Favoring party over country

[Bfgrn]

say whatever you like, I definitely want the OBAMA'S and his comrades in Arms policies to FAIL. If I wanted to live in a Socialist-Communist country, I'd move to one.

So much for your belief in our system of government. If you want a one party totalitarian country move to one.

omg, what the hell do you think we have NOW. the Democrats CONTROLL it all, the Presidency, the Congress. we HAVE NO CHECKS AND BALANCES that you all screamed about during the Bush administration, and now the Democrats are RUBBER STAMPING every damn thing this President and his comrades in arms push, even AGAINST the Americans people wishes.
good grief.

WHAT do we have now...the will OF We, the People.

We, the People ELECTED Obama and We, the People ELECTED Democratic control of Congress.

That the will of the people is against YOUR 'wishes' is YOUR problem.

 

[Immanuel]

Immie is the floridas felons list a lie?

I don't recall ever claiming it was, now, please quit attempting to derail this thread!

We get the hint, you do not like anyone putting down your beloved leader, but the OP in this thread was well thought out and leads to an excellent discussion, if you would simply let it.

Immie

 

[Stephanie]

So much for your belief in our system of government. If you want a one party totalitarian country move to one.

omg, what the hell do you think we have NOW. the Democrats CONTROLL it all, the Presidency, the Congress. we HAVE NO CHECKS AND BALANCES that you all screamed about during the Bush administration, and now the Democrats are RUBBER STAMPING every damn thing this President and his comrades in arms push, even AGAINST the Americans people wishes.
good grief.

WHAT do we have now...the will OF We, the People.

We, the People ELECTED Obama and We, the People ELECTED Democratic control of Congress.

That the will of the people is against YOUR 'wishes' is YOUR problem.

The American people were duped, HOPE AND CHANGE BABY now they will get to live with it. I hope the ones who voted for all this pay the most. even though we will all go down with them.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

So much for your belief in our system of government. If you want a one party totalitarian country move to one.

omg, what the hell do you think we have NOW. the Democrats CONTROLL it all, the Presidency, the Congress. we HAVE NO CHECKS AND BALANCES that you all screamed about during the Bush administration, and now the Democrats are RUBBER STAMPING every damn thing this President and his comrades in arms push, even AGAINST the Americans people wishes.
good grief.

WHAT do we have now...the will OF We, the People.

We, the People ELECTED Obama and We, the People ELECTED Democratic control of Congress.

That the will of the people is against YOUR 'wishes' is YOUR problem.

Hey.. here's a prediction for you.. come November the "will of the people" will be dramatically different from "YOUR" wishes. Nobody, save a few Marxists/Progressives wanted this pile of crap that is the Obama presidency.

 

[Christopher]

I often wonder about this when it comes to administrations that are particularly polarizing. This one and the last one especially.

It seems to me that opponents of Obama desperately want to see him fail, to have our country fall deeper into recession/depression, and lose ground in the middle east (the higher the US military death toll the better), all for the sake of acquiring political advantage entering into the next election cycle. And conversely, I saw the exact same sentiment spewing from the other side of the aisle during the Bush administration.

As much as this disgusts me, sentiment is one thing, actively trying to make it happen is another. So please consider and discuss the following:

1. Do you think that people in positions of real influence do indeed, actively try to sabotage and undermine the efforts of the current administration to the detriment of all Americans purely for political purposes?

and if so...

2. Who are they and what specifically do you think they do in their efforts to sabotage?

A great thread topic; this is a discussion that needs to happen. Here are my answers, along with some other related thoughts.

1. Yes, I do and agree with Plymco that such behavior is unacceptable. I do not want our country to fail either. I would prefer politicians put their country before their own interests of power and control and implement policies which help us succeed. I have disagreed with policies Obama has implemented or tried to implement because I see them as not helping our country succeed. I have done the same for Bush.
2. Both sides, Democrats and Republicans, and those in between are guilty of obstructionist policies. The political divide seems to be getting bigger which is a root reason our country is continuing to fail. I'm not talking about an overall "policy" divide, but a divide of not listening to each other honestly. Pride, narcissism, etc. in our politicians are fueled by the increased power of government. The more pride (I’m talking about the “bad” pride, such as unwillingness to admit when one is in the wrong) they have the more unwilling they are to concede and work together on issues. Their pride fuels them to “win” at all cost, even to the distortion of facts, or only providing the facts that support their position. That is how each side really undermines each other. As far as who are “they”, I would say most politicians are this way to varying degrees. For the voters, many are the same way with their “pride” and will put party first and not admit when “their side” is wrong.

