Empirical Falsification Of the CAGW meme.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Individual molecules don't have a "temperature". Temperature is a statistical property of a collection of molecules. In any collection of gas or liquid molecules at a given temperature, some will be moving more slowly, some more quickly.

That makes the SSDD/BillyBob theory even more peculiar. In their theory, the slower moving molecules in a hotter gas somehow know that their neighboring molecules are moving faster, and thus those slower molecules know they also need to reject the slightly lower energy photons. Or is it the other way, that emitter molecules know not to emit towards the slower individual molecules in a hotter gas? In any case, the molecules show intelligence on multiple levels.

Billy and SSDD need to quantify their new theory exactly. Specifically, is the intelligence with the emitter or receiver?

Does each emitter-molecule know not to emit if a receiver-mass of temperature warmer than the emitter-mass will be in the emission path at some point in the future?

Or does each receiver-molecule know not to receive if the receiver-mass is warmer than the emitter-mass which the photon came from?

We need to know if the actual photons are flying through space or not, at which point we can continue the discussion.

In any case, the molecules show intelligence on multiple levels.

SSDD's causality violating, all knowing, future seeing, smart photon theory is funny.
All created to back up his "no back radiation" theory.

 

[SSDD]

???? Why do you say it is not a cool object making the warm object warmer.

Because it isn't ian...and if you were able to think half as well as you seem to believe that you can, you would never have invented such a stupid mind experiment...

Explain yourself in detail, and be prepared to defend your ideas.[/qote]

Already did...again, you aren't exhibiting much mental wattage here.

You throw a cool towel over the computer...if you had sensors placed all over the computer, you would see that initially, the cooler towel starts to cool the computer as it loses heat to the towel. As the towel warms and comes to equilibrium with the computer, the fact that it is blocking convection comes into play....but by now, the towel is no longer cooler than the computer. It isn't rocket science ian...in fact, it's damned simple if you aren't stuck in some alt.reality where you actually believe that cool objects can cause warm objects to get warmer...

 

[SSDD]

???? Why do you say it is not a cool object making the warm object warmer.

I already did ian...sorry it went over your head. You are so wrapped up in your mind experiments that you can't see how quickly they fail.

Explain yourself in detail, and be prepared to defend your ideas.]quote]

Already did. but for you, I will go over it again...wish I had some crayons.

You throw a cool towel over the computer. If you had sensors across the surface of the computer, you would see that initially, the towel, being a cooler object, would start to absorb heat from the computer. As a result, the computer would actually cool down some. Since it doesn't take much to warm up a towel, that cooling period would be relatively short...but according to the second law, the cooler object would result in the warmer object cooling down somewhat.

At this point, the towel is in equilibrium with the computer...it is no longer a cool object, it is an object that is roughly the same temperature as the computer, in addition, this object that is no longer cooler is blocking the ability of the computer to convect heat away.

Throw a cooler object over the computer that does not impair convection in any way and you will see the computer initially cool off till the object comes to roughly the same temperature as the computer and then the temperature will level off to roughly the same temperature it was before the object was laid over the computer.

You are so wrapped up in your beliefs that you jump straight to the pre determined end..that being a cool object making a warm object warmer that you fail to see what happens in the middle..that being, your cool object is no longer a cool object...it stopped being a cool object at about the same time as it stopped cooling off the computer.

 

[IanC]

Here is your detailed explanation that you decided to hide from sight by inbedding it inside one of my quotes.

"
IANC SAID: ↑
Explain yourself in detail, and be prepared to defend your ideas.[/qote]

Already did...again, you aren't exhibiting much mental wattage here.

You throw a cool towel over the computer...if you had sensors placed all over the computer, you would see that initially, the cooler towel starts to cool the computer as it loses heat to the towel. As the towel warms and comes to equilibrium with the computer, the fact that it is blocking convection comes into play....but by now, the towel is no longer cooler than the computer. It isn't rocket science ian...in fact, it's damned simple if you aren't stuck in some alt.reality where you actually believe that cool objects can cause warm objects to get warmer...
"

The towel is always cooler than the tower. While the skin of the tower may have a slight initial drop from conduction, the total energy being stored by both immediately starts to increase. As this two object system heads towards equilibrium, the extra stored energy results in an increased temperature of both objects. At equilibrium the waste heat being lost to the environment once again matches the electrical input into the tower.

The change in conditions by adding the towel resulted in an increased temperature of the tower. QED

This type of interaction happens all the time. If you're too hot you reduce the input/increase the output. If you're too cold you increase the input or decrease the output. Temperature is a function of input AND output, and the amount of stored energy as it heads to equilibrium.

Your explanation was so sparse that it was practically useless. Try again, and make sure you are specific when terms need to be defined.

 

[SSDD]

The towel is always cooler than the tower.

That's the problem with mind experiments...when they are done you still don't know jack.. I used a point and shoot Fluke IR thermometer and took the temperature of my computer...threw a towel over it...it didn't take long before the towel was registering the same temperature as the case of the computer and shortly after that, the tower was warmer than the computer because it was blocking convection from the computer case...

