Faith-healing parents charged in baby's death

[nibor]

Only nutters buy into that stuff.

Cheers.

Nutters you say...............so you lie then..........or are highly uninformed then miss..........................!




http://www.come-and-hear.com/supplement/noahide/Lubavitch-1991-1992-102ndCongress.htm.................written into public law, over and above the Ten Commandments that never were....................under the GUISE OF "EDUCATION DAY"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Obviously truth is different for lawyers.....................or someone!




http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/noahide_laws.htm

 

[nibor]

You do realize that it also TOTALLY COMPROMISES AND DESTROYS THE SEPARATION between church and state.....................but you're so smart you probably knew that then.............right???????


Nothing at all imposing about that................................no no don't tell me, you're going to tell me now that Jews are a race AND NOT a religon....................

 

[Care4all]

As I mentioned earlier, I remembered a whole commotion about the refusal of Jehovah Witnesses to take in any blood or blood -by products.

Here's some of what was said regarding the ruling:

The right to refuse medical
treatment is deeply rooted in
our nation’s fundamental le-
gal tradition of self-deter-
mination.
According to an 1891 prece-
dent from the U.S. Supreme
Court, “No right is held more
sacred, or is more carefully
guarded, by the common
law, than the right of every
individual to the possession
and control of his or her
own person, free from all re-
straint or interference of oth-
ers, unless by clear and un-
questioned authority of
law.”
A healthcare facility cannot
presume to substitute its
own judgment for that of the
patient, or make decisions
on behalf of the State, or
take action simply to pre-
serve its own notions re-
garding the integrity of the
medical profession.
A healthcare facility may go
to court as a neutral party
seeking guidance. As a
practical matter, the law
must allow a healthcare pro-
vider the opportunity to seek
guidance from the legal sys-
tem before going ahead, ei-
ther to disregard a patient’s
rights, or to allow a patient’s
life to expire without at-
tempting a standard medical
intervention.

I personally, am appauled at the decision not to take in the medical treatments of today.... I believe that the Bible does not teach what the jehovah witnesses believe...and there is even dissent from within the Jehovah Witness Church....but at the same time, we can not force someone to take medical treatment.

This is not about Church beliefs or freedom of religion, the case is about self determination...

Care

 

[AllieBaba]

The question that haunts me, and should be haunting everybody before they leap to the attack, is...did the parents realize how sick the kid was? If they realized how sick she was and then made a conscious decision to offer up only prayer for her recovery, then there's a case against them.

If they DIDN'T realize (which seems perfectly possible) and just thought she was sick in a regular way, and she took an unexpected turn for the worse that's a different story.

I don't know how many people I've talked to this year whose children have ended up in the hospital suddenly and unexpectedly with weird things. Scarlet fever is back! And I've talked to three people in the last 2 weeks who have either landed in the hospital with staph infections of the blood which resulted in pnemonia and almost killed them....

Very weird. I think the viruses are winning.

 

[Angel Heart]

These are not JW's. They are a private church in Oregon City. This is just one of many questionable deaths. Most women dieing of a treatable infection after childbirth.

 

[Angel Heart]

The question that haunts me, and should be haunting everybody before they leap to the attack, is...did the parents realize how sick the kid was? If they realized how sick she was and then made a conscious decision to offer up only prayer for her recovery, then there's a case against them.

If they DIDN'T realize (which seems perfectly possible) and just thought she was sick in a regular way, and she took an unexpected turn for the worse that's a different story.

I don't know how many people I've talked to this year whose children have ended up in the hospital suddenly and unexpectedly with weird things. Scarlet fever is back! And I've talked to three people in the last 2 weeks who have either landed in the hospital with staph infections of the blood which resulted in pnemonia and almost killed them....

Very weird. I think the viruses are winning.

Scarlet fever never went any where... It's been here along... It's a form of strep throat. It's completely treatable with antibiotics.

http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/infections/bacterial_viral/scarlet_fever.html

I know this because each of my kids have had it. Only reason it effected Helen Keller in the way it did, was due to the lack of antibiotics.

 

[Care4all]

These are not JW's. They are a private church in Oregon City. This is just one of many questionable deaths. Most women dieing of a treatable infection after childbirth.

As I said in my post, this is not a decision of freedom of religion though it is being "played" that way....

This is a decision of "self determination"....

Anyone, has a right to refuse medical care....according to our laws....is what I am gathering?


care

 

[nibor]

The question that haunts me, and should be haunting everybody before they leap to the attack, is...did the parents realize how sick the kid was? If they realized how sick she was and then made a conscious decision to offer up only prayer for her recovery, then there's a case against them.

If they DIDN'T realize (which seems perfectly possible) and just thought she was sick in a regular way, and she took an unexpected turn for the worse that's a different story.

I don't know how many people I've talked to this year whose children have ended up in the hospital suddenly and unexpectedly with weird things. Scarlet fever is back! And I've talked to three people in the last 2 weeks who have either landed in the hospital with staph infections of the blood which resulted in pnemonia and almost killed them....

Very weird. I think the viruses are winning.

There are more than plenty natural means of healing, that could've and should've been explored....................instead of being dumb enough to depend on devined intervention!!!!!!!!

