Evil As An Explanation

[ding]

First of all evil is not extant. It doesn't exist in and of itself. Evil is the absence of good.

So men do not do "evil" for evil's sake. The do evil for the sake of their own good.

Then they rationalize that what they did was not "evil."

Been going on for thousands of years.

"...men do not do "evil" for evil's sake. The do evil for the sake of their own good."


Show me.

a. "Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock"
Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock

b. "Texas Church Shooting: More Than Two Dozen Parishioners Killed Federal officials said the motive for the shooting was unclear. " More than two dozen parishioners killed in rural Texas church shooting

It pleases them to do that. People do things that please them for their own good.

You can do better than this......I hope.


This:
a. "Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock"
Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock

And this:

b. "Texas Church Shooting: More Than Two Dozen Parishioners Killed Federal officials said the motive for the shooting was unclear. " More than two dozen parishioners killed in rural Texas church shooting


....provide no benefit to either individual.

But, do, to the Prince of Darkness.


"Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires."
Romans 6:12


"its" may be "his"

Can't do better than the truth. People do not do evil for the sake of evil.

Since you were unable to explain the two examples I provided, and they run counter to the cliches you propounded, you certainly won't be able to deal with post # 55.


Seems I'll just have to await a more astute observer of the human condition.

I did explain it. The shooters did it for their own good or what they perceived was their good.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"...men do not do "evil" for evil's sake. The do evil for the sake of their own good."


Show me.

a. "Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock"
Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock

b. "Texas Church Shooting: More Than Two Dozen Parishioners Killed Federal officials said the motive for the shooting was unclear. " More than two dozen parishioners killed in rural Texas church shooting

It pleases them to do that. People do things that please them for their own good.

You can do better than this......I hope.


This:
a. "Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock"
Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock

And this:

b. "Texas Church Shooting: More Than Two Dozen Parishioners Killed Federal officials said the motive for the shooting was unclear. " More than two dozen parishioners killed in rural Texas church shooting


....provide no benefit to either individual.

But, do, to the Prince of Darkness.


"Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires."
Romans 6:12


"its" may be "his"

Can't do better than the truth. People do not do evil for the sake of evil.

Since you were unable to explain the two examples I provided, and they run counter to the cliches you propounded, you certainly won't be able to deal with post # 55.


Seems I'll just have to await a more astute observer of the human condition.

I did explain it. The shooters did it for their own good or what they perceived was their good.

And the benefit they received was.......death???

With very little effort you have become our best source of Greenhouse Gases.

 

[PoliticalChic]

God/the Bible says ''the love of money, is the root of all evil''

so not money alone or in and of itself,

but the LOVE of money

God/the Bible says ''the love of money, is the root of all evil''

so not money alone or in and of itself,

but the LOVE of money

From the OP:
An essential element in recognizing evil, in the context I mean it, is that evil is often gratuitous.
There are gradations of evil, true enough, but usually we know the motivation: money, power, love....personal aggrandizement that leads the weak of character to murder, steal, injure, torture....to attain profits of some sort.

Soooo.....what if we can't see any personal gain from an evil act?

then it is probably not true evil....

as example, if a mentally ill person kills for absolutely no reason...to us, it seems like nothing could be more evil than to kill for no reason, but I can assume, to God....well....He sees the WHOLE PICTURE and knows the mental illness was the real cause and not what we earthlings call and see as evil.

"...then it is probably not true evil...."

Is this 'true' evil?

a. "Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock"
Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock

b. "Texas Church Shooting: More Than Two Dozen Parishioners Killed Federal officials said the motive for the shooting was unclear. " More than two dozen parishioners killed in rural Texas church shooting


Or this...?

"…yesterday as Padrica Caine Hill pleaded guilty to murdering her two small children and trying to strangle the third.

Hill had started out the morning of April 9, 1988, driving her husband to work, chatting about her plan to get the oil changed in the car. Instead, she went to their home on Quincy Place NE and smoked crack. She made the children breakfast. She dressed them. She let them watch cartoons.

