EV's Fuel Cost 3 Times Less Than Gas

[RGR]

The problem isn't fuel cost. Never been the argument.

So the argument is the lower lifecycle cost? The less emissions benefit? The economic benefit of using American produced and distributed fuels and the advantage this leads to in a foreign policy sense? The increased quiet of EVs over their fire breathing brethren? The morally questionable aspect of demanding a mode of transport fueled by the same stuff our parents used which somehow requires us to be as wasteful of valuable feedstock and environmentally ignorant!!

Now I am confused, if those things don't matter, what is the argument?

The argument is the same as it is in the hundreds of threads where hypocrites who don't actually own one of these cars tell everyone else to buy one.

Haven't seen much of that. Certainly I tell everyone to buy one, but I also own one. Maybe you are referring to another forum where everyone who doesn't own one tells everyone to buy one?

 

[mamooth]

What's going to happen if the lefte dream world becomes a reality and there are 255 Million electric passenger vehicles humming along? What happens when the power grid can't take the pressure of juicing all those cars?.

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

U.S. Finds Electric Power Grid Can Fuel Fleets of Plug-In Cars - Preview
---
WASHINGTON -- The nation's existing electric power grid could fuel as many as 180 million electric cars, a Department of Energy study estimates.
---

Oops. Guess the sky isn't falling. Unless you live in Whitehall's leftist dream world and think that 255 million electric cars will instantly all appear at once.

 

[Politico]

What do you own RGR? Pics? And when did you stop driving gas vehicles?

 

[westwall]

.
Republicans prefer-----prefer to pay higher fuel costs, while simultaneously forcing taxpayers and energy consumers to fund both sides of the War On Terror, then-----then they have the audacity to call themselves fiscal conservatives -pewsh!-


Ever wonder how fueling a gasoline car compares in cost to fueling a plug-in electric car? At this week's annual Electric Drive Transportation Association (EDTA) conference in Washington, D.C., the Department of Energy’s David Danielson announced a handy new web tool called eGallon that allows you to do just that. The site shows that on average in the U.S., it costs $3.65 per gallon in gasoline to fuel a car and the equivalent of only $1.14 per gallon to fuel a car with electricity.

The Mayor of Indianapolis Is Electrifying his City
.

That's great. Hopefully the vehicle will last long enough to make back the difference from the initial outlay. Then of course there is the toxic battery pack when it is used up. Plus...well you get it...there's no such thing as a free lunch.

When you guys realize that you will be on the road to recovery.

 

[RGR]

What do you own RGR? Pics? And when did you stop driving gas vehicles?

A Volt. And I still drive gas vehicles, I use an econobox on road trips, and both a scooter and motorcycle for "fun" around town.

 

[flacaltenn]

What's going to happen if the lefte dream world becomes a reality and there are 255 Million electric passenger vehicles humming along? What happens when the power grid can't take the pressure of juicing all those cars?.

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

U.S. Finds Electric Power Grid Can Fuel Fleets of Plug-In Cars - Preview
---
WASHINGTON -- The nation's existing electric power grid could fuel as many as 180 million electric cars, a Department of Energy study estimates.
---

Oops. Guess the sky isn't falling. Unless you live in Whitehall's leftist dream world and think that 255 million electric cars will instantly all appear at once.

That's simply not true.. Perhaps the WIRES might be able to CARRY the power (except to the major cities where it's needed) but the GENERATION capacity is FAR from being able to cope with 180Mill vehicles. Especially not with the larger batterypacks reqd and the faster charging times that consumers will demand.

Even a puny LEAF has a capacity of 29KWhr. Filling that every 2nd day (for a measly 75 mile range) would add 50% to a households energy requirement. In an era where we are trying to prune 5 and 10% of grid capacity by scolding people about conservation, this ain't even plausible..

FAST CHARGING a puny EV like the Leaf in 20 minutes would suck the equivalent load of about 90 homes !!!!!

You need to buy the rest of that article so we can determine wtf they are claiming..

My bet is a puff propaganda piece that assumes the GRID can carry that load or that NO OTHER loads exist when folks charge their vehicles..

