Eisenhower's Times

[Camp]

Here you go. If the annoying stuff really gets to you, read this.

http://history.army.mil/html/books/Mobility_Shock_and_Firepower/CMH_30-23-1.pdf

Get back with us when you come up with a alternative theory about that Mobility-Shock-Firepower doctrine. Should be interesting since your favorite General used the doctrine and even helped implement and write some new chapters for it.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Patton-Genius-War-Carlo-DEste/dp/0060927623]Patton: Genius for War, A: Carlo D'Este: 9780060927622: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

No Frank, screw that deflection crap. You got critical and told me to shut up over my post about how Patton used his armored division the way infantry shock troops were used. You got pretty darn ignorant about it. I posted a link to a book by the US military that gives detailed history about the use of tank warfare from 1917 to 1945 which has in it's title the word SHOCK. Specifically it refers to armor warfare as MOBILITY-SHOCK and FIREPOWER and that is part of the actual title. Your response is a link to a bio about General Patton.
Lame Frank.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Here you go. If the annoying stuff really gets to you, read this.

http://history.army.mil/html/books/Mobility_Shock_and_Firepower/CMH_30-23-1.pdf

Get back with us when you come up with a alternative theory about that Mobility-Shock-Firepower doctrine. Should be interesting since your favorite General used the doctrine and even helped implement and write some new chapters for it.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Patton-Genius-War-Carlo-DEste/dp/0060927623]Patton: Genius for War, A: Carlo D'Este: 9780060927622: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

No Frank, screw that deflection crap. You got critical and told me to shut up over my post about how Patton used his armored division the way infantry shock troops were used. You got pretty darn ignorant about it. I posted a link to a book by the US military that gives detailed history about the use of tank warfare from 1917 to 1945 which has in it's title the word SHOCK. Specifically it refers to armor warfare as MOBILITY-SHOCK and FIREPOWER and that is part of the actual title. Your response is a link to a bio about General Patton.
Lame Frank.

It was to educate you about George Patton and I took it down as a useless, futile gesture

 

[Camp]

Patton: Genius for War, A: Carlo D'Este: 9780060927622: Amazon.com: Books

No Frank, screw that deflection crap. You got critical and told me to shut up over my post about how Patton used his armored division the way infantry shock troops were used. You got pretty darn ignorant about it. I posted a link to a book by the US military that gives detailed history about the use of tank warfare from 1917 to 1945 which has in it's title the word SHOCK. Specifically it refers to armor warfare as MOBILITY-SHOCK and FIREPOWER and that is part of the actual title. Your response is a link to a bio about General Patton.
Lame Frank.

It was to educate you about George Patton and I took it down as a useless, futile gesture

Oh bull, you just don't have a way to respond in an intellectual way. I learned about Patton as a child. An uncle, my Uncle Brownie, served in his HQ as a Major. He never talked about it, but my family followed Patton during the war as you can imagine. Long before my time, but our shelves were full of books about him and his deeds. As a bonus I was able to read the old newspaper and magazine articles written during the war and saved in our attic along with articles about the USS Enterprise, the 82ND AND 101ST Airborne, also units and a ship relatives served with. For some reason articles about the Eighth AF and B-17's weren't kept. That relative, Richard, didn't come home.

So here is a treat for you Frank. Two of your favorites on the same venue. Patton and Reagan.

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=sSByDgizwck]George S. Patton - General of the US Army | American Hero of WW2 | Biography Documentary - YouTube[/ame]

 

[LA RAM FAN]

No Frank, screw that deflection crap. You got critical and told me to shut up over my post about how Patton used his armored division the way infantry shock troops were used. You got pretty darn ignorant about it. I posted a link to a book by the US military that gives detailed history about the use of tank warfare from 1917 to 1945 which has in it's title the word SHOCK. Specifically it refers to armor warfare as MOBILITY-SHOCK and FIREPOWER and that is part of the actual title. Your response is a link to a bio about General Patton.
Lame Frank.

