English as the official language laws?

[manifold]

Do you think laws mandating English as the official language are in violation of the 1st Amendment right to freedom of speech? Why? Why not? I never really thought about that before, but a friend of mine brought it up recently in conversation so I thought I'd pose the question to the intelligent minds of USMB.

 

[Anguille]

It is the official language of USMB?

Me ne freggo!!!!

 

[editec]

No, I do not.

People are free to speak any language they care to.

To some extent I believe we ought to help people who don't speak English to learn the language, but I believe we have gone completely overboard making it okay to live here and not know enough of the language to get along.

If you cannot speak ENGLISH, then how on earth can you be an informed voter in the USA?

 

[Anguille]

If you cannot speak ENGLISH, then how on earth can you be an informed voter in the USA?

Maybe in France? They have good newspapers and talk about us all the time.

 

[manifold]

If you cannot speak ENGLISH, then how on earth can you be an informed voter in the USA?

I don't think that's a particularly difficult hurdle to be honest. Being informed only requires the desire to be informed. I know plenty of English speaking people that are woefully uninformed. Heck, I'd even categorize myself as mildly uninformed.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Do you think laws mandating English as the official language are in violation of the 1st Amendment right to freedom of speech? Why? Why not? I never really thought about that before, but a friend of mine brought it up recently in conversation so I thought I'd pose the question to the intelligent minds of USMB.

Just in general, i don't think it would violate the 1st Amendment. Official language only governs what language official government business will be conducted in. "Free speech" generally concerns the ability to express ones opinion. People would still be able to do that and they could even petition the government in a foreign language (just nobody would understand it).

I would be interested in hearing what your friend's logic was for why the 1st Amendment would prohibit official language laws.

 

[Care4all]

is there not already a rule that rules all government matters being done in english? and if done in another language AS WELL, this other language is a secondary language?

 

[Care4all]

No, I do not.

People are free to speak any language they care to.

To some extent I believe we ought to help people who don't speak English to learn the language, but I believe we have gone completely overboard making it okay to live here and not know enough of the language to get along.

If you cannot speak ENGLISH, then how on earth can you be an informed voter in the USA?

there are entire communities, made up of millions, in big cities that do not speak our language....China town in new york, as an example....but these people are more informed than the average joe on many American governmental issues because they have their own newspapers and tv stations and people that interpret the news in to Chinese...

same with little italy in nyc....they do not speak the language but are very informed, none the less....

 

[Tech_Esq]

is there not already a rule that rules all government matters being done in english? and if done in another language AS WELL, this other language is a secondary language?

Only in a few towns and some small cities. I look at it more as a cost saving matter more than anything else. It's bad enough we create all this bureaucratic paperwork once and in one language, but creating it and processing it in multiple languages is really too much waste. The sooner people assimilate, the better chance they have of being successful. It's a win-win to do the little things that ensure this will happen. "Forcing" people to do some things in English, is a good policy and has the side benefit of being cost effective.

 

[Care4all]

is there not already a rule that rules all government matters being done in english? and if done in another language AS WELL, this other language is a secondary language?

Only in a few towns and some small cities. I look at it more as a cost saving matter more than anything else. It's bad enough we create all this bureaucratic paperwork once and in one language, but creating it and processing it in multiple languages is really too much waste. The sooner people assimilate, the better chance they have of being successful. It's a win-win to do the little things that ensure this will happen. "Forcing" people to do some things in English, is a good policy and has the side benefit of being cost effective.

if ballots are printed in english and chinese in china town, the waste is probably printing it in english, no?

the chinese in chinatown are citizens and pay their taxes, both federal and local....so wouldn't it be them, with their taxes, that is paying for their voting district's printing in chinese?

i am not certain how it works?

and yes, i think it is very important for foreigners to assimilate with us english speaking americans....

