For Libertarian leaning folks

[JWBooth]

What are you trying to say because I'm saying libertarian philosophy is supposed to be opposed to tariffs.

Point taken, the response was from a misreading of your post.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I have to defer to your expertise here, Tommy. How dumb is fuck?

Check out the career of Liz Truss. She crashed everything in 2 weeks.

 

[Failzero]

No, they don't.....They're so far right that even traditional "righties" can't see them over the horizon.

Name one “ Far Right “ Congress Critter Or US Senator ( So I can send them 25.00$ right away )

 

[Oddball]

Name one “ Far Right “ Congress Critter Or US Senator ( So I can send them 25.00$ right away )

Rand Paul & Thomas Massie, for two.

 

[Failzero]

Rand Paul & Thomas Massie, for two.

Sorry but no ( Both Are Middle Right at best )

 

[Oddball]

The Aleppo flub wasn't a good look, unfortunately. It was a fairly big story in the media at that time.
I don't know all that much about Weld, but he definitely seemed to have a better image/persona than Johnson. The reality is that that is important for presidential elections. If the messaging and policy remained the same, I think a Weld/Johnson ticket would have been more palatable to the average voter than Johnson/Weld was. Johnson is just a bit too flaky.

Weld is a MA "republican", who drinks a lot...That's all you really need to know about his "libertarian" bona fides...Johnson was a joke in the poorest of taste....The face of GOP monkey wrenchers that infiltrated the party after Browne, and turned it into the clown car it is today.

Don't get me wrong, I found Johnson to be a much better candidate than the garbage we got (and generally get) from the Ds and Rs. And I looked at Johnson as sort of being libertarian-lite: I think that libertarians can sometimes be too extreme in their views for practicality, whereas Johnson's campaign seemed a bit more 'mainstream'. Unless someone hyper-rich funds a LP campaign, I don't think there's much chance of them making waves in a presidential election. Better to work from the bottom up.

Harry Browne wasn't hyper-rich, and he drew enough support to qualify for federal matching funds, twice.

 

[Oddball]

Sorry but no ( Both Are Middle Right at best )

Mmmmm'kay.

 

[Mac1958]

Check out the career of Liz Truss. She crashed everything in 2 weeks.

It doesn't work as a governing principle. And unfortunately, it does tend to attract naive, insulated, simplistic nutbirds. Stipulated.

That said, I do think their voices should be heard, and that their principle of watching your goddamn spending is a perfectly valid guardrail. So I want them in the conversation.

I voted for Harry Browne back in the day, but since he left it's jumped off the rails, and now the GQP has this weird, shallow, binary, quasi-libertarian streak in it that isn't very attractive.

 

[Oddball]

The problem with tariffs in libertarian philosophy is that they are a form of protectionism.

Go the fuck away, child.....Adults are conversing here.

 

[Failzero]

Mmmmm'kay.

Far Right in Elected Politics in DC =

 

[Oddball]

The LP is always going to be a fringe party, there is room for growth, but it will never convince enough people that liberty and personal responsibility go hand in hand. It's greatest hope is to find an articulate candidate who can move the Overton Window on issues. One can be very libertarian and look askance at the LP and there are lots of reasons to do so. Once again, its down to a matter of who owns you. Are you sovereign member of the smallest minority out there, the individual?

They were getting more attention and attracting voters with the Harry Browne faction running the show....Hence, the neocon GOP infiltration and money wrenching campaign that ensued after his passing.

As for drug legalisation, I have previously spoken to that. During one of his presidential campaigns the great Ron Paul was challenged on this issue. His response was to ask the crowd how many of them would take up the needle and start shooting heroin if it were legalised. No hands went up. There are people who are predisposed to finding a way to destroy their bodies whether it be tobacco, drugs, sugar, food, alcohol, or other risky behaviors. It is the right of any self owning individual to do as they wish with their body and suffer the consequences of their actions.

There's also the truth that really dangerous drugs like crack, crystal meth, and fentanyl likely wouldn't exist at all, if addicts had access to natural opiates and stimulants....Say what you will about pot legalization, but the synthetic products that were harming people have all but evaporated from the marketplace.

 

[Oddball]

Far Right in Elected Politics in DC =

I pointed them out to you....There's nothing "middle" about either of them.