It was to educate you about George Patton and I took it down as a useless, futile gesture

Oh bull, you just don't have a way to respond in an intellectual way. I learned about Patton as a child. An uncle, my Uncle Brownie, served in his HQ as a Major. He never talked about it, but my family followed Patton during the war as you can imagine. Long before my time, but our shelves were full of books about him and his deeds. As a bonus I was able to read the old newspaper and magazine articles written during the war and saved in our attic along with articles about the USS Enterprise, the 82ND AND 101ST Airborne, also units and a ship relatives served with. For some reason articles about the Eighth AF and B-17's weren't kept. That relative, Richard, didn't come home.

So here is a treat for you Frank. Two of your favorites on the same venue. Patton and Reagan.

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=sSByDgizwck]George S. Patton - General of the US Army | American Hero of WW2 | Biography Documentary - YouTube[/ame]

except he throws temper tantrems and goes into meltdown mode having near heart attacks when you expose the myths of reagan, how evil and corrupt he REALLY was and when you shread to pieces the lies of the CIA controlled media that he was a great president. the truth of his cousin Reagan being exposed makes him have to go take his blood pressure pills everytime since the truth scares him to death and he cant handle it and still lives in denial about his distant cousin.

 

[Unkotare]

Anyone recall a less than glorious occasion when MacArthur, Eisenhower, and Patton served together in dubious distinction before WWII?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It was to educate you about George Patton and I took it down as a useless, futile gesture

Oh bull, you just don't have a way to respond in an intellectual way. I learned about Patton as a child. An uncle, my Uncle Brownie, served in his HQ as a Major. He never talked about it, but my family followed Patton during the war as you can imagine. Long before my time, but our shelves were full of books about him and his deeds. As a bonus I was able to read the old newspaper and magazine articles written during the war and saved in our attic along with articles about the USS Enterprise, the 82ND AND 101ST Airborne, also units and a ship relatives served with. For some reason articles about the Eighth AF and B-17's weren't kept. That relative, Richard, didn't come home.

So here is a treat for you Frank. Two of your favorites on the same venue. Patton and Reagan.

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=sSByDgizwck]George S. Patton - General of the US Army | American Hero of WW2 | Biography Documentary - YouTube[/ame]

except he throws temper tantrems and goes into meltdown mode having near heart attacks when you expose the myths of reagan, how evil and corrupt he REALLY was and when you shread to pieces the lies of the CIA controlled media that he was a great president. the truth of his cousin Reagan being exposed makes him have to go take his blood pressure pills everytime since the truth scares him to death and he cant handle it and still lives in denial about his distant cousin.

Say hello to George HW Bush from us willya.

Reagan was a great US President.

Patton was Americas greatest military general

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No Frank, screw that deflection crap. You got critical and told me to shut up over my post about how Patton used his armored division the way infantry shock troops were used. You got pretty darn ignorant about it. I posted a link to a book by the US military that gives detailed history about the use of tank warfare from 1917 to 1945 which has in it's title the word SHOCK. Specifically it refers to armor warfare as MOBILITY-SHOCK and FIREPOWER and that is part of the actual title. Your response is a link to a bio about General Patton.
Lame Frank.

It was to educate you about George Patton and I took it down as a useless, futile gesture

Oh bull, you just don't have a way to respond in an intellectual way. I learned about Patton as a child. An uncle, my Uncle Brownie, served in his HQ as a Major. He never talked about it, but my family followed Patton during the war as you can imagine. Long before my time, but our shelves were full of books about him and his deeds. As a bonus I was able to read the old newspaper and magazine articles written during the war and saved in our attic along with articles about the USS Enterprise, the 82ND AND 101ST Airborne, also units and a ship relatives served with. For some reason articles about the Eighth AF and B-17's weren't kept. That relative, Richard, didn't come home.