Another aspect of this that I have thought about for some time is that politicians like to do what is easiest to “move the masses” to their side. It is much easier to do this by demonizing their opponent. If they can drag their opponent down and put the focus on the other sides’ negative aspects, they can invoke emotion in voters not to vote for the other side. I am deeply saddened when any politician does this and I absolutely abhor it. We the people are really to blame. There are too many Americans that have let “our side” convince us that theirs is the only path for success and pride gets in the way of even listening openly and honestly to the other side. Too many listen to the demonizing of the other side such that they become convinced there is not point in even listening to the other side. What is sad is that this makes the divide even greater and the larger this divide becomes, the harder it is to bridge it.

I believe the root reason for our failures is that our pride and selfishness gets in the way of working together for real success. We are human and have always had this problem. The issue with this I think is larger today because there seems to be a higher level of pride, arrogance, narcissism and selfishness in society and particularly politicians. One of the solutions I think is to give the government less power. If we decrease politicians’ power, we decrease lobbyists’ incentives, and we reduce the “fuel” for politicians’ arrogance and pride which creates the division among our politicians.

As Franklin once said: “We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.”

 

[Article 15]

Anyone got a penny?

The record player that is TM is stuck again.

Kick it.

kick it HARD.

You two should line up with her ...

 

[Truthmatters]

The American people were kept from voting by republicans

 

[WillowTree]

Most Americans do not run their own business, why should they have a business owner act on theoir behalf in congress?

Most Americans are not politicians, why should they have a politician act on their behalf in Congress?

Immie

Okay.THAT was a serious question?!
We are a representative republic, Immie. THOSE "politicians" are who we elect to REPRESENT us.
Write to them support or oppose them, but for christssake engage in communication with them, because YOU VOTE FOR THEM to do the very thing you seem to object to here.
WTF?!

are you seriously gonna sit here and try to tell us the demonRats in congress are listening? If they were they would have noticed that about 65% of the country opposed the obie wan take over of our health care system. so I guess you fail.

 

[Truthmatters]

Here you people talk of the will of the people.

What about the REAL will of the people?

Do you think the integrity of elections means nohting?

 

[WillowTree]

Kick it.

kick it HARD.

You two should line up with her ...

forgettaboudit then.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I often wonder about this when it comes to administrations that are particularly polarizing. This one and the last one especially.

It seems to me that opponents of Obama desperately want to see him fail, to have our country fall deeper into recession/depression, and lose ground in the middle east (the higher the US military death toll the better), all for the sake of acquiring political advantage entering into the next election cycle. And conversely, I saw the exact same sentiment spewing from the other side of the aisle during the Bush administration.

As much as this disgusts me, sentiment is one thing, actively trying to make it happen is another. So please consider and discuss the following:

1. Do you think that people in positions of real influence do indeed, actively try to sabotage and undermine the efforts of the current administration to the detriment of all Americans purely for political purposes?

and if so...

2. Who are they and what specifically do you think they do in their efforts to sabotage?

1) Yes I do and I find that to be abhorrent behavior. Do I want Obama's policy initiatives such as health care, cap and trade, not suspending the jones act to clean up the oil, trying to ban all drilling, ruining our alliance with england/israel, and bailing out big corporations with tax money to fail? Well of coarse I do. If those policies fail I feel it will be for the betterment of america. If those policies succeed I feel it will hurt my country and my fellow citizens.

2) Im not sure of any one in particular person that is doing this in order to "hurt america". Do you have anyone who you feel is doing this? maybe if you share one person it will give me a direction to put my thinking towards for you.


I dont want my president or my country to fail. I just want his fundamentally tranforming america policies to not be implimented.

You don't want America or our President to fail, just as long as he follows YOUR prescription...

So, the election and the will of We, the People is totally meaningless to you...ALL that matters is YOUR ideology and YOUR political beliefs. If our President's prescriptions FIX the problems, that is also totally meaningless to you...

You are so off base that you do not deserve a detailed response. Way to take what I said completely out of the context of the thread as I named the SPECIFIC things I had an issue with.

 

[Barb]

GOP Memo Admits Plan Could 'Keep Black Vote Down' - Los Angeles Times

Immie are the court ordered documents from the republican party itself a lie?

Ah, sweetie, START A THREAD, and we'll argue this.

 

[Immanuel]

Most Americans do not run their own business, why should they have a business owner act on theoir behalf in congress?

Most Americans are not politicians, why should they have a politician act on their behalf in Congress?

Immie

Okay.THAT was a serious question?!
We are a representative republic, Immie. THOSE "politicians" are who we elect to REPRESENT us.
Write to them support or oppose them, but for christssake engage in communication with them, because YOU VOTE FOR THEM to do the very thing you seem to object to here.
WTF?!