 

[whitehall]

The manufacture of gigantic haz-mat batteries don't seem to enter into the pleasant green orientated equation. I think coal mining companies have the black lung problem licked but what's going to happen in the heavy metal factories and I ain't talking about bands when exposure to lead and mercury becomes an issue? That's easy, make them in China. What is the base line cost for setting up charging stations? The left coast has experienced spectacular brownouts in the summer in recent years. Will greenie families have to risk an unexpected layover in a hostile town until the grid catches up? It might make a good hollywood plot.

 

[flacaltenn]

The manufacture of gigantic haz-mat batteries don't seem to enter into the pleasant green orientated equation. I think coal mining companies have the black lung problem licked but what's going to happen in the heavy metal factories and I ain't talking about bands when exposure to lead and mercury becomes an issue? That's easy, make them in China. What is the base line cost for setting up charging stations? The left coast has experienced spectacular brownouts in the summer in recent years. Will greenie families have to risk an unexpected layover in a hostile town until the grid catches up? It might make a good hollywood plot.

Mammooth says that Cali has enough excess energy to charge 25Mill EVs....

That's why companies are being lined up in brown-out priority.. Because Cali has so much excess electricity and grid capacity.

 

[Politico]

What do you own RGR? Pics? And when did you stop driving gas vehicles?

A Volt. And I still drive gas vehicles, I use an econobox on road trips, and both a scooter and motorcycle for "fun" around town.

Case and point.

 

[RGR]

What do you own RGR? Pics? And when did you stop driving gas vehicles?

A Volt. And I still drive gas vehicles, I use an econobox on road trips, and both a scooter and motorcycle for "fun" around town.

Case and point.

That would depend on what point you were trying to make? It strikes me at this point in time in the cycle of development of electrical transport that they area niche machine for early adopters, or gizmo freaks like myself. Excellent for a secondary commuting transport, not as much for a primary vehicle. Need a garage for it, not something all places have, and there are range anxiety and battery life issues to be overcome, both at a practical and perspective level.

But the longer I live with mine, the more I like it, the more I am willing to conform to what EV transport requires (give me free fuel please, can I plug into your building while I am doing business here?!), the more it becomes obvious that this thing has gasoline and the problems that come with it beat for a suburban lifestyle.

Sure, it won't tow a horse trailer for some rural folks, but for the 75% of Americans with a commute of less than 40 miles a day where the only thing being moved is a person, this thing rocks. I use an econobox for road trips primarily because hauling around all the extra weight of the battery makes the Volt less efficient compared to a 1.6L 4 cylinder without those extra hundreds of pounds. But I wouldn't hesitate to take the Volt cross country either, it is just that it would require I put GAS in it..yick...I didn't buy it to put GAS in it...

 

[dilloduck]

And what fuel powers the grid that charges these EV ?

 

[Katzndogz]

The manufacture of gigantic haz-mat batteries don't seem to enter into the pleasant green orientated equation. I think coal mining companies have the black lung problem licked but what's going to happen in the heavy metal factories and I ain't talking about bands when exposure to lead and mercury becomes an issue? That's easy, make them in China. What is the base line cost for setting up charging stations? The left coast has experienced spectacular brownouts in the summer in recent years. Will greenie families have to risk an unexpected layover in a hostile town until the grid catches up? It might make a good hollywood plot.

Mammooth says that Cali has enough excess energy to charge 25Mill EVs....

That's why companies are being lined up in brown-out priority.. Because Cali has so much excess electricity and grid capacity.

You said it before I did. California cannot meet energy demands now. Not only brown outs, but black outs as the grid fails at weak points.

 

[Star]

The manufacture of gigantic haz-mat batteries don't seem to enter into the pleasant green orientated equation. I think coal mining companies have the black lung problem licked but what's going to happen in the heavy metal factories and I ain't talking about bands when exposure to lead and mercury becomes an issue? That's easy, make them in China. What is the base line cost for setting up charging stations? The left coast has experienced spectacular brownouts in the summer in recent years. Will greenie families have to risk an unexpected layover in a hostile town until the grid catches up? It might make a good hollywood plot.

Mammooth says that Cali has enough excess energy to charge 25Mill EVs....

That's why companies are being lined up in brown-out priority.. Because Cali has so much excess electricity and grid capacity.

You said it before I did. California cannot meet energy demands now. Not only brown outs, but black outs as the grid fails at weak points.

According to California Independent System Operator Chief Executive Steve Berberich you're just blowing smoke (so to speak) about "Not only brown outs, but black outs " in CA.


