Failure of the Welfare State

[naturegirl]

Here are some FACTS for you on what the War on Poverty.

When President Kennedy's brother-in law Sargent Shriver accepted President Johnson's challenge and took on the 'War on Poverty' the first thing he discovered was rather startling and disturbing. Half of the Americans living in poverty were children. Another large segment were elderly and another segment were mentally and/or physically disabled. So a HUGE segment of the poor fit the TRUE definition of a dependent. So there is an obligation as a civil society to make sure those real dependents are not trampled on or extinguished.

To address some of the players in your fairy tale, voila! We have an unabashed flaming liberal...Sargent Shriver. But I hate to disappoint you. Sargent Shriver hated welfare and had no intention of creating a handout program. He didn't believe in handouts, he believed in community action, opportunity, responsibility, and empowerment.

The 'War on Poverty' was called the Office of Economic Opportunity. The core principles were opportunity, responsibility, community and empowerment. The program's goal was maximum feasible participation. One of the concepts of empowerment was poor people had a right to one-third of the seats on every local poverty program board. It was a community based program that focused on education as the keys to the city. Programs such as VISTA, Job Corps, Community Action Program, and Head Start were created to increase opportunity for the poor so they could pull themselves out of poverty with a hand UP, not a hand out. Even when Johnson effectively pulled the plug on the War on Poverty to fund the war in Vietnam, Shriver fought on and won. During the Shriver years more Americans got out of poverty than during any similar time in our history. (The Clinton years - employing the same philosophy - were the second best.) Ref

Here is one of the agencies created by the WOP...

Job Corps is a program administered by the United States Department of Labor that offers free-of-charge education and vocational training to youth ages 16 to 24.

Job Corps offers career planning, on-the-job training, job placement, residential housing, food service, driver's education, basic health and dental care, a bi-weekly basic living allowance and clothing allowance. Some centers offer childcare programs for single parents as well.

Besides vocational training, the Job Corps program also offers academic training, including basic reading and math, GED attainment, college preparatory, and Limited English Proficiency courses. Some centers also offer programs that allow students to remain in residence at their center while attending college.[citation needed] Job Corps provides career counseling and transition support to its students for up to one year after they graduate from the program.

Career paths

Career paths offered by Job Corps include:

Advanced manufacturing

Communication design
Drafting
Electronic assembly
Machine appliance repair
Machining
Welding
Manufacturing technology
Sign, billboard, and display

Automotive and machine repair

Automobile technician
General services technician
Collision repair and refinish
Heavy construction equipment mechanic
Diesel mechanic
Medium/heavy truck repair
Electronics tech
Stationary engineering

Construction

Bricklaying
Carpentry
Cement masonry
Concrete and terrazzo
Construction craft laborer
Electrical
Electrical overhead line
Facilities maintenance
Floor covering
Glazing
HVAC
Industrial engineering technician
Licensed electrician (bilingual)
Mechanical engineering technician
Painting
Plastering
Plumbing
Roto-Rooter plumbing
Tile setting

Extension programs

Advanced Career Training (ACT)
General Educational Development (GED)
Commercial driver's license (CDL)
Off-Center Training (OCT Program)
High school diploma (HSD Program)

Finance and Business

Accounting services
Business management
Clerical occupations
Legal secretary
Insurance and financial services
Marketing
Medical insurance specialist
Office administration
Paralegal
Purchasing

Health care/allied health professions

Clinical medical assistant
Dental assistant
EKG technician
Emergency medical technician
Exercise/massage therapy
Hemodialysis technician
Licensed practical/vocational nurse
Medical office support
Nurse assistant/home health aide
Opticianry
Pharmacy technician
Phlebotomy
Physical therapy assistant
Rehabilitation therapy
Rehabilitation technician
Registered nurse
Respiratory therapy
Sterile processing
Surgical technician

Homeland security

Corrections officer
Seamanship
Security and protective services

Hospitality

Culinary arts
Hotel and lodging

Information technology

A+ Microsoft MSCE
Computer Networking/Cisco
Computer systems administrator
Computer support specialist
Computer technician
Integrated system tech
Network cable installation
Visual communications

Renewable resources and energy

Forest conservation and urban forestry
Firefighting
Wastewater
Landscaping

Retail sales and services

Behavioral health aide
Criminal justice
Child development
Residential advisor
Cosmetology
Retail sales

Transportation

Asphalt paving
Material and distribution operations
Clerical occupations
Heavy equipment operations
Roustabout operator
Heavy truck driving
TCU administrative clerk

I am a result of this Jobs program.........where the heck is it now?? Nope, not happening anymore. Just let them stay home and eat stale cake. Forget about them helping themselves, it's just easier for the government to give them handouts instead of bettering themselves. Generational welfare is a learned behavior. They have been taught well.

