and saved countless lives that Saddam would have taken as he had in the past. He fought, and if he was like my friends, he fought well. And he was honored to do so. My bet is that he died filled with a purpose he never had and with a satisfaction of life few ever know. He saw the oppressed go free. He felt the warmth of their newfound life. He saw the sparkle of hope in their eyes as they gazed at him and cried.
He enlisted for this purpose and he died for this purpose. I am sure he would prefer to be honored as a hero than to be written up in the media as a poor helpless victim of a political entity.
I am sure he walked through the Pearly Gates and heard a voice say to him Well done my good and faithful servant". Because what better love has a man than this, to give his life for another? And though you grieve, and America understands the pain and agony of a son lost, you are not alone, and through the history of this nation many mothers asked the same question. Why did their son die saving some black slaves? Why did their son die because of a war in Europe that did not concern us? Why did their son die in what their mothers considered a useless war? No war makes sense to a parent who lost their son, but at least wonder what that war meant to your son and all he stood for. He did the right thing Cindy, and if you could ask him now he would say the same thing.
He delivered the oppressed to freedom, he freed the prisoners, he brought faith and hope to those who had none. He comforted those who were hurting and he sacrificed his life to keep the freedoms you now exercise.
excerpt, Pete Fisher, Cindy Sheehan, I May Have Your Answer
no strollingbones, there is nothing about this thread that makes me feel any better. I'm pretty much shocked that people could object to an apology long overdue. It's really kind of sickening.
I accept your apology.
I also accept Jane Fonda's when she came out and did the right thing.
'bones has every right to feel as she does, too, but I will let her worry about she reacts to everyone else.
Once again, thanks.
Thank YOU Jake, really, I wish we had the sense to say so back then.