Officials with the California Independent System Operator, which oversees the state's power grid, said Monday they expect to get through another summer without blackouts even if San Onofre remains shuttered — although damaging wildfires in the months ahead could undermine that prediction.

With the plant out of service, the region is more dependent on imported power, and California Independent System Operator Chief Executive Steve Berberich said he was "pretty concerned" that fires could threaten transmission lines in remote areas.
.

 

[Star]

The manufacture of gigantic haz-mat batteries don't seem to enter into the pleasant green orientated equation. I think coal mining companies have the black lung problem licked but what's going to happen in the heavy metal factories and I ain't talking about bands when exposure to lead and mercury becomes an issue? That's easy, make them in China. What is the base line cost for setting up charging stations? The left coast has experienced spectacular brownouts in the summer in recent years. Will greenie families have to risk an unexpected layover in a hostile town until the grid catches up? It might make a good hollywood plot.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Next, a new investigation finds a resurgence of a deadly disease in coal mining country.
Again, Hari Sreenivasan.


HARI SREENIVASAN: More than four decades ago, Congress set a goal of eradicating black lung disease by passing a law that limited miners' exposure to coal dust.
But a joint investigation by NPR and the Center for Public Integrity found many miners are still exposed to too much dust, leading to a doubling of black lung rates in just a decade.

<snip>


...But the other thing that's occurred is that the law that was passed to protect miners from black lung and from the dust that causes black lung was never really seriously enforced. It was filled with loopholes from the very beginning that enabled mining companies to basically game the system.

-pewsh!- American industries self-regulating and self policing and governmental lack of ovesight equals more tortuous black lung disease/early death.

Do you ever fact check before spewing BS or-----or do you purposely just make shit up to indulge your ideology?
.

 

[Moonglow]

When automobiles first came out their life span was short, they had bad gas mileage and until Ford's model T were expensive to own. Oh my!

 

[westwall]

Mammooth says that Cali has enough excess energy to charge 25Mill EVs....

That's why companies are being lined up in brown-out priority.. Because Cali has so much excess electricity and grid capacity.

You said it before I did. California cannot meet energy demands now. Not only brown outs, but black outs as the grid fails at weak points.

According to California Independent System Operator Chief Executive Steve Berberich you're just blowing smoke (so to speak) about "Not only brown outs, but black outs " in CA.


Officials with the California Independent System Operator, which oversees the state's power grid, said Monday they expect to get through another summer without blackouts even if San Onofre remains shuttered — although damaging wildfires in the months ahead could undermine that prediction.

With the plant out of service, the region is more dependent on imported power, and California Independent System Operator Chief Executive Steve Berberich said he was "pretty concerned" that fires could threaten transmission lines in remote areas.
.

These people disagree with you...



California Energy Shortage

Subsequent Events-California's Energy Crisis

Navy nears deal to help avoid Cal power shortages

California_Energy_Shortage_2-28-13

California Energy Crisis: Impacts, Causes & Remedies

 

[westwall]

When automobiles first came out their life span was short, they had bad gas mileage and until Ford's model T were expensive to own. Oh my!

And in ten years they crushed the electric car market which was dominant at the time. Furthermore they have been improved to the point where government regs are actually keeping the most efficient engines from being used.

I like the Volt, just like I like all hybrids, I'm just not foolish enough to think that they are a free ride. There's no such thing.

 

[flacaltenn]

Mammooth says that Cali has enough excess energy to charge 25Mill EVs....

That's why companies are being lined up in brown-out priority.. Because Cali has so much excess electricity and grid capacity.

You said it before I did. California cannot meet energy demands now. Not only brown outs, but black outs as the grid fails at weak points.

According to California Independent System Operator Chief Executive Steve Berberich you're just blowing smoke (so to speak) about "Not only brown outs, but black outs " in CA.



Officials with the California Independent System Operator, which oversees the state's power grid, said Monday they expect to get through another summer without blackouts even if San Onofre remains shuttered — although damaging wildfires in the months ahead could undermine that prediction.

With the plant out of service, the region is more dependent on imported power, and California Independent System Operator Chief Executive Steve Berberich said he was "pretty concerned" that fires could threaten transmission lines in remote areas.
.

Don't really care how many blackouts Cal-ISO says they expect this summer. They make the same statement every year about this time. Many of my clients have left the state because they couldn't keep the lights on.. To get thru summer 2012 -- they had to cajole the navy in San Diego to "VOLUNTEER" to shut down operations FIRST when demand got tight.