So here is a treat for you Frank. Two of your favorites on the same venue. Patton and Reagan.

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=sSByDgizwck]George S. Patton - General of the US Army | American Hero of WW2 | Biography Documentary - YouTube[/ame]

I apologize for the insults. Ignorant statements about Patton just set me off

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

 

[Camp]

Anyone recall a less than glorious occasion when MacArthur, Eisenhower, and Patton served together in dubious distinction before WWII?

I forgot that stuff decades ago. Thanks for the memories. A real BONUS.

 

[regent]

Anyone recall a less than glorious occasion when MacArthur, Eisenhower, and Patton served together in dubious distinction before WWII?

After they had shot a couple of veterans and a baby died in that first bonus army confrontation a new bonus army converged on DC. This time FDR sent Eleanor to talk to the vets instead of MacArthur and friends. Eleanor had coffee with the vets and they posed for some pictures and later the vets went home. The bonus bill was passed over FDR's veto.

 

[whitehall]

Ah, so that's why Republicans nominated and ran Ike for president. Truman could no longer be trusted to follow orders after he sent troops to Korea. So the Republicans and communists looked about for a man they could trust and obey Stalin's orders and nominated Ike. In the end not only was Ike given a fifth star, but also the presidency for following orders. Ike even went to Korea to stop the Americans invasion of peaceful communist Korea and keep to Korea safe from further American aggression. It all is starting to make sense now. And in the end the Republicans were in on the whole plot. It's that fluoridation of water thing, turns brains to putty.

Truman could have legally run for a full 2nd term but Korean Vets sent him packing. He couldn't even muster enough support from democrats to withstand a primary fight. Truman sent Troops to Korea on an executive order and Korea became Truman's war but strangely enough he was afraid of the political and media clout of the general he appointed. MacArthur told the president of the United States that he was too busy to fly to Washington to talk about the situation in Korea and Truman had to pack up and meet him for talks at Wake Island. Truman was intentionally disrespected by MacArthur who wore a disheveled uniform and refused to salute. Next thing you know Truman went along with MacArthur's insane (in a clinical sense) plan to expand the mission and we ended up with not only the biggest ambush in history at Chosin but the loss of 50,000 Troops in three years and an embarrassing truce under Chinese Communist demands when we had the war won before MacArthur's ego trip..

 

[regent]

The beauty of revising history to meet one's politics is that many of the important factors can be omitted, new ones emphasized, and all configured to meet one's political goals. One of factors that is overlooked at times is the diplomacy required to keep the allies killing Germans. I often thought that is one reason Ike was picked instead of a Patton. Patton was a time-bomb waiting to go off, yet he was extremely valuable in the right slot. In the movie Patton there was a scene that was inserted I believe as a sop to WWII infantry soldiers when an enlisted puke says to another, yeah our blood and his guts. How many wars do generals get to become famous?

Another ignorant, dopey fuck.

After the Soldier Slap, Patton and Omar Bradley traded places. Patton would have ended the war in favor of the US and Brits 6 months ahead of Ike/Bradley.

I take back what I said about Camp needing to shut the fuck up, you and he need to tell us all about Patton and WWII

Glad to help, so what do you need to know? Actually I never served with Patton and Camp seems more knowledgeable, but with your "ifs" of history you can have Patton doing just about anything, winning wars galore. Ike put Patton in the right spot and kept him muzzled.

 

[Camp]

By far the best US General of WWII was Lt. Gen. Alexander Patch. He is referred to as the "most underrated" General and that is the truth. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

By far the best US General of WWII was Lt. Gen. Alexander Patch. He is referred to as the "most underrated" General and that is the truth. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I'm gonna use your quote today...stay tuned.


