For Those Who Want to REDUCE Unemployment, not win arguments

Which approach is more likely to win broad support?

  • Marginal wages at full-time work should be reduced to encourage new hiring.

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • Wages at lower levels of work should be increased to encourage new hiring.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Average wage rate should be higher for part-time, but lower than current for full-time work.

    Votes: 2 50.0%

  • Total voters
    4
"The first step to winning the future is encouraging American innovation." That was Barack Obama in his State of the Union address last January, when he hit the theme repeatedly, using the word innovation or innovate 11 times. And on this issue, at least, Republicans seem in sync with Obama. Listen to Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich or Mitch Daniels and the word innovation pops up again and again. Everyone wants innovation and agrees that it is the key to America's future.

Innovation is as American as apple pie. It seems to accord with so many elements of our national character — ingenuity, freedom, flexibility, the willingness to question conventional wisdom and defy authority. But politicians are pinning their hopes on innovation for more urgent reasons. America's future growth will have to come from new industries that create new products and processes. Older industries are under tremendous pressure. Technological change is making factories and offices far more efficient. The rise of low-wage manufacturing in China and low-wage services in India is moving jobs overseas. The only durable strength we have — the only one that can withstand these gale winds — is innovation.

The Future of U.S. Innovation: Can Americans Keep Pace? - TIME




Innovation?

Laugh my balls off...........

Not possible with trickle-up poverty economic policy like they have in the EU. Theres trillions of innovation sitting on the sidelines in America right now but will stay exactly there as long as we have a President who wants to confiscate wealth at every opportunity.

It doesnt work that way s0n..............
 
Thanks for the link.

"Williams offered a hypothetical example: A retired person with $10 million invested in municipal bonds paying 5% interest, or $500,000 a year.

"Because there is no limit on how much tax-exempt interest you can earn without having to pay taxes, she pays nothing to the federal government," he said.

Or it's possible that some of these tax filers have a large portfolio, and booked a lot of taxable gains in the recent run-up in stocks. But they were able to fully offset those gains with the many capital losses they realized during the financial crisis, which made even the most experienced investor want to take their marbles and go home.
"

I don't think it proved your point, but thanks for trying.

I thought it was checkmate, since you said "they aren't allowed." Yes, they are.
Interest on munis isn't a write off.
And you can't write off capital losses against income (except for $3000 per year) only against capital gains.
So if you're going to claim victory because an evil rich guy had $500,000 in capital losses 2 years ago and capital gains of $500,000 last year and paid zero taxes, go right ahead. LOL!

Try as you might, there's no denying that the tax breaks are what's contributing to breaking the Treasury. Even sane Republicans admit that.

Tax credits must be changed to lower tax rates - Apr. 26, 2011
 
Too many regulations to read?
I wonder if that might hinder growth?
You could compare the pages of regulations before Obama took office to the number now.
Of course then you'd have to subtract.
When you find the numbers, let me know if you need help with the math.

Translation: I don't know.
I know you don't know, that's why I gave you the link where you could educate yourself.
Now go forth and learn something.

You don't even get satire. Sad.

I want the Tax Code revised to treat taxpayers more fairly. What's not to get?
 
It's also a given that the top 1% never actually PAY that rate; often they have enough writeoffs to pay nothing in taxes.

sadly for you, according to IRS top 1% pay 40% of all Federal taxes but only earn 18% of all income. More importantly they are our most productive citizens, stealing from them is suicidal. Only a liberal would think stealing capital from those who know how to employ it makes sense.

God you're clueless. You honestly think some CEO earning 300 times what his employees earn give a sweet shit about them? Or you, if you happen to be one of said employees?

if I said anything about caring I'll pay you $10,000. Bet???

also, you know little so all you do is cut and paste, but this is not a cut and paste forum, it is a discussion or debate forum. You need to study up so you can participate in a discussion forum. We could all cut and paste all day long . Think!! PLease

I see. So all you do is repeat your talking points, and that passes as debate. It's really hard to "debate" people like you who only see black and white, no gray at all. I post links, because I KNOW there are people smarter than I am in this particular field who can articulate F.A.C.T.S better than I. You don't post links because you mistakenly think that YOU'RE the smartest guy in the room. Hilarious.
 
I see. So all you do is repeat your talking points,

if they are merely talking points, and not a rational political philosophy that started with Aristotle, then why not pick a substantive talking point and and show us exactly where it is mistaken.

