F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[Indofred]

Another reason the F35 is a pup.

Vintage planes used in Vietnam helped US special forces fight ISIS

Two vintage planes used in the Vietnam War have been brought out of retirement to help US special forces in Iraq.

A pair of OV-10 Broncos completed 120 combat missions over the Middle East between May and September last year, it has been revealed.

The turbo-prop jet is thought to have carried out 134 sorties over 82 days in May, acting as cover for the soldiers fighting ISIS terrorists on the ground.

The reasons given...

Whereas an F-15 can cost up to $40,000 per flight, a Bronco can operate for just $1,000 for every hour it is in the air.

Technology is wonderful, but not always needed to get a job done. The F35 is, in my humble opinion, a massive error.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Another reason the F35 is a pup.

Vintage planes used in Vietnam helped US special forces fight ISIS

Two vintage planes used in the Vietnam War have been brought out of retirement to help US special forces in Iraq.

A pair of OV-10 Broncos completed 120 combat missions over the Middle East between May and September last year, it has been revealed.

The turbo-prop jet is thought to have carried out 134 sorties over 82 days in May, acting as cover for the soldiers fighting ISIS terrorists on the ground.

The reasons given...

Whereas an F-15 can cost up to $40,000 per flight, a Bronco can operate for just $1,000 for every hour it is in the air.

Technology is wonderful, but not always needed to get a job done. The F35 is, in my humble opinion, a massive error.

That was the OV-10s mission in a nutshell. If you use the D model, it carries a 20mm gun. If you are using the D+ model, You get 4 Miniguns. And rockets and two Aim9s on the wing. It's just enough for the mission.

We also had a few get into Sandy when the other resources weren't available. Again,. just enough.

The A-10 is just too much. Way overkill. It's a single seater and ID mistakes do happen. When they do happen some friendlies get shot up pretty bad. If you want a different take on things, just ask the Ground Brits who have been on the receiving end of an A-10 attack. The Mission for the A-10 never happened. It was designed to kill tanks in rolling hills green landscape. It's like swatting flies with a 9lb sledge and then wondering where all the holes in the walls came from

 

[Indofred]

The whole point being, the massive cost of the 'superfighter' is a pointless waste of time when a small, cheap aircraft can do the job at a fraction of the cost, and probably better anyway.
Apart from all the technical issues with the F35, the cost is stupidity when you consider you get sod all gain for the cash you've spent.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The whole point being, the massive cost of the 'superfighter' is a pointless waste of time when a small, cheap aircraft can do the job at a fraction of the cost, and probably better anyway.
Apart from all the technical issues with the F35, the cost is stupidity when you consider you get sod all gain for the cash you've spent.

That smaller cheaper bird can only do a portion of the job required. And that would be the part where the A-10 is doing a fair job. Meanwhile, the OV-10 was invented to fly the CAS and Sandy missions. It was also designed to do the Forward Air Controller mission which takes an AC with NO weapons but the second Crewman and fantastic ability to go medium, speed with the ability to see the ground and being able to loiter for long periods. This only works AFTER things are neutralized in the Air and the Radar Sites are taken down.

Funny, those same requirements also apply to the A-10 making it not really worth the money to keep it flying. The USAF got hurt the worst when it gave it's A-1Es away and sold it's OV10s for 2,400 bucks each. Next went the A-7s. Finally, there went the AT-37. USAF was stripped of it's CAS and Sandy leaving an actual mission for the A-10 which lost it's intended mission when the wall fell. USAF has always wanted a replacement AC for that mission but Congress has fought them for the last almost 20 years.

Meanwhile, the Marines, kept their OV-10s and still fly the AH-1 Chopper and are able to hold their own. But they still require Radar Birds from the Navy. What they hope to get from the F-35Bs is the jamming and stealth. Not ground attack of any kind. The fact that it can shoot missiles and drop JDAMS is a huge plus. The upgrades now being done on the F-35A will also be installed into the B and C. Just like many of the systems have already been installed into the F-22 making it someones worst nightmare.

The gripes that are done against the F-35A are true about only the B and the two test versions. What we are seeing is the coming of age of the F-35 across the board. The F-4, F-15, F-16 and F-22 all had the same things said about them while they matured AFTER they went operational. Lumping the F-35 into the that family is actually a family is a pretty good bunch to be compared to in the same time frame.