Then she strangled 8-year-old Kristina and 4-year-old Eric Jr. with a clothes line. She attempted to strangle 2-year-old Jennifer, but left her breathing softly, the cord still wrapped around her neck. …
She Smoked Crack, Then Killed Her Children; `I Hadn't Planned on It,' D.C. Mother Says of Stranglings - The Washington Post | HighBeam Research



"When the police come, Padrica Hill says she loves her children. Why did she kill them? "I don't know," she answers in apparently genuine bewilderment. "I hadn't planned on it."
Morrow, Op. Cit.

I hadn't planned on killing my own children?????????


When evil is powerful enough to supplant even the desire of a mother to keep her own children from harm…..doesn't that imply that evil is something outside of human nature???





"Many writers have said that one of evil's higher accomplishments has been to convince people that it does not exist."
ESSAY: Evil

 

[ding]

It pleases them to do that. People do things that please them for their own good.

You can do better than this......I hope.


This:
a. "Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock"
Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock

And this:

b. "Texas Church Shooting: More Than Two Dozen Parishioners Killed Federal officials said the motive for the shooting was unclear. " More than two dozen parishioners killed in rural Texas church shooting


....provide no benefit to either individual.

But, do, to the Prince of Darkness.


"Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires."
Romans 6:12


"its" may be "his"

Can't do better than the truth. People do not do evil for the sake of evil.

Since you were unable to explain the two examples I provided, and they run counter to the cliches you propounded, you certainly won't be able to deal with post # 55.


Seems I'll just have to await a more astute observer of the human condition.

I did explain it. The shooters did it for their own good or what they perceived was their good.

And the benefit they received was.......death???

With very little effort you have become our best source of Greenhouse Gases.

Yes. Do you think they hadn't thought that through?

 

[PoliticalChic]

You can do better than this......I hope.


This:
a. "Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock"
Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock

And this:

b. "Texas Church Shooting: More Than Two Dozen Parishioners Killed Federal officials said the motive for the shooting was unclear. " More than two dozen parishioners killed in rural Texas church shooting


....provide no benefit to either individual.

But, do, to the Prince of Darkness.


"Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires."
Romans 6:12


"its" may be "his"

Can't do better than the truth. People do not do evil for the sake of evil.

Since you were unable to explain the two examples I provided, and they run counter to the cliches you propounded, you certainly won't be able to deal with post # 55.


Seems I'll just have to await a more astute observer of the human condition.

I did explain it. The shooters did it for their own good or what they perceived was their good.

And the benefit they received was.......death???

With very little effort you have become our best source of Greenhouse Gases.

Yes. Do you think they hadn't thought that through?

So the best you can do is claim that the 'benefit' to the examples that I provided was their death?

To state that your explanation is vapid would be to do you a service.




Based on these examples, I claim that there is something more at work than the desire to die.

a. "Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock"
Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock

b. "Texas Church Shooting: More Than Two Dozen Parishioners Killed Federal officials said the motive for the shooting was unclear. " More than two dozen parishioners killed in rural Texas church shooting


Or this...?

c. "…yesterday as Padrica Caine Hill pleaded guilty to murdering her two small children and trying to strangle the third.

Hill had started out the morning of April 9, 1988, driving her husband to work, chatting about her plan to get the oil changed in the car. Instead, she went to their home on Quincy Place NE and smoked crack. She made the children breakfast. She dressed them. She let them watch cartoons.

Then she strangled 8-year-old Kristina and 4-year-old Eric Jr. with a clothes line. She attempted to strangle 2-year-old Jennifer, but left her breathing softly, the cord still wrapped around her neck. …
She Smoked Crack, Then Killed Her Children; `I Hadn't Planned on It,' D.C. Mother Says of Stranglings - The Washington Post | HighBeam Research



"When the police come, Padrica Hill says she loves her children. Why did she kill them? "I don't know," she answers in apparently genuine bewilderment. "I hadn't planned on it."
Morrow, Op. Cit.