Your mind experiment failed because your mind has failed....all you had to do was check it yourself before you suggested such a stupid experiment...but no..you are so wrapped up in your phantasy physics that you don't dare do any actual science that might show you a different thing than your predetermined outcome.

 

[IanC]

The towel is always cooler than the tower.

That's the problem with mind experiments...when they are done you still don't know jack.. I used a point and shoot Fluke IR thermometer and took the temperature of my computer...threw a towel over it...it didn't take long before the towel was registering the same temperature as the case of the computer and shortly after that, the tower was warmer than the computer because it was blocking convection from the computer case...

Your mind experiment failed because your mind has failed....all you had to do was check it yourself before you suggested such a stupid experiment...but no..you are so wrapped up in your phantasy physics that you don't dare do any actual science that might show you a different thing than your predetermined outcome.

You certainly haven't done your homework on how to perform a temperature measurement experiment.

First you have to let everything come to equilibrium with the power unplugged. Do the tower, towel and ambient air all give the same readings? Different substances and textures may need to be corrected for.

Are you measuring the same spot every time? It may be useful to also measure a spot lower down that will not be covered when you add the towel.

After powering up the tower and waiting a sufficient time for equilibrium to ensue, remeasure the air and towel (should be the same, and the upper and lower spots on the tower (both should be warmer than the ambient air, the lower spot may be cooler than the upper).

Then add the towel and wait for equilibrium. Measure the air, the towel at the same spot on the upper tower as before, the lower tower, and finally flip the towel up and measure the upper tower at the same spot.

Doing the experiment twice would also be a good idea.

BTW, why do you talk about the computer and the tower as separate objects? Did you actually open up the tower? The guts of the tower are where electricity is converted into waste heat but that is opening up a new can of worms to quality control the temperature measurements.

 

[IanC]

The towel is always cooler than the tower.

That's the problem with mind experiments...
.

Any time you put another object between a power source and the cooler environment a temperature gradient is formed. The towel must be cooler than the tower, according to the laws of thermodynamics.

 

[SSDD]

Are you measuring the same spot every time? It may be useful to also measure a spot lower down that will not be covered when you add the towel.

Speaking of measurements...do you have any actual observed, measured, quantified data, gathered with an instrument at ambient temperature that supports your phantasy physics? Any at all?

 

[SSDD]

The towel is always cooler than the tower.

That's the problem with mind experiments...
.

Any time you put another object between a power source and the cooler environment a temperature gradient is formed. The towel must be cooler than the tower, according to the laws of thermodynamics.

And a cooler object can't make a warm object warmer according to the laws of thermodynamics either, but you sure have no problem barking up that tree.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The towel is always cooler than the tower.

That's the problem with mind experiments...
.

Any time you put another object between a power source and the cooler environment a temperature gradient is formed. The towel must be cooler than the tower, according to the laws of thermodynamics.

And a cooler object can't make a warm object warmer according to the laws of thermodynamics either, but you sure have no problem barking up that tree.

Did you ever contact GSU about their errors?
You should post their response.

 

[IanC]

The towel is always cooler than the tower.

That's the problem with mind experiments...
.

Any time you put another object between a power source and the cooler environment a temperature gradient is formed. The towel must be cooler than the tower, according to the laws of thermodynamics.

And a cooler object can't make a warm object warmer according to the laws of thermodynamics either, but you sure have no problem barking up that tree.

Of course it can. Any time you replace the cold environment with an object of intermediary temperature, the warm object will lose energy less quickly.

There are two options. If the warm object has no additional heating source then it will cool less quickly, and be warmer at every interval than it would have been without the secondary object.

If the warm object does have a heating source then it will arrive at a higher equilibrium temperature because the secondary object has reduced the heat loss.

A house cools down slower, and warms up to a higher temperature when it has less exposure to the environment. Don't believe me? Try opening all the windows and doors in the dead of winter.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The towel is always cooler than the tower.

That's the problem with mind experiments...
.

Any time you put another object between a power source and the cooler environment a temperature gradient is formed. The towel must be cooler than the tower, according to the laws of thermodynamics.

And a cooler object can't make a warm object warmer according to the laws of thermodynamics either, but you sure have no problem barking up that tree.

Of course it can. Any time you replace the cold environment with an object of intermediary temperature, the warm object will lose energy less quickly.

There are two options. If the warm object has no additional heating source then it will cool less quickly, and be warmer at every interval than it would have been without the secondary object.

If the warm object does have a heating source then it will arrive at a higher equilibrium temperature because the secondary object has reduced the heat loss.

A house cools down slower, and warms up to a higher temperature when it has less exposure to the environment. Don't believe me? Try opening all the windows and doors in the dead of winter.

So that the bitter cold winter air can heat the warmer house?

 

[IanC]

Are you measuring the same spot every time? It may be useful to also measure a spot lower down that will not be covered when you add the towel.

