Zone1 Embryos and Personhood

[Coyote]

Is freezing embryos child abuse?

 

[martybegan]

Context. What the governor said is always taken completely out of context.

The context issue is caused by the vague wording of the laws, and the change from life of the mother to just health of the mother. By that standard post partum depression could be reason enough for an abortion seconds before she gives birth.

 

[progressive hunter]

Is freezing embryos child abuse?

no more than an induced coma,,

 

[Vastator]

You are so full of shit.

This is an issue that has been pushed for years by the anti choice crowd. They saw their opportunity and seized it.

Now it has been ruled in a court of law that frozen embryos are people. And so it remains, until legislation is passed saying otherwise in Alabama.

Sweet Home Alabama. God, I love it here!

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Embryos and Personhood 240227​

This got started by a women who walked into a freezer and dropped some embryos and destroyed them... the donors or parents if you will asked to sue for wrongful death... the judge said yes you may... this is all that is... the left and their media of course want to try and link it to abortion rights and it has nothing to do with that...
Trump to his credit didn't fall for it...{post•3}

A bizarre decision by one court. And a totally sole and separate issue from abortion. These are couples spending lots of money trying to have a baby. They are entitled to compensation if their frozen embryos are destroyed. Period. {post•15}

Embryos and Personhood 240228​

These are people who are trying to have a baby... your cult of death won't work in this case.... {post•16}

your excuses for abortion will never wipe the blood of children off your hands,,

and this personhood crap is the same thing you dems say about black people to justify slavery and other ways you use blacks,, {post•21}

Ohio.....Babies out.....Weed In 231108 {post•70} kyzrwxyz Nov’23 Sobowi: “I'm a pro-choice Republican now, • ¥¥¥ • kyzrwxyz 231108 Srftma00070

Embryos and Personhood 240228​

{post•45} Finally Saint Kyzr agrees with the US Constitution that all human beings must meet a “live birth” requirement to have individual rights to life liberty and pursuit of happiness just like myself and all the others being quoted above have met there own individual live birth separation from their beloved birth mothers as well.

That is; to acquire “personhood” according to the US Constitution, must meet a live birth requirement.

An embryo whether frozen for IVF purposes or living in a natural state of gestation as it enjoys its birth mothers’ biological functions is not a “person” with a right to protections from the state according to one term loser ex-POTUS Donald Trump.

Those who continue to support DJT also support the denial of personhood to fetuses and thus the killing of up to a million baby fetuses every year in America because he is a pro-choice Republican same as Saint Kyzr.
nfbw 240228 Veapyz00045

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Actually you don't. These people intended to have these embryos implanted. That rules out the whole "we don't want it" argument that would make this an allegory to abortion.

They are arguing that frozen embryos have personhood, which they are arguing for a pregnancy.

The AL legislature fight will be historic.

 

[martybegan]

They are arguing that frozen embryos have personhood, which they are arguing for a pregnancy.

The AL legislature fight will be historic.

These people wanted to implant the embryos. I thought intent and choice were the crux of the abortion rights argument?

 

[Arlette]

Is freezing embryos child abuse?

It's the same as freezing toddler. The Alabama decision is so ridiculous you just know it came from religious yahoos.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

the left and their media of course want to try and link it to abortion rights and it has nothing to do with that

Embryos and Personhood 240227 {post•3} Rambunctious Feb’24 Seapyz: This got started by a women who walked into a freezer and dropped some embryos and destroyed them... the donors or parents if you will asked to sue for wrongful death... the judge said yes you may... this is all that is... the left and their media of course want to try and link it to abortion rights and it has nothing to do with that... •¥• Trump to his credit didn't fall for it... rmbncts 240827 Seapyz00003

If the unborn are not “persons” then why don’t women have a right reasonable access to a safe abortion? Abortion cannot be banned by a state because there’s only one sleep I wanna sleep I want to go downstairs and play downstairs and play. What is that? What is that? Is that crazy tall one “person” involved; that is the pregnant woman is the only “person” lol

nfbw 240229 Veapuz00049 to Seapyz00003

 

[JohnDB]

From what I've read regarding the issues:

The Alabama legislature did a poor job of crafting their Anti-abortion legislation. It did not address this particular scenario very well and Alabama Jusctices were very loudly commenting on the incomplete nature of the legislation. They also were reticent to craft new laws by judging...exercising judicial restraint. (Common practice for conservative judges)

However the judges could decide ONE of the questions posed to them and adjudicated upon it. The rest they dumped back on the Alabama legislature to be determined by them.