I hadn't planned on killing my own children?????????


When evil is powerful enough to supplant even the desire of a mother to keep her own children from harm…..doesn't that imply that evil is something outside of human nature???





"Many writers have said that one of evil's higher accomplishments has been to convince people that it does not exist."
ESSAY: Evil

 

[ChrisL]

I think some people just "snap." Whether that is because they are suffering from an undiagnosed mental illness (which is quite common - mental illness is not always so clear cut and easy to diagnose) or they are just weak in the mind, emotionally, whatever. I am very skeptical that there is a "Prince of Darkness" who has "taken over their souls."

We don't even understand the human brain completely yet. There are MANY mysteries about it that still are unexplained. That doesn't mean supernatural forces are at play.

Some killers have been found to have had brain tumors after death which were believed to have contributed to their "breakdown."

 

[PoliticalChic]

I think some people just "snap." Whether that is because they are suffering from an undiagnosed mental illness (which is quite common - mental illness is not always so clear cut and easy to diagnose) or they are just weak in the mind, emotionally, whatever. I am very skeptical that there is a "Prince of Darkness" who has "taken over their souls."

We don't even understand the human brain completely yet. There are MANY mysteries about it that still are unexplained. That doesn't mean supernatural forces are at play.

Some killers have been found to have had brain tumors after death which were believed to have contributed to their "breakdown."

 

[PoliticalChic]

Those who reject the idea that God exists, also refuse to consider the existence of evil.

Yet.....there are events that are inexplicable without said acceptance.


"Dostoevsky underlined the idea that the problem of evil is not just one more mystery. It is so central to our lives that if reason stumbles there, it must give way to faith. If you cannot understand why children are tortured, nothing else you understand really matters.

…the rejection of theodicy [God, and the existence of evil] becomes the rejection of comprehension itself."
"Evil in Modern Thought: An Alternative History of Philosophy," By Susan Neiman p. 325

 

[BreezeWood]

Those who reject the idea that God exists, also refuse to consider the existence of evil.

... also refuse to consider the existence of evil.


that is not true, both good and evil are recognized for what they represent irregardless of any religious conviction. and they certainly do not exist through the dogmas of any given religion such as the desert religions but are secular and universal in their nature.

 

[Tax Man]

Evil exists because republicans are let loose to plunder and kill so they can get wealthy and enslave mankind.

 

[K9Buck]

Evil is that which opposes God, in both acts and thoughts.

 

[K9Buck]

Evil exists because republicans are let loose to plunder and kill so they can get wealthy and enslave mankind.

Yea, that's why those evil Republicans want to REDUCE government control and to let people keep more of their own money, because they want to enslave everyone.

 

[ding]

So the best you can do is claim that the 'benefit' to the examples that I provided was their death?

No. That it pleased them to do it. That was their own good I was talking about.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Those who reject the idea that God exists, also refuse to consider the existence of evil.

... also refuse to consider the existence of evil.


that is not true, both good and evil are recognized for what they represent irregardless of any religious conviction. and they certainly do not exist through the dogmas of any given religion such as the desert religions but are secular and universal in their nature.

What is it, then, that causes evil?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Evil exists because republicans are let loose to plunder and kill so they can get wealthy and enslave mankind.

I’m proud of you, ExLaxMan......
Not only are you a fool, but you have the energy to let everyone know it!


Today you're revealed the depth of you ignorance here: "republicans are let loose to plunder and kill so they can get wealthy and enslave mankind..."

1. The Democrats/Liberals are the party of the rich...

1. As of 2009, the financial assets of the 115 major tax-exempt foundations of the Left add up to $104.56 billlion. Not only is this total not less than the financial assets of the 75 foundations of the Right, it was more than ten times greater! [p. 8]
   1. Bradley, Olin, Scaife, the “Big Three” conservative foundations, not one has assets exceeding $1 billion. (Olin has been defunct since 2005).

i. Scaife Foundation has assets totaling $244 million.

ii. Bradley Foundation, $623 million.