 

[Skeptik]

California passed a referendum several years ago making English the official language of that state. The results of said initiative have been, well, nothing, zero, zilch. What harm did it do? None. What good did it do? None. We still see and hear Spanish everywhere.

It isn't against the first amendment. You can still say whatever you want, and say it in whatever language you choose to. It makes no difference at all.

 

[Ravi]

California passed a referendum several years ago making English the official language of that state. The results of said initiative have been, well, nothing, zero, zilch. What harm did it do? None. What good did it do? None. We still see and hear Spanish everywhere.

It isn't against the first amendment. You can still say whatever you want, and say it in whatever language you choose to. It makes no difference at all.

Do you think a government has no duty to communicate with its citizens?

We also have an official language that is unenforced. IMO, it is nothing more than a pander to the fearful.

 

[Skeptik]

California passed a referendum several years ago making English the official language of that state. The results of said initiative have been, well, nothing, zero, zilch. What harm did it do? None. What good did it do? None. We still see and hear Spanish everywhere.

It isn't against the first amendment. You can still say whatever you want, and say it in whatever language you choose to. It makes no difference at all.

Do you think a government has no duty to communicate with its citizens?

We also have an official language that is unenforced. IMO, it is nothing more than a pander to the fearful.

That might be your opinion, but the fact is that the US doesn't have an official language. You might think it should have, might be in favor of one, but there is not one, enforced or not. That is a simple fact.

 

[Amanda]

Do you think laws mandating English as the official language are in violation of the 1st Amendment right to freedom of speech? Why? Why not? I never really thought about that before, but a friend of mine brought it up recently in conversation so I thought I'd pose the question to the intelligent minds of USMB.

I don't see how it would impact the 1st amendment, maybe I'm missing something.

I think it would save money if they only had to print things in one language. If people want to come here/be citizens it shouldn't be all that surprising that we use English. If I went to France I'd learn french, if I went to Germany I'd learn german, I wouldn't expect the taxes of the citizens of the country to subsidize the cost of printing things so I could read them.

 

[Ravi]

California passed a referendum several years ago making English the official language of that state. The results of said initiative have been, well, nothing, zero, zilch. What harm did it do? None. What good did it do? None. We still see and hear Spanish everywhere.

It isn't against the first amendment. You can still say whatever you want, and say it in whatever language you choose to. It makes no difference at all.

Do you think a government has no duty to communicate with its citizens?

We also have an official language that is unenforced. IMO, it is nothing more than a pander to the fearful.

That might be your opinion, but the fact is that the US doesn't have an official language. You might think it should have, might be in favor of one, but there is not one, enforced or not. That is a simple fact.

I think you misunderstood me. My state has an official language (english) but it isn't enforced...we still get ballots in multiple languages.

I think the government has to represent its citizens no matter what language they speak and as long as english isn't a requirement for citizenship making it an official language is unconstitutional. Not to mention un-American.

 

[Tech_Esq]

is there not already a rule that rules all government matters being done in english? and if done in another language AS WELL, this other language is a secondary language?

Only in a few towns and some small cities. I look at it more as a cost saving matter more than anything else. It's bad enough we create all this bureaucratic paperwork once and in one language, but creating it and processing it in multiple languages is really too much waste. The sooner people assimilate, the better chance they have of being successful. It's a win-win to do the little things that ensure this will happen. "Forcing" people to do some things in English, is a good policy and has the side benefit of being cost effective.

if ballots are printed in english and chinese in china town, the waste is probably printing it in english, no?

the chinese in chinatown are citizens and pay their taxes, both federal and local....so wouldn't it be them, with their taxes, that is paying for their voting district's printing in chinese?

i am not certain how it works?

and yes, i think it is very important for foreigners to assimilate with us english speaking americans....

Have you ever sent something out for printing?

If you order a lot of the same thing you get a pretty reasonable price. If you order varying quantities of 17 different things, you don't get nearly as attractive of a price.