Speaking of measurements...do you have any actual observed, measured, quantified data, gathered with an instrument at ambient temperature that supports your phantasy physics? Any at all?

You're the one who wanted to do an experiment with your Fluke. I was just giving you pointers on how to do it without (ahem) being fooled by instrumentation.

 

[IanC]

The towel is always cooler than the tower.

That's the problem with mind experiments...
.

Any time you put another object between a power source and the cooler environment a temperature gradient is formed. The towel must be cooler than the tower, according to the laws of thermodynamics.

And a cooler object can't make a warm object warmer according to the laws of thermodynamics either, but you sure have no problem barking up that tree.

Of course it can. Any time you replace the cold environment with an object of intermediary temperature, the warm object will lose energy less quickly.

There are two options. If the warm object has no additional heating source then it will cool less quickly, and be warmer at every interval than it would have been without the secondary object.

If the warm object does have a heating source then it will arrive at a higher equilibrium temperature because the secondary object has reduced the heat loss.

A house cools down slower, and warms up to a higher temperature when it has less exposure to the environment. Don't believe me? Try opening all the windows and doors in the dead of winter.

So that the bitter cold winter air can heat the warmer house?

Are you retarded?

 

[IanC]

If you like to keep the interior of your house at a nice 75F, which day would cost you more in heating bills? An outside temperature of 70F, 40F, or minus 20F? Why?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If you like to keep the interior of your house at a nice 75F, which day would cost you more in heating bills? An outside temperature of 70F, 40F, or minus 20F? Why?

The cold heats the warm, but just as much when it colder -- or something, wait let me post the SB Equation to prove that cold heats warm

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Individual molecules don't have a "temperature". Temperature is a statistical property of a collection of molecules. In any collection of gas or liquid molecules at a given temperature, some will be moving more slowly, some more quickly.

That makes the SSDD/BillyBob theory even more peculiar. In their theory, the slower moving molecules in a hotter gas somehow know that their neighboring molecules are moving faster, and thus those slower molecules know they also need to reject the slightly lower energy photons. Or is it the other way, that emitter molecules know not to emit towards the slower individual molecules in a hotter gas? In any case, the molecules show intelligence on multiple levels.

Billy and SSDD need to quantify their new theory exactly. Specifically, is the intelligence with the emitter or receiver?

Does each emitter-molecule know not to emit if a receiver-mass of temperature warmer than the emitter-mass will be in the emission path at some point in the future?

Or does each receiver-molecule know not to receive if the receiver-mass is warmer than the emitter-mass which the photon came from?

We need to know if the actual photons are flying through space or not, at which point we can continue the discussion.

In any case, the molecules show intelligence on multiple levels.

SSDD's causality violating, all knowing, future seeing, smart photon theory is funny.
All created to back up his "no back radiation" theory.

So a bowling ball shows intelligence when it falls to the alley after being release, right?

 

[IanC]

If you like to keep the interior of your house at a nice 75F, which day would cost you more in heating bills? An outside temperature of 70F, 40F, or minus 20F? Why?

The cold heats the warm, but just as much when it colder -- or something, wait let me post the SB Equation to prove that cold heats warm

So you really are retarded then?

Obviously you have had all this explained to you before but you lack the brain power to understand it.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If you like to keep the interior of your house at a nice 75F, which day would cost you more in heating bills? An outside temperature of 70F, 40F, or minus 20F? Why?

The cold heats the warm, but just as much when it colder -- or something, wait let me post the SB Equation to prove that cold heats warm

So you really are retarded then?

Obviously you have had all this explained to you before but you lack the brain power to understand it.

You're telling us that the cold is not moving through the open door to heat the house?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Individual molecules don't have a "temperature". Temperature is a statistical property of a collection of molecules. In any collection of gas or liquid molecules at a given temperature, some will be moving more slowly, some more quickly.

That makes the SSDD/BillyBob theory even more peculiar. In their theory, the slower moving molecules in a hotter gas somehow know that their neighboring molecules are moving faster, and thus those slower molecules know they also need to reject the slightly lower energy photons. Or is it the other way, that emitter molecules know not to emit towards the slower individual molecules in a hotter gas? In any case, the molecules show intelligence on multiple levels.

Billy and SSDD need to quantify their new theory exactly. Specifically, is the intelligence with the emitter or receiver?

Does each emitter-molecule know not to emit if a receiver-mass of temperature warmer than the emitter-mass will be in the emission path at some point in the future?

Or does each receiver-molecule know not to receive if the receiver-mass is warmer than the emitter-mass which the photon came from?

We need to know if the actual photons are flying through space or not, at which point we can continue the discussion.

In any case, the molecules show intelligence on multiple levels.

SSDD's causality violating, all knowing, future seeing, smart photon theory is funny.
All created to back up his "no back radiation" theory.

So a bowling ball shows intelligence when it falls to the alley after being release, right?

Yes, the bowling ball shows more intelligence than SSDD's smart photon theory.