FDR's Military Acumen Saved Soldiers?

[PoliticalChic]

So....one of my buds, having a deep an abiding love of President Franklin Roosevelt...no matter what!.....

...now claims the following for his idol:
" ...hundreds of thousands of American soldiers remained alive,..."

Any who believe that FDR's decisions saved American soldiers would do well to read the following:


The bulk of our international problems stem directly from the intentions, strategy, actions, of President Franklin Roosevelt.
Had he not supported and inflated the USSR, there would not have been a Red China.
Nor a Korean War.
But the issue has revolved around whether the Left's icon was misguided, or intended the deleterious political philosophy.




1. In August of 1943, Roosevelt and Churchill met in Quebec. Stalin was not present. "Churchill advocated that the allies open the second front in Europe through the Balkans” – as Churchill described it, the “soft underbelly of Europe.” This would prevent a Soviet rush into that area, avoiding the permanent establish of the authority of the Soviet Union in this region, potentially saving much of Central Europe from Soviet tyranny. General Wedemeyer conveys Roosevelt’s view on this notion:
…The President then added the curious statement that he did not understand the British viewpoint in this connection, for he, Roosevelt, did not believe that the Soviets wanted to take over the Balkan states but wished only to establish “kinship with other Slavic peoples.”
Roosevelt's BFF ?Uncle Joe? ?



a. How could he have believed this? In 1937-1938, at the height of his pal, 'Uncle Joe' Stalin's terror, 40,000 were killed per month at Stalin's behest. Full text of "Solzhenitsyn: The Voice of Freedom"

b. In November-December, the two leaders met with Stalin....who refused the Churchill plan....and demanded the second front through the West.




2. General Mark Clark was, at the time, in command of Allied Armies in Italy. He strongly supported the Prime Minister’s viewpoint, as indicated in his book written after the war:
…A campaign that might have changed the whole history of relations between the Western world and Soviet Russia was permitted to fade away….Not alone in my opinion, but in the opinion of a number of experts who were close to the problem, the weakening of the campaign in Italy in order to invade southern France and instead of pushing on in the Balkans was one of the outstanding political mistakes of the war.…Had we been there before the Red Army, not only would the collapse of Germany have come sooner, but the influence of Soviet Russia would have been drastically reduced.




3. Upon his return to the U. S. from Cairo and Tehran, Roosevelt delivered a radio address. Regarding Stalin, Roosevelt said:
To use an American and somewhat ungrammatical colloquialism, I may say that “I got along fine” with Marshall Stalin…I believe we are going to get along very well with him and the Russian people – very well indeed….
Roosevelt's BFF ?Uncle Joe? ?





4. "What did he know, and when did he know it."

a. The Great Purge revelations from Soviet archives, historians now estimate that nearly 700,000 people (353,074 in 1937 and 328,612 in 1938) were executed in the course of the terror, with the great mass of victims merely "ordinary" Soviet citizens: workers, peasants, homemakers, teachers, priests, musicians, soldiers, pensioners, ballerinas, beggars.

b. The Ukrainian Famine 1932–1933...estimated at between 5 and 10 million people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

c. Stalin, leader of the Soviet Union, set in motion events designed to cause a famine in the Ukraine to destroy the people there seeking independence from his rule.
The History Place - Genocide in the 20th Century: Stalin's Forced Famine 1932-33


"I believe we are going to get along very well with him .... – very well indeed…."



If the collapse of Germany have come sooner....think that would have saved American lives?
And the Korean War....36,940 Americans killed, 91,134 wounded, and 8,176 still missing.

I guess BFF Uncle Joe was simply more important....

 

[rightwinger]

Makes no fucking sense

 

[PoliticalChic]

Makes no fucking sense

Everyone told you you should have stayed in school....

 

[JakeStarkey]

(1) Only way a Red China, and possibly a Korean War, would not have existed would have been if the USSR lost in WWII. Conclusion: PC would have rather Hitler won than the United Nations.
(2) A thrust through the “underbelly” of Eastern Europe would have drained off vital 2nd Front supplies for the Normandy Invasion, and quite possibley led to the withdrawal of the USSR. Conclusion: PC would have rather Hiter won than the United Nations.
(3) Whether FDR’s state about getting along well with Stalin is propaganda or not is irrelevant to anything.
(4) The Great Purge had nothing to do with the allying of the US with the USSR.
(5) The obvious conclusions are that the war would not have ended sooner despite the suggestions of PC.
(6) Conclusion: PC is pro-fascist and anti-humanity and anti-Semetic. This has to be so if she wanted the Third Reich to win the war. The West could not have won the war without the Soviet Union.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Either PC is writing her own distorted history of FDR or she is reviewing one under work.