What does your inability to do so tell you about liberalism???

Remember, liberalism is not a philosophy, it is merely a bigoted feeling of moral superiority based on your support for welfare and an IQ level that prevents you from understanding how capitalism and freedom work.
 
I thought it was checkmate, since you said "they aren't allowed." Yes, they are.
Interest on munis isn't a write off.
And you can't write off capital losses against income (except for $3000 per year) only against capital gains.
So if you're going to claim victory because an evil rich guy had $500,000 in capital losses 2 years ago and capital gains of $500,000 last year and paid zero taxes, go right ahead. LOL!

Try as you might, there's no denying that the tax breaks are what's contributing to breaking the Treasury. Even sane Republicans admit that.

Tax credits must be changed to lower tax rates - Apr. 26, 2011
Yeah, people writing off their losses, what a scandal!
So no luck with the millionaires paying no taxes meme?
 
Repeal ALL Federal Labor laws

And abolish the Dept of Labor while we're at it.
That honestly would do more for employment than anything else. If someone's best prospect is a $4/hr job today he has no choice to take it. He must be unemployed.
Labor laws make hiring a minefield for potential lawsuits, increasing costs dramatically. Cut all that and you cut the risk in hiring.
 
Repeal ALL Federal Labor laws

YES!!! Right on!!!!!!!

I was talking to someone recently about illegal immigration, I live in GA, and he was bemoaning the fact that since GA passed legislation aimed at curtailing the flow of illegal immigration the agriculture sector of GA is suffering. It has been proposed that prisoners and probationers work the fields instead of letting the free market do its job and the wages increase.

The argument against this is always that prices will increase, while simply ignoring the fact that wages will increase.

All we need is a government that will ensure that laws are followed so that the market sets the price of goods and the wages of workers.

Importing cheap exploitable workers is the opposite side of the same coin as over-reaching unions: one artificially deflates wages while the other inflates wages. Both are wrong.

It isn't the government's job to set wages.

Hmmm, union workers inflate wages? LOL! In a capitalist society how is that wrong? Are you a socialist?
 
Repeal ALL Federal Labor laws

And abolish the Dept of Labor while we're at it.
That honestly would do more for employment than anything else. If someone's best prospect is a $4/hr job today he has no choice to take it. He must be unemployed.
Labor laws make hiring a minefield for potential lawsuits, increasing costs dramatically. Cut all that and you cut the risk in hiring.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYr7yvYc4wQ]YouTube - ‪Sixteen Tons‬‏[/ame]
 
Hmmm, union workers inflate wages? LOL! In a capitalist society how is that wrong?

some ABC's for you!! UNIONS ARE NOT CAPITALIST!! THey are created by liberal government to get higher wages than the capitalist system would provide.

If the capitalist does not recognize and bargain with the union, liberals with guns show up to take him to jail. Capitalism is about peaceful voluntary relationships. Got your ABC's now?
 
Repeal ALL Federal Labor laws

YES!!! Right on!!!!!!!

I was talking to someone recently about illegal immigration, I live in GA, and he was bemoaning the fact that since GA passed legislation aimed at curtailing the flow of illegal immigration the agriculture sector of GA is suffering. It has been proposed that prisoners and probationers work the fields instead of letting the free market do its job and the wages increase.

The argument against this is always that prices will increase, while simply ignoring the fact that wages will increase.

All we need is a government that will ensure that laws are followed so that the market sets the price of goods and the wages of workers.

Importing cheap exploitable workers is the opposite side of the same coin as over-reaching unions: one artificially deflates wages while the other inflates wages. Both are wrong.

It isn't the government's job to set wages.

Hmmm, union workers inflate wages? LOL! In a capitalist society how is that wrong? Are you a socialist?

Unions are the antithesis of capitalism.

You really don't know much, do you?
 
This is not a thread for arguing which political party is correct, or for pointing out mistakes that any political commentator has made.

This is for serious discussion on reducing unemployment, for which progress has stagnated in the latest jobs report.