The war on poverty worked for a while, not so much anymore.

How did the decades of intergenerational poverty happen in Africa? or India? Not much in the way of government handouts there.

How come poverty is worse there than here?

Nice way to divert your own post. I thought we were talking about America and the success of the Jobs Program, how it actually gave people skills to get off the government dole. Not what happens in Africa.

 

[Neotrotsky]

What new programs have the NAACP and Obama introduced to provide a vehicle that could take people out of poverty?

There appears to be a need by Democrats to keep success from poor and uneducated groups whose income is the Government.
This group is nothing but a democratic tool that exploits poor people as part of a political agenda.

I agree, but it's not like the GOP is offereing alternatives. Those aren't their voters, they don't care.

The fact they are pushing more people into the poor is what their problem is.

Well, we know things can't go on forever
No matter how the left likes to pretend it can

Alternatives
sure there are some out there

I do find a Negative Income Tax with a flat rate to be interesting
and a less harmful income tax scheme. Though, I would like to do more research in to
it....before committing myself to it

-good
get rid of the bureaucratic monsters
takes a lot of power out of the hands of politicians
-bad
It would require a lot of gov't supervision in order to avoid fraud

 

[JoeB131]

Well, we know things can't go on forever
No matter how the left likes to pretend it can

Alternatives
sure there are some out there

I do find a Negative Income Tax with a flat rate to be interesting
and a less harmful income tax scheme. Though, I would like to do more research in to
it....before committing myself to it

-good
get rid of the bureaucratic monsters
takes a lot of power out of the hands of politicians
-bad
It would require a lot of gov't supervision in order to avoid fraud

You know, I got to wonder where you guys live where the government bureaucrat is popping out of every bush to make your life miserable.

Because, honestly, other than my once a four year trip to the DMV, I have very little interaction with governmetn officials in my life. Almost none on the federal level, and when I do have to get something out of them, they're usually pretty helpful. (Such as when I needed paperwork from the VA for my home loan 8 years ago.)

 

[Neotrotsky]

Well you have never seen oxygen
but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist

Try holding your breath sees what happens

 

[Gadawg73]

Can't you do your own work
Liberals are so lazy

Please if you have something else show me

Do you think it was less or more

So you made that number up.

...this is my shocked face...

He's about half right. There was a decline in Poverty between 1950 and 1960... but what he fails to acknowledge is why.

Poverty in United States during 1950s

The economy of United States during 1950s recorded a high level of prosperity due to consumer demand and high government spending. The middle class were highly benefited from the rising income and they began to move towards suburbs. The general prosperity in United States did not touch all sections of society. As the middle class whites moved from the cities, they left behind poor people and deteriorated infrastructure.

There was NOT high government BORROWING in the 50s and at NO TIME comparable to now.
We borrow 40 % OF ALL WE SPEND NOW.

That did not happen in the 50s.

 

[Gadawg73]

Well, we know things can't go on forever
No matter how the left likes to pretend it can

Alternatives
sure there are some out there

I do find a Negative Income Tax with a flat rate to be interesting
and a less harmful income tax scheme. Though, I would like to do more research in to
it....before committing myself to it

-good
get rid of the bureaucratic monsters
takes a lot of power out of the hands of politicians
-bad
It would require a lot of gov't supervision in order to avoid fraud

You know, I got to wonder where you guys live where the government bureaucrat is popping out of every bush to make your life miserable.

Because, honestly, other than my once a four year trip to the DMV, I have very little interaction with governmetn officials in my life. Almost none on the federal level, and when I do have to get something out of them, they're usually pretty helpful. (Such as when I needed paperwork from the VA for my home loan 8 years ago.)

You union guys never have government interaction.
You cause more government rules and regulations for the very employers you bad mouth.
They do the work for you.

 

[Moonglow]

to stay on welfare one must get a job or train for one

 

[Neotrotsky]

Unless you have a child below a certain age
like here in the People's republic of New York

 

[NYcarbineer]

What new programs have the NAACP and Obama introduced to provide a vehicle that could take people out of poverty?