But that's only the tip of the iceberg. There are instructions to print. And if you are going to have Chinese ballots why would you stop there? Why not Chinese unemployment applications, drivers license forms and tests, and who gives the driving test? A guy who speaks chinese for the chinese and korean for the koreans and Nigerian etc, etc. Now maybe you live in a semi-homogeneous place, but we have all manner of Africans, Indians, Pakistanis, Asians from China, Korea and Vietnam in large numbers, indonesians, Malaysians not to mention large numbers of Hispanics (although receding) what would you have us do? How many different languages do we support?

these people came to the United States. it is a well known fact around the world that we speak English here. It was not a surprise when they got here. "Oh crap no Urdu!" Nope, we pretty well advertise the fact it's English. I went to Germany, sure a lot of Germans speak English, but I damn well tried to learn enough German to get around. So the same goes for these folks. I'm not asking them to do anything I didn't do.

 

[Tech_Esq]

California passed a referendum several years ago making English the official language of that state. The results of said initiative have been, well, nothing, zero, zilch. What harm did it do? None. What good did it do? None. We still see and hear Spanish everywhere.

It isn't against the first amendment. You can still say whatever you want, and say it in whatever language you choose to. It makes no difference at all.

Do you think a government has no duty to communicate with its citizens?

We also have an official language that is unenforced. IMO, it is nothing more than a pander to the fearful.

What would they be afraid of Ravi? Strange characters in the words? Just seems like plain common sense. It isn't too much to ask people to speak English period.

 

[Skeptik]

Do you think a government has no duty to communicate with its citizens?

We also have an official language that is unenforced. IMO, it is nothing more than a pander to the fearful.

That might be your opinion, but the fact is that the US doesn't have an official language. You might think it should have, might be in favor of one, but there is not one, enforced or not. That is a simple fact.

I think you misunderstood me. My state has an official language (english) but it isn't enforced...we still get ballots in multiple languages.

I think the government has to represent its citizens no matter what language they speak and as long as english isn't a requirement for citizenship making it an official language is unconstitutional. Not to mention un-American.

Oh, you're talking about your state. I thought you meant the country. My state has English as the official language, too, but you wouldn't know it. I'm not sure just what good it does.


I thought they did have to learn English, but it appears there are some exceptions:

Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language. Applicants exempt from this requirement are those who on the date of filing:

*
have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for periods totaling 15 years or more and are over 55 years of age;
*
have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for periods totaling 20 years or more and are over 50 years of age; or
*
have a medically determinable physical or mental impairment, where the impairment affects the applicant’s ability to learn English.

 

[Ravi]

I think as long as they can pass the question and answer session in english they are good to go.

 

[Care4all]

I think as long as they can pass the question and answer session in english they are good to go.

That's how it was with my Italian grandparents, when they took the test...

My grandma was about 55 and grandpa was about 65 when they got here and so help me goodness, my grandma tried real hard, but she never ended up speaking english and she lived here till 87 when she passed on....my mother had to be the interpreter with her doctors and banks and dentists and you name it.....the groceries and dry cleaners and clothes shopping she could get by with in little Italy...

She worked for a coat factory in the Garment district in NYC for 20 years and at 75 when she retired she still never spoke a word of the language and the woman who sewed coats right next to her, was israeli and also did not speak english, and they worked side by side for 20 years and were best of work friends.....only the Lord knows how???? Must of been some sort of sign language they developed? lol

My grandfather on the other hand, was always more educated than my grandmom and had dealings with Americans at the base that was near where they lived overseas so he picked up enough, even at the age of 65, to get along without my mother's assistance....he lived till almost 92.

But, let me tell you this...my grandma wanted no exceptions for her age...she studied those questions day and night for over a year so that she could answer in English, God rest her soul, and when we came to visit them, she used to have me practice with her...and the first question was, Who was the first President of the United States and she used to answer, George io Wash ing a ton a ! with her thick Italian accent. i could not get away fast enough to just giggle in the other room...

Care