 

[Angel Heart]

It comes down to if you have the right to refuse care for a child. Does the child deserve to be protected until adulthood when they can make that choice for themselves?

 

[BrianH]

It comes down to if you have the right to refuse care for a child. Does the child deserve to be protected until adulthood when they can make that choice for themselves?

That's a good point...never thought of it like that.
YOu could almost group this with CPS and the fact that they can remove a child if he/she is being neglected or treated improperly.

 

[nibor]

It comes down to if you have the right to refuse care for a child. Does the child deserve to be protected until adulthood when they can make that choice for themselves?

So you're saying the VILLAGE should raise the child...................BZZZZT THE VILLAGE SUCKS...............parents have to be held responsible for their actions................period, you can't protect everyone.

people die everyday.....................sometimes by mistakes also by the medical practioners.................it's a shame but shit happens!!!!!!!

 

[AllieBaba]

Scarlet fever never went any where... It's been here along... It's a form of strep throat. It's completely treatable with antibiotics.

http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/infections/bacterial_viral/scarlet_fever.html

I know this because each of my kids have had it. Only reason it effected Helen Keller in the way it did, was due to the lack of antibiotics.

It's completely treatable...IF YOU HAVE IT DIAGNOSED, or recognize the potential for harm.

Antibiotics are not the magical cure-all people have been lulled into thinking they are. Kids die every day of "treatable", and treated, diseases. Women still die during and after child birth. Antibiotics are great and definitely our lives have been improved and extended because of them. But don't think everyone who gets sick can be "cured" if they just take prescribed meds.

 

[nibor]

Oh by all means TAKE YOUR MEDS kiddies..........................they may also strip your immune system but take them anyway...................probably part of their reasoning on divined intervention.

 

[Care4all]

It comes down to if you have the right to refuse care for a child. Does the child deserve to be protected until adulthood when they can make that choice for themselves?

I was going to say that too...but then i thought, no hospital will administer a needed surgery or medical care for a child WITHOUT the parents permission...no aspirin will be given to a child at school WITHOUT the parents permission....

So, it has been established ALREADY that parents have the pwer or responsibility of managing their children's healthcare, NOT the government or the hospital.

This is what happened with the JW's that refused a blood transfusion for their son that would have saved his life...court ruled "self determination" allowed them to make the decision, with no interference of others...and they were the parents of this child, who had the authority of self determination, in their hands, for their child, as guardians....is the way I read it?

care

 

[nibor]

Oh and Jillian your disingenuous propagandist personna is showing...............and quite telling

 

[AllieBaba]

It's a hard one because ultimately, there's no "proof" that any illness or disease will be cured with treatment. Sometimes it doesn't work.

There's a good reason schools don't administer aspirin to children at school. Reye's Syndrome. Certain kids die if they take aspirin. I had a cousin die that way. He came home from school, told him mom he had a headache. She gave him an aspirin, and he laid down on the couch and when she checked him a little later, he was dead.

If she had been a fundamentalist Christian maybe they would have prayed for cessation of pain, and he'd still be alive today.

 

[Care4all]

It's a hard one because ultimately, there's no "proof" that any illness or disease will be cured with treatment. Sometimes it doesn't work.

There's a good reason schools don't administer aspirin to children at school. Reye's Syndrome. Certain kids die if they take aspirin. I had a cousin die that way. He came home from school, told him mom he had a headache. She gave him an aspirin, and he laid down on the couch and when she checked him a little later, he was dead.

If she had been a fundamentalist Christian maybe they would have prayed for cessation of pain, and he'd still be alive today.

am sorry to hear about your cousin....his mom was probably devasted...

Care

 

[BrianH]

This is difficult because we're looking at it objectively. Most of us would take our children to get help if the situation was dire. Or give their kid a tylenol if they were running fever. I would be dead right now if it weren't for modern medical techonology, there are many of you who know this feeling.

I ask myself, what if it was one of my little cousins, or nieces? Should I respect the far-out view of my uncles and aunts? OR take it upon myself to "kidnap" the girl and take her to a hospital. The parents are obviously being charged, so it may have been the right thing to do.

 

[AllieBaba]

This is difficult because we're looking at it objectively. Most of us would take our children to get help if the situation was dire. Or give their kid a tylenol if they were running fever. I would be dead right now if it weren't for modern medical techonology, there are many of you who know this feeling.

I ask myself, what if it was one of my little cousins, or nieces? Should I respect the far-out view of my uncles and aunts? OR take it upon myself to "kidnap" the girl and take her to a hospital. The parents are obviously being charged, so it may have been the right thing to do.

Think how horrible it would be if you "kidnapped" her and she died anyway.

 

[BrianH]

Think how horrible it would be if you "kidnapped" her and she died anyway.

Touche....

I couldn't just sit by and watch a child die because of the parents refusing medical treatment.

The question is not about the individual's right to refuse...but if the individual has the right to refuse for their child. If the parents are being charged, then there must be something to it. Children are protected under the law. I see no difference (under law) between someone letting their child die, or someone having their kids taken away from them by the state because of poor living conditions, neglect, abuse, etc...

I know what Care4all is talking about in regards to the JW...but I'm curious if it was more of of an individual refusing treatment, or and individual refusing treatment for their kids? If you know, that information would be appreciated.