There appears to be a need by Democrats to keep success from poor and uneducated groups whose income is the Government.
This group is nothing but a democratic tool that exploits poor people as part of a political agenda.

I agree, but it's not like the GOP is offereing alternatives. Those aren't their voters, they don't care.

The fact they are pushing more people into the poor is what their problem is.

Well, we know things can't go on forever
No matter how the left likes to pretend it can

Alternatives
sure there are some out there

I do find a Negative Income Tax with a flat rate to be interesting
and a less harmful income tax scheme. Though, I would like to do more research in to
it....before committing myself to it

-good
get rid of the bureaucratic monsters
takes a lot of power out of the hands of politicians
-bad
It would require a lot of gov't supervision in order to avoid fraud

The EIC is already in place as a version of the negative income tax, and most conservatives hate it. In fact the conservative consensus around here, to the extent its any indicator,

is that it's a problem that half of American households currently pay no federal income tax.

Logically that would mean that most conservatives would want to raise taxes on low income Americans.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Africa and India

Because they don't promote real free markets systems enough

What does that even mean? jeezus you people

 

[Neotrotsky]

Too funny

a good example of what is wrong with the left

 

[NYcarbineer]

When is some conservative here going to post his or her solution to the poverty problems in this country.

We know this so far:

You want to end all the programs associated with the war on poverty, the welfare state, etc.

Then what?

Then, for example, where does the poor kid get medical treatment that can no longer be paid for with Medicaid, now that you the conservative have ended Medicaid?

Let's hear how that kid's life and health gets better under YOUR plan? Because after all, you do have a plan that is better than the current 'welfare state' right?

What a flat out LIE!

Medicare and Medicaid have both been cut to the bone.

Medicare barely covers the true cost of health care.
Medicaid NEVER covers the true cost of health care.

FACT: Many doctors won't even take on Medicare or Medicaid patients.

So you're arguing that CUTS to the 'welfare state' are responsible for worsening poverty numbers?

lol. Your conservative pals won't like you anymore.

 

[Samson]

Africa and India

Because they don't promote real free markets systems enough

What does that even mean? jeezus you people

Few USMB members understand that it is better to not say anything at all, and keep everyone guessing that they're an idiot, than to post and remove all doubt.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Again

in your opinion but since you think
Papa Obama is doing a good job
it means little

Unlike you. I'm just stating facts like
that before the Great Society

Blacks had a lower divorce rate and lower illegitimate rate than whites


Truth is hard for the Left
In fact, it is their worst enemy

And before Reagan there was little or no AID's or crack cocaine in this country.

Sure I will blame Reagan for that
if you agree the Great Society is the biggest factor in increasing black divorce and
the illegitimate rate

I don't blame Reagan for either. Correlation does not prove causation.

Let's hear your argument that Reagan caused the AIDS and crack cocaine epidemics.

 

[Neotrotsky]

True enough Correlation does not prove causation.

As such, then no doubt we can cut down on the Great Society spending
since it will have no effect

 

[NYcarbineer]

True enough Correlation does not prove causation.

As such, then no doubt we can cut down on the Great Society spending
since it will have no effect

I think I asked you how much we should cut Medicaid and foodstamps by,

and how much that would serve to make the poor less poor.

Did you answer?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Too funny

a good example of what is wrong with the left

The welfare states of the world have lower poverty rates than the non-welfare states of the world,

don't they, on average?

Explain that.

 

[Samson]

Too funny

a good example of what is wrong with the left

The welfare states of the world have lower poverty rates than the non-welfare states of the world,

don't they, on average?

Explain that.

You want me to explain that statistics can be manipulated?

Really?

There are Lies.

There are Damn Lies.

There are Statistics.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Too funny

a good example of what is wrong with the left

The welfare states of the world have lower poverty rates than the non-welfare states of the world,

don't they, on average?

Explain that.

You want me to explain that statistics can be manipulated?

Really?

There are Lies.

There are Damn Lies.

There are Statistics.

Did you take the OP to task on that, given that the entire original premise of this thread is based on statistics?

I'm guessing, no, you didn't.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Too funny

a good example of what is wrong with the left

The welfare states of the world have lower poverty rates than the non-welfare states of the world,

don't they, on average?

Explain that.

You want me to explain that statistics can be manipulated?

Really?

There are Lies.

There are Damn Lies.

There are Statistics.

Can you name the countries in the world that cannot be classified as 'welfare states'?