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But I want to understand exactly what rights a frozen embryo is deserving of.That's for the states to decide. There are competing interests. However to argue there are no competing interests is disingenuous.
i strongly encourage every liberal female in this country to terminate her pregnancy today by any means necessary up to post infanticide as allowable by law.....the defectives liberals create are better off gone....conservative life is very preciousThe recent ruling by an Alabama judge has ignited a firestorm in both sides of the reproductive rights community: frozen embryos have full legal personhood rights. This has split Republican lawmakers who are, on the one hand applauding the decision while simultaneously scrambling to enact legislation to carve out a niche for IVF by redefining when an embryo is considered a person.
Florida proposed an amendment to a legislative bill being considered:Republican lawmakers in Florida had proposed an amendment to the bill, the same week as the Alabama ruling, to define “unborn child” as a human “at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb.” The change would likely protect IVF patients and doctors, but it remains uncertain whether it would be in any final version the full Legislature were to vote on.
That raises questions too.
The issue of abortion is one of competing rights: weighing a woman’s right to bodily autonomy against a fetus’ right to life. But with frozen embryos, there are no competing rights.
So what exactly does this mean?
- With abortion does ”full personhood” mean that unless a woman is at death’s door, she cannot act to save her life?
- Does it mean every miscarriage is a potential crime scene?
- Will embryos be claimed as dependents on taxes? Will they get child support?
- Will they even be US citizens? Isn’t birth/born a stipulation there?
With frozen embryos it is even more tricky:
How can you ethically have a “carve out” for IVF embryos but not implanted embryos?
- How can an embryo, implanted in a uterus be given “personhood” rights while an identical embryo, that is frozen, not be?
- Will fathers of frozen embryos be liable for child support for each one?
- If they must remain stored into perpetuity…who pays?
- Can you claim them as dependents?
- If something happens that accidently destroys hundreds of stored embryos…should the person responsible face hundreds of counts of homicide charges?
Note: I put this in CDZ to hopefully have a real discussion as this latest ruling moves the debate beyond abortion.
The mother and the child. Or do you see that child as property to be disposed of at the will of its owner?Who's interests?
I'll take your word for it.
Each state will decide that I suspect. Just like each state will decide on the legality of abortion.But I want to understand exactly what rights a frozen embryo is deserving of.
The lady who went into the fertility clinic and destroyed a bunch of frozen embryos of hopeful parents(she was a client who gained access into a freezer and dropped frozen embryos on the floor shattering the vials)....was she guilty of mass murder or destruction of property?
How are you discerning the embryos interests? Is it communicating to you somehow?The mother and the child. Or do you see that child as property to be disposed of at the will of its owner?
I'm not. The states will. I'm just happy you see it as a human being and not some clump of tissues.How are you discerning the embryos interests?
The State is discerning the embryos interests? How are they doing that? Is the embryo communicating with the State?I'm not. The states will. I'm just happy you see it as a human being and not some clump of tissues.
YesThe State is discerning the embryos interests?
How?
Ask them. I suspect the same way they discern writing all laws.How?
You're the one making the argument that this is what they're doing. How can you not know the basics of your own argument?Ask them. I suspect the same way they discern writing all laws.
No, I'm the one stating the fact that the legality of abortion will be decided by the states. Anything beyond that FACT is speculation.You're the one making the argument that this is what they're doing. How can you not know the basics of your own argument?
You weren't arguing that the State was discerning the interests of an embryo?No, I'm the one stating the fact that the legality of abortion will be decided by the states. Anything beyond that FACT is speculation.
How are you discerning the embryos interests? Is it communicating to you somehow?
I'm not. The states will. I'm just happy you see it as a human being and not some clump of tissues.
What part of the states will decide the legality of abortion, don't you understand?You weren't arguing that the State was discerning the interests of an embryo?
That's you isn't it? Isn't it easier to just admit that the interest competing with pregnant mothers is that of the State itself and not the embryo? You know, rather than deny saying what I can clearly demonstrate you saying?
The part where you tried to pretend the State was communicating with embryos and relating its interests rather than admitting that it's the State with the interest in making a women's reproductive choices a legal matter and by the State we really mean voters who are voting for the politicians who make these choices on behalf of the State.What part of the states will decide the legality of abortion, don't you understand?
Which I never did. That was all you.The part where you tried to pretend the State was communicating with embryos
No it was you. I'll quote you again, and again and again. You can't hide from your own words.Which I never did. That was all you.
How are you discerning the embryos interests? Is it communicating to you somehow?
See. That's you.I'm not. The states will. I'm just happy you see it as a human being and not some clump of tissues.
I get that you are unhappy that the states will decide the legality of abortion but that is beyond your control.No it was you ill quote you again, and again and again. You can't hide from your own words.
See. That's you.
Yes. So how are the States perceiving the interests of an embryo or fetus?discern means to perceive or recognize (something).