 

[PoliticalChic]

(1) Only way a Red China, and possibly a Korean War, would not have existed would have been if the USSR lost in WWII. Conclusion: PC would have rather Hitler won than the United Nations.
(2) A thrust through the “underbelly” of Eastern Europe would have drained off vital 2nd Front supplies for the Normandy Invasion, and quite possibley led to the withdrawal of the USSR. Conclusion: PC would have rather Hiter won than the United Nations.
(3) Whether FDR’s state about getting along well with Stalin is propaganda or not is irrelevant to anything.
(4) The Great Purge had nothing to do with the allying of the US with the USSR.
(5) The obvious conclusions are that the war would not have ended sooner despite the suggestions of PC.
(6) Conclusion: PC is pro-fascist and anti-humanity and anti-Semetic. This has to be so if she wanted the Third Reich to win the war. The West could not have won the war without the Soviet Union.

Can you imagine how utterly crushed I'd be if such a post had been authored by one with even the most modest of IQ's???


Of course, said individual would, by definition, never have issued such gibberish.



This may be my fav:
"The Great Purge had nothing to do with the allying of the US with the USSR."


Can't wait for the sequel:
"The Holocaust had no effect on the world's attitude toward Nazi Germany."



So....we're agreed, then? You have all the skills necessary to be employed in valet parking at the hospital emergency room!

 

[JakeStarkey]

PC, in other words, cedes the ground to the better writer.

She would give Europe to the Nazis rather than defeat them.

Why would you have supported fascism, PC, when Americans clearly did not?

 

[rightwinger]

(1) Only way a Red China, and possibly a Korean War, would not have existed would have been if the USSR lost in WWII. Conclusion: PC would have rather Hitler won than the United Nations.
(2) A thrust through the “underbelly” of Eastern Europe would have drained off vital 2nd Front supplies for the Normandy Invasion, and quite possibley led to the withdrawal of the USSR. Conclusion: PC would have rather Hiter won than the United Nations.
(3) Whether FDR’s state about getting along well with Stalin is propaganda or not is irrelevant to anything.
(4) The Great Purge had nothing to do with the allying of the US with the USSR.
(5) The obvious conclusions are that the war would not have ended sooner despite the suggestions of PC.
(6) Conclusion: PC is pro-fascist and anti-humanity and anti-Semetic. This has to be so if she wanted the Third Reich to win the war. The West could not have won the war without the Soviet Union.

Can you imagine how utterly crushed I'd be if such a post had been authored by one with even the most modest of IQ's???


Of course, said individual would, by definition, never have issued such gibberish.



This may be my fav:
"The Great Purge had nothing to do with the allying of the US with the USSR."


Can't wait for the sequel:
"The Holocaust had no effect on the world's attitude toward Nazi Germany."



So....we're agreed, then? You have all the skills necessary to be employed in valet parking at the hospital emergency room!

U R STOOOOPID

The scope of PCs debating skills

 

[PrometheusBound]

Even without American involvement in the war, Germany would never have defeated Russia. The outcome would have been total German defeat, Russia too weakened to go beyond its own borders, and the other European nations recovered enough to have adequate defensive armies. But FDR can't be blamed because all historians think that Russia would have been defeated without our help, leaving Germany with overwhelming resources against the United States, which Hitler would have launched a pre-emptive attack against.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"all historians think that Russia would have been defeated without our help" is an unfounded statement.

The Soviets simply would have kept withdrawing and moving their factories. They had done that before the USA entered the war.

However, if Hitler's scientists had developed an atomic weapon, yes, the Soviets eventually would have been defeated.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC, in other words, cedes the ground to the better writer.

She would give Europe to the Nazis rather than defeat them.

Why would you have supported fascism, PC, when Americans clearly did not?

I agree.....you're the better waiter.

 

[PoliticalChic]

(1) Only way a Red China, and possibly a Korean War, would not have existed would have been if the USSR lost in WWII. Conclusion: PC would have rather Hitler won than the United Nations.
(2) A thrust through the “underbelly” of Eastern Europe would have drained off vital 2nd Front supplies for the Normandy Invasion, and quite possibley led to the withdrawal of the USSR. Conclusion: PC would have rather Hiter won than the United Nations.
(3) Whether FDR’s state about getting along well with Stalin is propaganda or not is irrelevant to anything.
(4) The Great Purge had nothing to do with the allying of the US with the USSR.
(5) The obvious conclusions are that the war would not have ended sooner despite the suggestions of PC.
(6) Conclusion: PC is pro-fascist and anti-humanity and anti-Semetic. This has to be so if she wanted the Third Reich to win the war. The West could not have won the war without the Soviet Union.

Can you imagine how utterly crushed I'd be if such a post had been authored by one with even the most modest of IQ's???


Of course, said individual would, by definition, never have issued such gibberish.



This may be my fav:
"The Great Purge had nothing to do with the allying of the US with the USSR."