Don't worry, I won't use your name.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

The beauty of revising history to meet one's politics is that many of the important factors can be omitted, new ones emphasized, and all configured to meet one's political goals. One of factors that is overlooked at times is the diplomacy required to keep the allies killing Germans. I often thought that is one reason Ike was picked instead of a Patton. Patton was a time-bomb waiting to go off, yet he was extremely valuable in the right slot. In the movie Patton there was a scene that was inserted I believe as a sop to WWII infantry soldiers when an enlisted puke says to another, yeah our blood and his guts. How many wars do generals get to become famous?

Another ignorant, dopey fuck.

After the Soldier Slap, Patton and Omar Bradley traded places. Patton would have ended the war in favor of the US and Brits 6 months ahead of Ike/Bradley.

I take back what I said about Camp needing to shut the fuck up, you and he need to tell us all about Patton and WWII

Glad to help, so what do you need to know? Actually I never served with Patton and Camp seems more knowledgeable, but with your "ifs" of history you can have Patton doing just about anything, winning wars galore. Ike put Patton in the right spot and kept him muzzled.

Ike Kept Patton Muzzled alright.Traiter Ike,kept patton from taking over berlin giving it away to his pal and FDR's pal,mass murderer Stalin.

I could have taken it (Berlin) had I been allowed.”

Letter from General George Patton to his wife on July 21, 1945.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The beauty of revising history to meet one's politics is that many of the important factors can be omitted, new ones emphasized, and all configured to meet one's political goals. One of factors that is overlooked at times is the diplomacy required to keep the allies killing Germans. I often thought that is one reason Ike was picked instead of a Patton. Patton was a time-bomb waiting to go off, yet he was extremely valuable in the right slot. In the movie Patton there was a scene that was inserted I believe as a sop to WWII infantry soldiers when an enlisted puke says to another, yeah our blood and his guts. How many wars do generals get to become famous?

Another ignorant, dopey fuck.

After the Soldier Slap, Patton and Omar Bradley traded places. Patton would have ended the war in favor of the US and Brits 6 months ahead of Ike/Bradley.

I take back what I said about Camp needing to shut the fuck up, you and he need to tell us all about Patton and WWII

Glad to help, so what do you need to know? Actually I never served with Patton and Camp seems more knowledgeable, but with your "ifs" of history you can have Patton doing just about anything, winning wars galore. Ike put Patton in the right spot and kept him muzzled.

Patton would have closed the Falaise pocket and dealt the Germans bigger defeat than Stalingrad....I thought you and Camp knew this stuff

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

 

[regent]

Another ignorant, dopey fuck.

After the Soldier Slap, Patton and Omar Bradley traded places. Patton would have ended the war in favor of the US and Brits 6 months ahead of Ike/Bradley.

I take back what I said about Camp needing to shut the fuck up, you and he need to tell us all about Patton and WWII

Glad to help, so what do you need to know? Actually I never served with Patton and Camp seems more knowledgeable, but with your "ifs" of history you can have Patton doing just about anything, winning wars galore. Ike put Patton in the right spot and kept him muzzled.

Patton would have closed the Falaise pocket and dealt the Germans bigger defeat than Stalingrad....I thought you and Camp knew this stuff

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

I only know what I read and experience, and when you get into the "IF's" of history, it gets a little garbled, sort of like a board game. Millions of mistakes were made in WWII from the GI that should have dug his slit trench a might deeper, or us shooting down our own paratroopers, to decisions made by generals. And to now go back and re-fight those battles leaving out many other factors of the battle is difficult.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Glad to help, so what do you need to know? Actually I never served with Patton and Camp seems more knowledgeable, but with your "ifs" of history you can have Patton doing just about anything, winning wars galore. Ike put Patton in the right spot and kept him muzzled.

Patton would have closed the Falaise pocket and dealt the Germans bigger defeat than Stalingrad....I thought you and Camp knew this stuff

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

I only know what I read and experience, and when you get into the "IF's" of history, it gets a little garbled, sort of like a board game. Millions of mistakes were made in WWII from the GI that should have dug his slit trench a might deeper, or us shooting down our own paratroopers, to decisions made by generals. And to now go back and re-fight those battles leaving out many other factors of the battle is difficult.