A previous thread suggested that companies pay people at a higher wage rate for working less, so they can hire more people to pick up the slack and reduce unemployment. This was criticized as being stupid because companies would not want to reduce their profits, despite having profits that are trillions of dollars higher than before the financial crisis: http:/krugman.blogs.nytimes。com/2011/07/02/net-lending-by-domestic-business/

Well, that's fine; if companies don't want to have an immediate drop in profits, the same thing can be done by giving full-time, permanent employees the option of working less at the same average wage they are now, and allowing companies to deduct part of the wage if they decide to continue working full time. The result is the same, people working less means more people with jobs, and wages will eventually rise back to where they were (and even higher) when companies have to raise wages to keep people from quitting for better jobs once the unemployment problem has been fixed.

Or full-time employees get a wage increase if they work less, but a wage decrease if they work full-time. If employees would prefer the first solution, and companies would prefer the second solution, this is the compromise that no one should be able to argue with.

So just an example:

Company A has three employees: Sara, Victor, and Khalifa, all of whom make $80,000 per year working 40 hours per week.

Inès is surviving on $12,000 per year from unemployment benefits.

Total work done: 120 hours per week. Cost to company: $240,000 per year. Cost to government: $12,000 per year.


**The law goes into effect**


Sara decides to continue working 40 hours per week, and her income goes down to $70,000 per year.

Victor and Khalifa decide to work just 30 hours per week, and their income goes down to $60,000 per year.

Inès is hired as a permanent employee but only for 20 hours per week, and makes $50,000 per year.

Total work done: 120 hours per week (no change). Cost to company: $240,000 per year (no change). Cost to government: $0 per year.


There is a more detailed explanation of why this works available at http:/pastebin。com/Q86Zhgs9 but if you have any comments, please post them here! If you want the President to address the unemployment problem now, instead of waiting years and years for new products to be developed that companies need to hire for, contact the White House to tell them your concerns here: http:/www。whitehouse。gov/contact/

Hiring incentives should be given to private sector businesses (with emphasis on small businesses). Something along the lines of tax breaks.

The problem is, this administration and the previous congress gave small incentives to businesses, however those incentives were offset by new taxes, or regulations and not every business qualified for those incentives... Not to mention the majority of those businesses that did receive those incentives labor was unionized.

The only way you're going to create jobs is to allow the free market to dictate labor costs and especially limit government intervention (regulations).

This isn't a dictated economy, yet the progressives treat capitalism as a dictated economy... In reality its the government thats holding this economy back with their intervention.

In reality the government spends more time stealing and punishing businesses than they do helping them... On one hand you have asshats like Obamofuck claiming hes helping these businesses by giving them incentives, however on the other hand he (and democrats in general) will pander to their little socialist clowns by ordering his cronies at the state and local government levels to strongly regulate these said businesses and fine them if they don't bow down to their socialist authoritarian demands/regulations.

Then you got shit like Obamacare, social security and unemployment which further makes these businesses nervous about their future.
 
The only incentive business needs is lower taxes and less regulation. Not lower taxes on some favored piece of shit or other for 18 months. Lower taxes period.
Not less regulation because EPA decides that milk spills are not oil spills. Less regulation period.

This administration has done the antithesis of that. They propose targeted tax breaks that do nothing because they are short term and ineffective. Then they can claim "see, tax cuts don't work" and half the leftist idiots o this site quote it as gospel.
 
Also, businesses are treated as individual entities, so when Obamofuck attacks the "rich" hes attacking businesses as well.

Obama always spews his 200k "threshold" as what defines wealthy. Well 200k is peanuts to a small business, yet those small businesses are treated as individuals (with a few exceptions).... Not to mention the progressive states such as Illinois are more brutal when it comes to taxation.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Hiring incentives should be given to private sector businesses (with emphasis on small businesses). Something along the lines of tax breaks.

The problem is, this administration and the previous congress gave small incentives to businesses, however those incentives were offset by new taxes, or regulations and not every business qualified for those incentives... Not to mention the majority of those businesses that did receive those incentives labor was unionized.

The only way you're going to create jobs is to allow the free market to dictate labor costs and especially limit government intervention (regulations).

This isn't a dictated economy, yet the progressives treat capitalism as a dictated economy... In reality its the government thats holding this economy back with their intervention.

In reality the government spends more time stealing and punishing businesses than they do helping them... On one hand you have asshats like Obamofuck claiming hes helping these businesses by giving them incentives, however on the other hand he (and democrats in general) will pander to their little socialist clowns by ordering his cronies at the state and local government levels to strongly regulate these said businesses and fine them if they don't bow down to their socialist authoritarian demands/regulations.

Then you got shit like Obamacare, social security and unemployment which further makes these businesses nervous about their future.