1. Fourteen progressive foundations do, including Gates, Ford, Robert Wood Johnson, Hewlett, Kellogg, Packard, MacArthur, Mellon, Rockefeller, Casey, Carnegie, Simons, Heinz, and the Open Society Institute.

i. Ford alone has 16 times what Bradley has.

ii. Soros has claimed that he has donated over $7 billion to his Open Society organizations.

iii. The leading Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, $33 billion.

1. With over $100 billion in tax-exempt assets at their disposal, left-wing foundations have been able to invest massively greater amounts in their beneficiary groups. Ford gave more in one year than Scaife in 40!

2. The Democrats/Liberals are the party of abortion for convenience.


Have you ever had an utterance that wasn't directed by the DNC?

Ever?

 

[PoliticalChic]

So the best you can do is claim that the 'benefit' to the examples that I provided was their death?

No. That it pleased them to do it. That was their own good I was talking about.

I anxiously await your exposition as to how, in the following cases, the individuals derived 'benefits.'

a. "Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock"
Las Vegas shooting motive eludes investigators as new details emerge about gunman Stephen Paddock

b. "Texas Church Shooting: More Than Two Dozen Parishioners Killed Federal officials said the motive for the shooting was unclear. " More than two dozen parishioners killed in rural Texas church shooting


Or this...?

c. "…yesterday as Padrica Caine Hill pleaded guilty to murdering her two small children and trying to strangle the third.

Hill had started out the morning of April 9, 1988, driving her husband to work, chatting about her plan to get the oil changed in the car. Instead, she went to their home on Quincy Place NE and smoked crack. She made the children breakfast. She dressed them. She let them watch cartoons.

Then she strangled 8-year-old Kristina and 4-year-old Eric Jr. with a clothes line. She attempted to strangle 2-year-old Jennifer, but left her breathing softly, the cord still wrapped around her neck. …
She Smoked Crack, Then Killed Her Children; `I Hadn't Planned on It,' D.C. Mother Says of Stranglings - The Washington Post | HighBeam Research



"When the police come, Padrica Hill says she loves her children. Why did she kill them? "I don't know," she answers in apparently genuine bewilderment. "I hadn't planned on it."
Morrow, Op. Cit.

I hadn't planned on killing my own children?????????


When evil is powerful enough to supplant even the desire of a mother to keep her own children from harm…..doesn't that imply that evil is something outside of human nature???

 

[PoliticalChic]

Evil is that which opposes God, in both acts and thoughts.

Pretty much by definition.

 

[ChrisL]

Well obviously the answer is more exorcisms for those whose souls have been taken over by demons and devils!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Well obviously the answer is more exorcisms for those whose souls have been taken over by demons and devils!

For which of these is there more evidence:

a. The existence of evil, either as an amorphous concept or with a personification...

or

b. The efficacy of the Liberal welfare system which, in half a century, has been able to waste $22 trillion to no avail.....the poverty rate is nearly the same as when LBJ began his 'War on Poverty.'



Or....do you recommend some sort of political exorcism of Democrats?

 

[BreezeWood]

Those who reject the idea that God exists, also refuse to consider the existence of evil.

... also refuse to consider the existence of evil.


that is not true, both good and evil are recognized for what they represent irregardless of any religious conviction. and they certainly do not exist through the dogmas of any given religion such as the desert religions but are secular and universal in their nature.

What is it, then, that causes evil?

.
Those who reject the idea that God exists, also refuse to consider the existence of evil.

What is it, then, that causes evil?

- PC, in regards to your reply to your above statement:

what could - "also refuse to consider the existence of evil" - possibly mean, that only "religious" people are affected by a metaphysical axiom as their means for remission due to their religion that an atheist is not also subjected to in their struggles in life ... PC, you are a political / religious fanatic.

religion =/= metaphysical axioms