The only other option would be a huge cost. Put the F-22 back into production benefiting from the work already done on the F-35. But at over 200M per copy, the US would have to go it alone without the financial aid from the other countries progged to get the F-35.

By replacing A-10 Units one by one, that gets around Congress and gets the job done. But it still leave a gap in CAS and Sandy. And, believe it or not, until something simpler and cheaper comes along (like arming the T-6s already in service or buying the AT-6) the B-1 and B-52 will fill in that mission. Or we can buy back the OV-10s or take them from Davis Mauthen AFB until a suitable bird can be found.

 

[Manonthestreet]

After 15 years of development and billions of dollars of investment, software glitches continue to hamper Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II operations and in one case, just one of six US Air Force F-35As on a mock deployment to Mountain Home AFB in Idaho were able to takeoff during an alert launch exercise. F-35 chief considers fix for troubling Block 3i software faults

 

[williepete]

We should drop the F-35 and go with the other fighter we have in development.

Oh, wait...

 

[Manonthestreet]

Whole purpose of continuing the F-35 by Obama was exactly that...your naval air is shot........take your carriers and park em

 

[there4eyeM]

Carriers are the battleships of WWII.

 

[alpine]

Another reason the F35 is a pup.

Vintage planes used in Vietnam helped US special forces fight ISIS

Two vintage planes used in the Vietnam War have been brought out of retirement to help US special forces in Iraq.

A pair of OV-10 Broncos completed 120 combat missions over the Middle East between May and September last year, it has been revealed.

The turbo-prop jet is thought to have carried out 134 sorties over 82 days in May, acting as cover for the soldiers fighting ISIS terrorists on the ground.

The reasons given...

Whereas an F-15 can cost up to $40,000 per flight, a Bronco can operate for just $1,000 for every hour it is in the air.

Technology is wonderful, but not always needed to get a job done. The F35 is, in my humble opinion, a massive error.

ISIS is not a strategic rival for the US.

It is Russia and China, you are competing with.

A stealth technology that the navy can use, is a useless technology for the US, since the US projection of power highly depended on the Navy, more then anything...

However I dont think F35 is the right way to bring the stealth technology into the Navy.
There are much efficient alternative platforms to do the job imo.

 

[there4eyeM]

Many, small and cheap is the strategic order of the day. Big, expensive and few is catastrophe waiting to happen.

 

[alpine]

Many, small and cheap is the strategic order of the day. Big, expensive and few is catastrophe waiting to happen.

Exactly.

Just like in the WWII, quantity always beat quality...

 

[there4eyeM]

Well, the Garand was not inferior to German or any other rifles, but it certainly provided much more tactical firepower than the enemy. In general, though, the firstest and mostest principle is fairly sound. Having a lot of something good enough is a safe bet.
Remember, the best is the enemy of the good.

 

[alpine]

T34 and M4 were inferior to German tanks, but sheer numbers prevailed, as always.

Same goes with the air superiority.

First nation to deploy cheaply made and easily managed sheer number of stealth drones, will rule the skies for at least a century, looks like...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

T34 and M4 were inferior to German tanks, but sheer numbers prevailed, as always.

Same goes with the air superiority.

First nation to deploy cheaply made and easily managed sheer number of stealth drones, will rule the skies for at least a century, looks like...

The problem with this is you depend on the 4 to one kill ratio. It might have been true when you started but the enemy doesn't always cooperate. With the few F-22s we have, the F-15 is going to be going in on those missions with a 1 to one kill ratio against the SU-30+ fighters. You never want a 1 to 1 ratio. You want a 4 to one or better. Your enemy will have to out produce you by at least 4 times for parity. So which is best? Easy answer. Both are. Right now, the US has the advantage but Russia and China are trying to play catchup.