Can't wait for the sequel:
"The Holocaust had no effect on the world's attitude toward Nazi Germany."



So....we're agreed, then? You have all the skills necessary to be employed in valet parking at the hospital emergency room!

U R STOOOOPID

The scope of PCs debating skills

So....you have a rebuttal...

Evidence to the contrary.....

A fact based alternative....

...to the OP?



Otherwise....

U R STOOOOPID

 

[JakeStarkey]

That's just it, PC. You had a simple personality attack and no rebuttal.

Yet you chide RW.

 

[PoliticalChic]

That's just it, PC. You had a simple personality attack and no rebuttal.

Yet you chide RW.

Let's not overlook the obvious:

You're a simple person.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The truth is often simple.

You would rather have the Nazis take Europe than the communists take half of Europe.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The truth is often simple.

You would rather have the Nazis take Europe than the communists take half of Europe.

No, you moron.....I would rather they both annihilated each other.

Amazing that that actual had to be said.



I can't decide which is your most annoying characteristic,.... littering, loitering, or living.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The truth is often simple.

You would rather have the Nazis take Europe than the communists take half of Europe.

No, you moron.....I would rather they both annihilated each other.

Amazing that that actual had to be said.

I can't decide which is your most annoying characteristic,.... littering, loitering, or living.

But they would not have done that, and you know it.

Thus, you would embrace the Nazis as so many of them hoped they would be by the West in later 1944 and 1945. They were as credulous then as you are now. You church party people are amazing, from the weirder parts of Opus Dei to the more insane cults of the reactionary Christian far right.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The truth is often simple.

You would rather have the Nazis take Europe than the communists take half of Europe.

No, you moron.....I would rather they both annihilated each other.

Amazing that that actual had to be said.

I can't decide which is your most annoying characteristic,.... littering, loitering, or living.

But they would not have done that, and you know it.

Thus, you would embrace the Nazis as so many of them hoped they would be by the West in later 1944 and 1945. They were as credulous then as you are now. You church party people are amazing, from the weirder parts of Opus Dei to the more insane cults of the reactionary Christian far right.

1. ".... you know...."

What I know is that, in your inept attempts to appear relevant, you post truly stupid and childish word salads.

"....you would embrace the Nazis..."

The only possible explanation is that you are stupid and childish.





"....hoped they would be by the West in later 1944 and 1945..."

Again...your ignorance is showing. Zip up.


The associations with the Nazis and the fascists can be traced directly to Franklin Delano Roosevelt....and would have continued had the horrors of the Holocaust not been revealed.

Now...watch and learn.
I document my contention:

2. In 1933, Fascism was celebrating its eleventh year in power, in Italy, and the election of the National Socialists in Germany represented an unmitigated defeat for liberal democracy in Europe’s largest industrialized nation.

a. At the beginning of the same month, FDR was inaugurated as President. And before Congress went into recess it granted powers to Roosevelt unprecedented in peacetime. From Congressional hearings, 1973: “Since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency.”
Freedomsite.net

3. The National Socialists hailed these ‘relief measures’ in ways you will recognize:

a. May 11, 1933, the Nazi newspaper Volkischer Beobachter, (People’s Observer): “Roosevelt’s Dictatorial Recovery Measures.”

b. And on January 17, 1934, “We, too, as German National Socialists are looking toward America…” and “Roosevelt’s adoption of National Socialist strains of thought in his economic and social policies” comparable to Hitler’s own dictatorial ‘Fuhrerprinzip.’

c. And “[Roosevelt], too demands that collective good be put before individual self-interest. Many passages in his [Roosevelt's] book ‘Looking Forward’ could have been written by a National Socialist….one can assume that he feels considerable affinity with the National Socialist philosophy.”

d. The paper also refers to “…the fictional appearance of democracy.”


4. “The similarities of the economics of the New Deal to the economics of Mussolini’s corporative state or Hitler’s totalitarian state are both close and obvious.” Norman Thomas, head of the American Socialist Party.

Covered fully in Schivelbush's "Three New Deals"





Imagine....if you had an education, you'd be able to do so, as well.

Of course, with an education, you would wouldn't be a supporter of the man whose economic and governing policies were the pride and joy of Hitler and Mussolini.......Franklin Delano Roosevelt.


I double dog dare you to discuss the details in this post.

If you change the subject, you will remain the human piñata.

 

[Flopper]

Had he not supported and inflated the USSR, there would not have been a Red China.
Nor a Korean War.

I agree, there would been no Korean War nor Red China because Korean and China would been Japanese protectorates.

 

[JakeStarkey]

1. Personal attacks in lieu of evidence?
2. The last date was before the mid 1930s.
3. My comments dealt with 1944 and 1945 and that
4. You wanted Nazi Germany to win the war against Communism.