Serious question? No, just making a point.

Business leaders can lead this country as well (if not better) than career politicians. TM made the preposterous insinuation that business leaders have no place in Congress, yet, many politicians are, in fact, business leaders.

What we need in Congress are a few single moms, and maybe a few enlisted men, a few students, a few working class men and women etc. etc. etc.

What we need to kick out of Congress are the lobbyists and those who profit from lobbyists.

Immie

 

[Truthmatters]

omg, what the hell do you think we have NOW. the Democrats CONTROLL it all, the Presidency, the Congress. we HAVE NO CHECKS AND BALANCES that you all screamed about during the Bush administration, and now the Democrats are RUBBER STAMPING every damn thing this President and his comrades in arms push, even AGAINST the Americans people wishes.
good grief.

WHAT do we have now...the will OF We, the People.

We, the People ELECTED Obama and We, the People ELECTED Democratic control of Congress.

That the will of the people is against YOUR 'wishes' is YOUR problem.

The American people were duped, HOPE AND CHANGE BABY now they will get to live with it. I hope the ones who voted for all this pay the most. even though we will all go down with them.

Who brought us down?

Your guy whpo was placed in the seat through tampered elections

 

[WillowTree]

GOP Memo Admits Plan Could 'Keep Black Vote Down' - Los Angeles Times

Immie are the court ordered documents from the republican party itself a lie?

Ah, sweetie, START A THREAD, and we'll argue this.

you are going to argue a 1986 LA times article with that? Good Luck.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

There is a big difference between wanting him to fail and simply understanding that the policies cannot succeed. Let me explain.

Afghanistan: We will not create a national government in a country that has for generations been tribal and divided by religion.

Healthcare: No federal health program of this scale has EVER saved money or delivered better service. This one barely shows a projected savings even with skewed inputs to the CBO.

Jobs: Until small businesses can breathe again, jobs are going to be hard to find. Obama's policies in this area only make things worse.

I don't want him to fail, I want him to see the light or leave office soon.

I basically agree with what you are saying. This is what I meant by I dont want some of his policies to succeed. If these policies of his do succeed, in the end, obama will have actually failed at helping us out of our tough times right now in america.

 

[Truthmatters]

Most Americans are not politicians, why should they have a politician act on their behalf in Congress?

Immie

Okay.THAT was a serious question?!
We are a representative republic, Immie. THOSE "politicians" are who we elect to REPRESENT us.
Write to them support or oppose them, but for christssake engage in communication with them, because YOU VOTE FOR THEM to do the very thing you seem to object to here.
WTF?!

Serious question? No, just making a point.

Business leaders can lead this country as well (if not better) than career politicians. TM made the preposterous insinuation that business leaders have no place in Congress, yet, many politicians are, in fact, business leaders.

What we need in Congress are a few single moms, and maybe a few enlisted men, a few students, a few working class men and women etc. etc. etc.

What we need to kick out of Congress are the lobbyists and those who profit from lobbyists.

Immie

Business people are NO better than any other type of American.

There is NO reason to hire them for the job than any other American.

They are not gods , they are merely people

 

[Barb]

Most Americans are not politicians, why should they have a politician act on their behalf in Congress?

Immie

Okay.THAT was a serious question?!
We are a representative republic, Immie. THOSE "politicians" are who we elect to REPRESENT us.
Write to them support or oppose them, but for christssake engage in communication with them, because YOU VOTE FOR THEM to do the very thing you seem to object to here.
WTF?!

are you seriously gonna sit here and try to tell us the demonRats in congress are listening? If they were they would have noticed that about 65% of the country opposed the obie wan take over of our health care system. so I guess you fail.

That is an arguable # and you know it. One of the issues he was elected FOR was health care. If the opposition is somewhat bipartisan, the reasons for the opposition are still poles apart.

 

[Truthmatters]

GOP Memo Admits Plan Could 'Keep Black Vote Down' - Los Angeles Times

Immie are the court ordered documents from the republican party itself a lie?

Ah, sweetie, START A THREAD, and we'll argue this.

you are going to argue a 1986 LA times article with that? Good Luck.

This fits right in with the party over country theme and you all know it.

You just want to pretend the republican party is not the party of cheating assholes.

The evidence is overwhelming that the republicans have put party over country for decades.

 

[Immanuel]

GOP Memo Admits Plan Could 'Keep Black Vote Down' - Los Angeles Times

Immie are the court ordered documents from the republican party itself a lie?

Ah, sweetie, START A THREAD, and we'll argue this.

you are going to argue a 1986 LA times article with that? Good Luck.

Why not, we argue that the dead vote in Chicago and how old are those allegations?

Immie