So....
Conservative Christians do not support abortions.

Are frozen Embryos life?
I've heard arguments on both sides and have had friends looking into "adopting" a frozen embryo. (They were handed a "catalog" complete with pictures of what the children would look like and probable future medical histories and IQs stemming from DNA of the embryos)

The common scripture used is where God tells David (I knew and formed you in your mother's womb)

So....
Kinda a unclear thing....the embryos are not capable of becoming life unless implanted in a womb. ("No womb attachment, no life" was one argument)

But resources of the organic materials to make these are extremely limited and expensive to obtain. In some instances not replacable at all. (Heard of a woman who gave birth to her own uncle)

However, the experimentation which occurs with these embryos does have the ability to cheapen our human lives. Human life is always valuable and special. Each life is unique in its own right. Embryonic stem cell research is at stake here. (Currently illegal)
What would happen if a cure for some common disease was discovered using these techniques?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

These people wanted to implant the embryos. I thought intent and choice were the crux of the abortion rights argument?

And this ruling is taking all of that away. Choice means that the embryos can be destroyed. Personhood means no.

 

[martybegan]

And this ruling is taking all of that away. Choice means that the embryos can be destroyed. Personhood means no.

It's the overboard interpretation of the abortion rights people using this as a weapon saying that, not the judge or the ruling.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Yes, that is what ruling is saying, and why the AL lege will try to fix it.

 

[martybegan]

Yes, that is what ruling is saying, and why the AL lege will try to fix it.

It's an extreme interpretation of the ruling the abortion rights people are using as a bludgeon.

 

[PeterPilot]

The whole deal is as fucked-up as a football bat.

As long as the legislators and courts insist upon forcing religious dogma into civil law, it will never change. The Christian theocracy is every bit as offensive as the Islamic or Jewish theocracy.

 

[1srelluc]

As long as the legislators and courts insist upon forcing religious dogma into civil law, it will never change. The Christian theocracy is every bit as offensive as the Islamic or Jewish theocracy.

Sometimes I think like that....Then I see what the consequences of a leftist "I'll just do what I like" society gets us so I'm not so sure.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

These religous nutters are given too much authority. That judge should be removed from any judging.

 

[sartre play]

This is what happens when you want to control how people think.

 

[ding]

The recent ruling by an Alabama judge has ignited a firestorm in both sides of the reproductive rights community: frozen embryos have full legal personhood rights. This has split Republican lawmakers who are, on the one hand applauding the decision while simultaneously scrambling to enact legislation to carve out a niche for IVF by redefining when an embryo is considered a person.

Florida proposed an amendment to a legislative bill being considered:​

Republican lawmakers in Florida had proposed an amendment to the bill, the same week as the Alabama ruling, to define “unborn child” as a human “at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb.” The change would likely protect IVF patients and doctors, but it remains uncertain whether it would be in any final version the full Legislature were to vote on.​

That raises questions too.

The issue of abortion is one of competing rights: weighing a woman’s right to bodily autonomy against a fetus’ right to life. But with frozen embryos, there are no competing rights.

So what exactly does this mean?

• With abortion does ”full personhood” mean that unless a woman is at death’s door, she cannot act to save her life?
• Does it mean every miscarriage is a potential crime scene?
• Will embryos be claimed as dependents on taxes? Will they get child support?
• Will they even be US citizens? Isn’t birth/born a stipulation there?

With frozen embryos it is even more tricky:

• How can an embryo, implanted in a uterus be given “personhood” rights while an identical embryo, that is frozen, not be?
• Will fathers of frozen embryos be liable for child support for each one?
• If they must remain stored into perpetuity…who pays?
• Can you claim them as dependents?
• If something happens that accidently destroys hundreds of stored embryos…should the person responsible face hundreds of counts of homicide charges?

How can you ethically have a “carve out” for IVF embryos but not implanted embryos?

Note: I put this in CDZ to hopefully have a real discussion as this latest ruling moves the debate beyond abortion.

Absent Federal laws, it’s the state’s call. But at conception it is scientifically correct to say a new, genetically distinct human being has come into existence. One that has never existed before and will never exist again.

 

[PeterPilot]

Sometimes I think like that....Then I see what the consequences of a leftist "I'll just do what I like" society gets us so I'm not so sure.

So what should the thinking be? "I'll just do what the government tells me to do even if there is no lawful authority for it"?