Perhaps you didn't notice the LARGER crisis that is coming from that article..

A long-range future without the [Santa Onofre nuclear] plant is a more complicated scenario, largely because the state is also implementing new regulations on the way coastal power plants use seawater for cooling. San Onofre will loom large in upcoming discussions on whether to retire, retrofit or repower 11 gas-fired coastal plants that supply about 11,000 megawatts of power — nearly five times what San Onofre generates.

In their infinite wisdom, Cali energy dictators actually SABOTAGED those gas plants. Cutting the main gas inlets and otherwise damaging them to punish fossil fuels.

Larger point is to THIS OP -- Cali operates on about a 15% "reserve". Meaning that they THINK they can buy enough power (mostly out of state) to cope with peak demands 15% above forecast peaks. Because of bad credit and other problems, that energy is usually committed to other buyers first. Leaving Cali in the dark.

CERTAINLY, adding 35Mill or so PLUG-IN EVs is not in the cards for Cali anytime soon..

To make things worse out there....

Will blackouts darken Calif. this summer? | CalWatchDog

Power Outages Have Risen 350 Percent Since 2007
Power outages affecting 50,000 people or more have been growing over the past decade in North America. But outages really took off from 2007 to 2011 when outages increased from 100 to 350 per year.

Southern California is working fast to get back into service two gas-fired power plants in Huntington Beach that were mothballed last year. This indicates how fast events have turned around on electric capacity planners.

To comply with regulations, both of the decommissioned Huntington Beach gas power plants had their gas lines severed and three-foot holes were cut in the boilers.

SDG&E is also accelerating the build out of the Sunrise Power Transmission Link into San Diego. This will bring 1,000 megawatts of power from Imperial County to San Diego County over a 230/500 Kilovolt power line spanning 117-miles. One problem with this new transmission line is that the electrons transmitted will be from renewable energy projects in Imperial County that cannot be counted on in a blackout.
Wind and solar power plants cannot be depended on for base load power in the event of an outage or rolling blackouts. .
California is in the process of shifting 33 percent of its power to alternative energy such as wind and solar power.

 

[Star]

You said it before I did. California cannot meet energy demands now. Not only brown outs, but black outs as the grid fails at weak points.

According to California Independent System Operator Chief Executive Steve Berberich you're just blowing smoke (so to speak) about "Not only brown outs, but black outs " in CA.


Officials with the California Independent System Operator, which oversees the state's power grid, said Monday they expect to get through another summer without blackouts even if San Onofre remains shuttered — although damaging wildfires in the months ahead could undermine that prediction.

With the plant out of service, the region is more dependent on imported power, and California Independent System Operator Chief Executive Steve Berberich said he was "pretty concerned" that fires could threaten transmission lines in remote areas.
.

These people disagree with you...



California Energy Shortage

Subsequent Events-California's Energy Crisis

Navy nears deal to help avoid Cal power shortages

California_Energy_Shortage_2-28-13

California Energy Crisis: Impacts, Causes & Remedies

Seriously?-seer-e-us-lee? SMH @ U

California Energy Shortage
The most recent date on this page is January 31, 2002 - not relevant to the discussion.

Subsequent Events-California's Energy Crisis
The most recent date on this page is March 21, 2002 - not relevant to the discussion.

Navy nears deal to help avoid Cal power shortages
This is over a year old - April 29 2012 - not relevant to the discussion.

California_Energy_Shortage_2-28-13
Excerpted from the excerpted WSJ post you posted -sheesh- "At Tuesday's meeting, experts cautioned that the state could begin seeing problems with reliability as soon as 2015." - not relevant to the discussion.

California Energy Crisis: Impacts, Causes & Remedies
This link is to the minutes of a congressional meeting held on June 20, 2001. - not relevant to the discussion.


Obviously, you don't fact check the crap you post, it turns out you don't read the links you post either.
.

 

[Katzndogz]

Heat related power failures.

Heat wave continues this weekend in Southern California - DailyBulletin.com

Rotating power outages.

https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home...9nQSEh/?from=/info/poweroutages/outagemap.htm

Not that driving an EV will really save you money because there will be a tax on mileage to make up the difference.

California Proposes Tax On Driving