Eisenhower's Times

[CrusaderFrank]

Frank can pontificate all he wants, and he is still wrong.

One, we could not have continued the war into the East of Europe and had hope for success, for several reasons.

Two, we still had the Japanese to finish off.

Three, we had no idea if the atomic bomb would work.

Fourth, all of our divisions were overseas, and we had no stateside training divisions or cadres or recruits for them.

Fifth, the American electorate would never had accepted attacking the Soviet Union after defeating the Nazis.

Sixth, neither the French, British, or the Poles would have accepted such a dangerous venture.

Jake while you're defending the gains Stalin made, bear in mind that the USAF would have laid waste to entire Soviet armored divisions in little or no time.

One of the lessons learned early in the war against the German divisions is that they could not be bombed into submission. It took ground troops even though we had total control of the skies. The enemy is able to use weather and hiding, stealth and maneuver to counter some of the advantages of air power.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Also, Eisenhower is responsible for Berlin being a divided city. Patton would have been there ahead of the USSR, but after consulting with USSR generals, Eisenhower redirected Patton to locate the non-existent German "National Redoubt". Patton tried to tell Ike he was being a dupe and a moron, but to no avail.

Sure enough, there was no German National Redoubt, the USSR gets half of Berlin and the rest is history

Patton was our wild man and vicious dog that had to be controlled lest he bring about troubles beyond his vision and understanding. He was dependent on an endless supply of material and men and a "blood and guts" attitude. Without that attitude and that endless supply of material, meaning fuel, replacement tanks and manpower he would have been just another General. He was not a General that realistically recognized or understood the big picture.

"wild and vicious dog"? LOL

Just shut the fuck up. I have no patience for your brand of stupid today

 

[gipper]

Also, Eisenhower is responsible for Berlin being a divided city. Patton would have been there ahead of the USSR, but after consulting with USSR generals, Eisenhower redirected Patton to locate the non-existent German "National Redoubt". Patton tried to tell Ike he was being a dupe and a moron, but to no avail.

Sure enough, there was no German National Redoubt, the USSR gets half of Berlin and the rest is history

Patton was our wild man and vicious dog that had to be controlled lest he bring about troubles beyond his vision and understanding. He was dependent on an endless supply of material and men and a "blood and guts" attitude. Without that attitude and that endless supply of material, meaning fuel, replacement tanks and manpower he would have been just another General. He was not a General that realistically recognized or understood the big picture.

Yeah...if only Patton had been removed years earlier, then maybe Stalin would have taken all of Europe...if only....

 

[regent]

Dems are very defensive regarding their ideological forefathers

And well they should be, and maybe this explains it?

"For the framers of the Constitution were the most liberal thinkers of all the ages and the charter they produced out of that liberal revolution of their time has never been and is not now surpassed in liberal thought."

General Douglas MacArthur.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Also, Eisenhower is responsible for Berlin being a divided city. Patton would have been there ahead of the USSR, but after consulting with USSR generals, Eisenhower redirected Patton to locate the non-existent German "National Redoubt". Patton tried to tell Ike he was being a dupe and a moron, but to no avail.

Sure enough, there was no German National Redoubt, the USSR gets half of Berlin and the rest is history

Patton was our wild man and vicious dog that had to be controlled lest he bring about troubles beyond his vision and understanding. He was dependent on an endless supply of material and men and a "blood and guts" attitude. Without that attitude and that endless supply of material, meaning fuel, replacement tanks and manpower he would have been just another General. He was not a General that realistically recognized or understood the big picture.

This is how you know Democrats are descended from Communists.

 

[Camp]

Also, Eisenhower is responsible for Berlin being a divided city. Patton would have been there ahead of the USSR, but after consulting with USSR generals, Eisenhower redirected Patton to locate the non-existent German "National Redoubt". Patton tried to tell Ike he was being a dupe and a moron, but to no avail.

Sure enough, there was no German National Redoubt, the USSR gets half of Berlin and the rest is history

Patton was our wild man and vicious dog that had to be controlled lest he bring about troubles beyond his vision and understanding. He was dependent on an endless supply of material and men and a "blood and guts" attitude. Without that attitude and that endless supply of material, meaning fuel, replacement tanks and manpower he would have been just another General. He was not a General that realistically recognized or understood the big picture.

"wild and vicious dog"? LOL

Just shut the fuck up. I have no patience for your brand of stupid today

Well perhaps you should go cut the grass or find something else to do. Vicious dog is not meant as an insult to Patton you dumb ass. It is a compliment. If you don't understand how the warrior class is organized that is your weakness. A small street gang will have a pit bull and a platoon will have squad of them and a company will have a platoon of them and it goes all the way up the line that way until you have an Army Corp that has an entire Division that is the pit bull, or vicious dog that will attack without fear or mercy.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Dems are very defensive regarding their ideological forefathers

And well they should be, and maybe this explains it?

"For the framers of the Constitution were the most liberal thinkers of all the ages and the charter they produced out of that liberal revolution of their time has never been and is not now surpassed in liberal thought."

General Douglas MacArthur.

Liberals from the 60's were protesting the war and abuse of government powers; today's Liberals are too busy Fluffing Obama to speak out against the drones, IRS or the NSA

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Patton was our wild man and vicious dog that had to be controlled lest he bring about troubles beyond his vision and understanding. He was dependent on an endless supply of material and men and a "blood and guts" attitude. Without that attitude and that endless supply of material, meaning fuel, replacement tanks and manpower he would have been just another General. He was not a General that realistically recognized or understood the big picture.