And businesses have had the luxury of doing just that for over a decade now. Yet wages have remained flat, benefits diminished or eliminated, AND they had an added benefit of windfalls from tax cuts.
 
And businesses have had the luxury of doing just that for over a decade now.

what luxury??? Huge competition from China and India, the highest taxes in world, a huge housing recession, and now an anti business president who had 2 communist parents, wants single payer and cap and trade.

Libs hate business becuase they don't understand that it provides the jobs and products that got us fro the stone age to here. You'd only hate your savior it if you were a nutso marxist like BO who wants to overthrow the system.
 
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Also, businesses are treated as individual entities, so when Obamofuck attacks the "rich" hes attacking businesses as well.

Obama always spews his 200k "threshold" as what defines wealthy. Well 200k is peanuts to a small business, yet those small businesses are treated as individuals (with a few exceptions).... Not to mention the progressive states such as Illinois are more brutal when it comes to taxation.

First off, it's $250,000 for a small business, not $200,000. According to a National Small Business Association study for 2008:

Small businesses comprise 99.9% of the 26.8 million U.S. businesses; 14.7 million are firms whose owners do not have outside employment and who have employees.

75% of small business reported revenues of less than $1,000,000; 22% of those revenues on average are taken home as profits. Therefore, if 75% of small businesses earn less than $1,000,000, 75% of small business owners would stay under the $250,000 income threshold.

Of the 25% with revenues in excess of $1,000,000, nearly a third file taxes as a corporation and would therefore not be subject to personal income taxes, or personal income tax increases.

NSBA found that 13 percent of small and mid-sized businesses have personal incomes above $150,000 annually - "a lower percentage is likely above the $250,000 threshold."
 
And businesses have had the luxury of doing just that for over a decade now.

what luxury??? Huge competition from China and India, the highest taxes in world, a huge housing recession, and now an anti business president who had 2 communist parents, wants single payer and cap and trade.

Libs hate business becuase they don't understand that it provides the jobs and products that got us fro the stone age to here. You'd only hate your savior it if you were a nutso marxist like BO who wants to overthrow the system.

:cuckoo:
 
We have had 1 style of Government for so many years people don't know anything different.
...

Even if we manage to squeeze past this "Great Recession" do you have any idea how long it will be until we are doing well again?
What are you talking about, national per-quarter income has increased by $528 billion since the recovery started! http:/economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/30/the-wageless-profitable-recovery/

...it's just that 88% of those profits went to corporate profits, not to small businesses or employee wages and salaries. Unemployment is the issue here, not "GDP" or "economic growth".

So here we are, big Government Reps and Big Government Dems have failed. There is only one choice and that’s to massively shrink Government or I guess end the country… There literally is no other choice.
The other choice is described in the OP, and explained in further detail here:
http:/pastebin.com/QrmDEymL
http:/pastebin.com/Q86Zhgs9


Republicans had their turn in office and OHHHH boy did they fuck it up… This post might seem oddly 1 sided considering I’ bitching about people being partisan yet there is one reality you would have to miss… DEMOCRATS HAVE TWO THIRDS OF THE FUCKING POWER, and up until 5 months ago they had 100 fucking % power. Bush and the Rep have been beatin to a pulp for what they did and rightfully so, yet here these fuck wads are defending the ZERO repeals of Bush era policy Democrats (and Obama) just like the crazy ass shit for brains Bush-bots did.
You are right that people still blame the Bush administration:
http:/www。nytimes.com/interactive/2011/06/30/business/20110630poll-full-results.html

[Q. 13] Who do you think is mostly to blame for the current state of the nation's economy — 1. the Bush administration, 2. the Obama administration, 3. Wall Street and financial institutions, 4. Congress, or 5. someone else? ANSWER OPTIONS WERE ROTATED.
Bush administration: 26%
Obama administration: 8%
Wall Street and fin. inst.: 25%
Congress: 11%
Someone else: 8%
All of the above (vol.[unteered?]): 7%
Combination (vol.): 12%
DK/NA: 3%

However, President Obama's excuse has been that economists were wrong about how to fix unemployment, and that is a very valid excuse. The only question is whether they can acknowledge their mistakes on the effect of encouraging people to increase GDP ("economic growth") by buying more iPods from corporations that don't spend their profits:
http:/pastebin.com/QrmDEymL
 

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