 

[I amso IR]

Which is exactly the reasoning with the F35. It is a standoff platform which brings a high kill ratio to the scenario. Then the 15, 16 or what ever are on an even playing field. The problems it, the 35 face are computerization not airframe. Think about the evolution of Microsoft Windows. All these years and it still stumbles. All these years later and compared to the system for the 35 it is a beginners program. The airplane fly's and does it well. Folks say it was beaten by a 35 year old 16. That may be so, but it is also false to say that it was truly beaten. The aircraft has not been approved to or allowed to be put through it's true paces yet. The computer is so complex and critical to aircraft survival that it cannot be turned loose for fear of the computer going bonkers from over load and shutting down. Think Obama Care and the hoops it went through for the lack of a trusted system. When operational, that bird will beat all comers hands down. When the J20's, MIG's and SU30's start falling before they even know there is a 35 over the horizon busting them in the ass, the truth will be known. Why go one on one when you can do 1 on five and then let the older fast movers mop up, the 22 included. If Barney Rubble and crew ever learn to program a computer, that is. The point is that the computer pak needs to be able to do more tricks than a monkey can do on a mile of grapevines. The airframe is fine even with the original engine. The upgrade will make it even better. And I will venture a guess that the cost over run will be a gift horse down the road. Like good wine, it will get better with age and the knowledge gained from the 35 will out pace anything that anyone else can produce which will help unmanned vehicle programs exponentially in computerization alone. If you want to bitch at someone, bitch at Microsoft, the product you keep buying even though it still sucks, after all these years.

 

[HenryBHough]

Terror, turkey or turd?

I'll get to see for myself at Farnborough in July.

F35 is supposed (once more) to be there.

If it does show up, flies, and performs well it could be a terror to an enemy.

If it shows up but doesn't fly, turkey.

If, like last time, it's a no-show.....then turd.

 

[I amso IR]

Terror, turkey or turd?

I'll get to see for myself at Farnborough in July.

F35 is supposed (once more) to be there.

If it does show up, flies, and performs well it could be a terror to an enemy.

If it shows up but doesn't fly, turkey.

If, like last time, it's a no-show.....then turd.

You mentioned that a few weeks ago. Bring back a bunch of pictures so we can all see. Also you might want to read the article below. Again, another computer support system problem. If, and that is one huge if, if the computer pukes can get their acts aligned much bad press could be avoided. Not a hell of a lot has changed since Valley Forge with the exception of mule trains. They could be counted on.

Could Connectivity Failure Ground F-35? It's Complicated
Lara Seligman, Defense News 4:01 a.m. EDT April 29, 2016
TWEET 77 LINKEDIN 3 COMMENTEMAILMORE
WASHINGTON — The F-35 joint program office and a top government watchdog are butting heads about a key question for the joint strike fighter: whether or not the fifth-generation plane can fly if disconnected from a key logistics system.

At the center of the debate is the Autonomics Logistics and Information System (ALIS), an internal diagnostic system that tracks the health of each part of each plane worldwide. ALIS is no stranger to controversy, with top program officials identifying it as the last hurdle to declaring the US Air Force jets operational on time this year.

Now a new report by the Government Accountability Office (GAO) identifies a new ALIS-related concern — that if a single ALIS server were to go down, whether from loss of electricity or sabotage, it could cripple the entire F-35 fleet.

"Users are concerned that ALIS’ current design results in all F-35 data produced across the fleet to be routed up to the Central Point of Entry and then to the Autonomic Logistics Operating Unit, with no backup system or redundancy,” according to the April GAO report. “If either of these fail, it could take the entire F-35 fleet offline.”

But JPO chief Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan disagrees, telling reporters last week after testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee there is “absolutely” no truth to the claim that a failure to connect to ALIS could ground the fleet.

The differing views of the program office and the GAO over ALIS reflect the ongoing challenges of the F-35 program, and the fleet's logistics system in particular. ALIS is by far the most integrated and complex fleet management system in the US military today, but advances in technology often give rise to new challenges — and without a clear precedent from previous systems, both sides have legitimate arguments to fall back on.

 

[Cruz-Clinton]

Thinker no USAF or only F-35 under 2500 pcs in Defense or a guerilla Army are 3rd best.

 

[Manonthestreet]

F-35 only has front aspect stealth.....F-35 will be falling from the sky as SU's shoot down on your low and slow gadget that still cant respond in an alert DRILL.....

 

[Indofred]

Many, small and cheap is the strategic order of the day. Big, expensive and few is catastrophe waiting to happen.

Pretty much guaranteed.
One flaw or chink in its armour, and the whole fleet is compromised.