Well, it's a good thing Patton kept a diary and corresponded with people so we have a real time record of what he thought and said.

 

[Camp]

Patton would have closed the Falaise pocket and dealt the Germans bigger defeat than Stalingrad....I thought you and Camp knew this stuff

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

I only know what I read and experience, and when you get into the "IF's" of history, it gets a little garbled, sort of like a board game. Millions of mistakes were made in WWII from the GI that should have dug his slit trench a might deeper, or us shooting down our own paratroopers, to decisions made by generals. And to now go back and re-fight those battles leaving out many other factors of the battle is difficult.

Well, it's a good thing Patton kept a diary and corespondent with people so we have a real time record of what he thought and said.

My opinion is that your are viewing the Falaise engagement and entire situation without taking into consideration the components and potential repercussions if Patton would have been given the orders you propose.
First, the suggestion that Germany would have suffered a defeat comparable to Stalingrad. That just does't make sense, not even mathematical sense. Falaise had approximately 100,000 German troops involved in the area and battle. In the resulting battle, which was the closing battle of Operation Overlord, the Germans lost somewhere in the neighborhood of 20,000 to 30,000 casualties, another 20,000 plus captured and the rest, escaped leaving their equipment, including all of their tanks and artillery on the battlefield. The actual number of dead and escaped is unknown. That is because bulldozers were used to bury the German dead and an accurate count was never made. By the time the allies got to the battlefield which had been bombed by air and artillery to the point of total destruction, the bodies of the Germans that had not been torn to pieces were blotted with gas and had to be shot as a method of releasing the gas before burying in mass grave.
The Germans lost 1.5 million at Stalingrad. That hardly compares to 100,000 troops at Falaise.
Eisenhower chose to use bombs, Polish and British troops instead of Patton to finish off the last operation of OVERLORD, the Normandy Invasion.
Elements of American and Free French forces took part in the battle with a large Canadian involvement.

 

[gipper]

Another ignorant, dopey fuck.

After the Soldier Slap, Patton and Omar Bradley traded places. Patton would have ended the war in favor of the US and Brits 6 months ahead of Ike/Bradley.

I take back what I said about Camp needing to shut the fuck up, you and he need to tell us all about Patton and WWII

Glad to help, so what do you need to know? Actually I never served with Patton and Camp seems more knowledgeable, but with your "ifs" of history you can have Patton doing just about anything, winning wars galore. Ike put Patton in the right spot and kept him muzzled.

Patton would have closed the Falaise pocket and dealt the Germans bigger defeat than Stalingrad....I thought you and Camp knew this stuff

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

Yes what a terrible mistake. Many experts believe had Allied command listened to Patton and allowed him to encircle the Germans at Argentan-Falaise, the war would have ended shortly thereafter. The allies could have marched all the way to Berlin unopposed....now imagine what Stalin would have thought of that.

This might have prevented east Germany from 50 years of hell under the USSR and maybe saved other east Euro nations too.

 

[Camp]

Glad to help, so what do you need to know? Actually I never served with Patton and Camp seems more knowledgeable, but with your "ifs" of history you can have Patton doing just about anything, winning wars galore. Ike put Patton in the right spot and kept him muzzled.

Patton would have closed the Falaise pocket and dealt the Germans bigger defeat than Stalingrad....I thought you and Camp knew this stuff

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

Yes what a terrible mistake. Many experts believe had Allied command listened to Patton and allowed him to encircle the Germans at Argentan-Falaise, the war would have ended shortly thereafter. The allies could have marched all the way to Berlin unopposed....now imagine what Stalin would have thought of that.

This might have prevented east Germany from 50 years of hell under the USSR and maybe saved other east Euro nations too.

Are there any military history experts that actually agree with that and offer some kind of substantive reasons for that opinion?