 

[Natural Citizen]

The LP is always going to be a fringe party, there is room for growth, but it will never convince enough people that liberty and personal responsibility go hand in hand. It's greatest hope is to find an articulate candidate who can move the Overton Window on issues. One can be very libertarian and look askance at the LP and there are lots of reasons to do so. Once again, its down to a matter of who owns you. Are you sovereign member of the smallest minority out there, the individual?
You mentioned the trannys, and Flash, in post #20 spoke of open borders. The proper libertarian response is that you can lop off your crank, dye your hair purple and green, and get tattooed from head to toe, that is your choice as an individual, but like legalised drugs, you should bear personal responsibility for your actions and their consequences with no special consideration for your mental illness. They have no extra rights beyond those of any individual. Lines drawn on a map by individuals with no special claim should be meaningless and without the social welfare state would be. Many hard open borders libertarians are coming around to this pov.
As for drug legalisation, I have previously spoken to that. During one of his presidential campaigns the great Ron Paul was challenged on this issue. His response was to ask the crowd how many of them would take up the needle and start shooting heroin if it were legalised. No hands went up. There are people who are predisposed to finding a way to destroy their bodies whether it be tobacco, drugs, sugar, food, alcohol, or other risky behaviors. It is the right of any self owning individual to do as they wish with their body and suffer the consequences of their actions.

I repeat the statesman's line often, whenever the topic of drug laws come up. I remember it well when he said it. It was a perfect response to a loaded question.

But yeah. As always, the word liberty, while I'm guilty of doing it myself, shouldn't ever really be written or spoken absent the word responsiblity. That hits at the heart of the matter. Good post, JW.

 

[Failzero]

I pointed them out to you....There's nothing "middle" about either of them.

And nothing Far Right either ( They are not a lock on every Freedom Caucus Issue )

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

The only ones that replied were the ones who were still pushing for legalizing drugs and protecting trans and gay people. Pushing that a LOT harder than fiscal conservatism

And THIS is why libertarians get 2% of the vote. And don't forget open borders, legalized prostitution, and drugs

 

[candycorn]

Again, Just so we're clear on this. "For Libertarian leaning folks."

I didn't see a libertarian section around here.

What's up with the LP lately? I haven't heard much from them in the last couple of years. The Mises Caucus taking over made some headlines. Supposedly they were cleaning out the die hard left leaning libertarians and trying to bring the LP back to something that resembled the Ron Paul R3VOlUTION. But all the news died down about as fast as it came.
I found my states LP Facebook page and found it was as dead as a doornail. I struck up a conversation on one if their threads, and was asking a few basic questions to see where the party was and if they'd gotten the party back in shape.
The only ones that replied were the ones who were still pushing for legalizing drugs and protecting trans and gay people. Pushing that a LOT harder than fiscal conservatism.
But this was just FB. So I realize this may not reflect the LP's leadership.

Anyone keeping up with the LP lately? Neither Biden nor Trump is going to get my vote (again). So I'm in search for a party who's more fiscally conservative.

I did a paper on the libertarian party when I was in college 30 some odd years ago. One would think that the party would have consolidated some more power by now.

Why haven’t they? I suppose there are two schools of though on this. Supporters would usually say (supporters of anything when posed with the question--why hasn’t ______ grown??) “we can’t be bought!”. The other group would look at the lack of growth and conclude that they simply ain’t got it.

What the former doesn’t want to acknowledge and what the latter accepts is that if you’re a sports league, if you’re a political party, if you’re a church, a union, etc... you find a way to go mainstream, access the public and private coffers, and get at least a toe hold into the zeitgeist. Libertarianism has done none of this.

Their candidates have no visibility. The platform is indefensible and impractical. They are the Scientology of political parties.

 

[Oddball]

And nothing Far Right either ( They are not a lock on every Freedom Caucus Issue )

You want center-right, look no further than the limp-wristed "Freedom Caucus".

 

[Natural Citizen]

The most headache inducing debates I've ever had are with the ancaps.

It's like sitting across the table from that pepe the frog. lol.

And I don't even disagree with em in any meaningful way. It's just the art of the batle of wit that drives a feller up the wall.

 

[JWBooth]

I repeat the statesman's line often, whenever the topic of drug laws come up. I remember it well when he said it. It was a perfect response to a loaded question.

But yeah. As always, the word liberty, while I'm guilty of doing it myself, shouldn't ever really be written or spoken absent the word responsiblity. That hits at the heart of the matter. Good post, JW.

Thank you, I am not usually so verbose.

 

[JWBooth]