"wild and vicious dog"? LOL

Just shut the fuck up. I have no patience for your brand of stupid today

Well perhaps you should go cut the grass or find something else to do. Vicious dog is not meant as an insult to Patton you dumb ass. It is a compliment. If you don't understand how the warrior class is organized that is your weakness. A small street gang will have a pit bull and a platoon will have squad of them and a company will have a platoon of them and it goes all the way up the line that way until you have an Army Corp that has an entire Division that is the pit bull, or vicious dog that will attack without fear or mercy.

You're totally fucking ignorant about Patton and WWII in general. Just shut the fuck up

 

[Camp]

Also, Eisenhower is responsible for Berlin being a divided city. Patton would have been there ahead of the USSR, but after consulting with USSR generals, Eisenhower redirected Patton to locate the non-existent German "National Redoubt". Patton tried to tell Ike he was being a dupe and a moron, but to no avail.

Sure enough, there was no German National Redoubt, the USSR gets half of Berlin and the rest is history

Patton was our wild man and vicious dog that had to be controlled lest he bring about troubles beyond his vision and understanding. He was dependent on an endless supply of material and men and a "blood and guts" attitude. Without that attitude and that endless supply of material, meaning fuel, replacement tanks and manpower he would have been just another General. He was not a General that realistically recognized or understood the big picture.

Yeah...if only Patton had been removed years earlier, then maybe Stalin would have taken all of Europe...if only....

That is only the message you get from my post. That is because you are one of those shallow thinkers that have to relate everything to politics and particularly politics of the day. It seems beyond your ability to understand that Patton can be viewed as a General that was greatly needed at the time and was perhaps the only General in the ranks that could perform the way he did, yet have limitations in other areas of endeavor.

 

[Camp]

"wild and vicious dog"? LOL

Just shut the fuck up. I have no patience for your brand of stupid today

Well perhaps you should go cut the grass or find something else to do. Vicious dog is not meant as an insult to Patton you dumb ass. It is a compliment. If you don't understand how the warrior class is organized that is your weakness. A small street gang will have a pit bull and a platoon will have squad of them and a company will have a platoon of them and it goes all the way up the line that way until you have an Army Corp that has an entire Division that is the pit bull, or vicious dog that will attack without fear or mercy.

You're totally fucking ignorant about Patton and WWII in general. Just shut the fuck up

No I'm not. You just don't know how to counter the things I've said so your only recourse is to attack the messenger.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jake while you're defending the gains Stalin made, bear in mind that the USAF would have laid waste to entire Soviet armored divisions in little or no time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcuYbRI7y1M

One of the lessons learned early in the war against the German divisions is that they could not be bombed into submission. It took ground troops even though we had total control of the skies. The enemy is able to use weather and hiding, stealth and maneuver to counter some of the advantages of air power.

Frank, (1) you are wrong on the effect of aerial warfare against the vast geography of the USSR, and (2) you have no idea what formations were and were not available.

No such war could have succeeded. And a typical McCarthyite like statement from you that I was defending Stalin's successes.

Your reactionary propaganda does not substitute for fact and objectivity.

 

[Camp]

Patton was our General in command of our armored version of shock troops. People who worship Patton usually are people who don't know the difference between shock troops and regular maneuver infantry. They have no concept of the specific roles of specifically trained units and hence can't possible relate to military field tactics.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Also, Eisenhower is responsible for Berlin being a divided city. Patton would have been there ahead of the USSR, but after consulting with USSR generals, Eisenhower redirected Patton to locate the non-existent German "National Redoubt". Patton tried to tell Ike he was being a dupe and a moron, but to no avail.

Sure enough, there was no German National Redoubt, the USSR gets half of Berlin and the rest is history

Patton was our wild man and vicious dog that had to be controlled lest he bring about troubles beyond his vision and understanding. He was dependent on an endless supply of material and men and a "blood and guts" attitude. Without that attitude and that endless supply of material, meaning fuel, replacement tanks and manpower he would have been just another General. He was not a General that realistically recognized or understood the big picture.

Yeah...if only Patton had been removed years earlier, then maybe Stalin would have taken all of Europe...if only....

exactly.that couldnt be anything further from the truth that Patton didnt recognize or understand the big picture. Patton more than anybody,saw what an evil tyrant Stalin was and how russia was the REAL enemy.as you can see from this link,he said he could have taken Berlin but Eisenhower would not let him and stopped him and would not allow him to do so. any wonder he died very mysteriously afterwards.

funny how when I expose how corrupt and evil Eisenhower really was and Patton was actually a bright man with this link below,that it goes ignored EVERYTIME.

I could have taken it (Berlin) had I been allowed.”

Letter from General George Patton to his wife on July 21, 1945.

By stopping General Patton's advance and handing Eastern Germany to Stalin, "Ike" enabled the mass rapes and murders.
Who Else Liked Ike? Stalin; That's Who!

 

[Camp]

Patton did not see the big picture, he saw an element of it, but that is where his vision stopped. His vision of USSR taking control of Eastern Europe was not unique. It had been discussed and debated in Washington and London and it's fate concluded. What Patton did not "see" were the political repercussions if the war continued as he proposed. America would not support a continued war to "free" the people of what looked like and had always been a perfectly good buffer zone between the USSR and the western allies of Europe. If Patton's advice had been followed America would vote out the leaders that subjected the nation to more sacrifice to achieve a stalemate with the loss of hundreds of thousand of troops and install one that was isolationist and would abandon all of Europe to their own hopeless future that would allow the USSR to grow to enormous power and wealth and have to be dealt with eventually. Eastern Europe was a burden placed on the USSR that gave the USA the chance to build the western allies into strong economic powers and created a military powerhouse that would neutralize USSR dreams of further expansion.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

One of the lessons learned early in the war against the German divisions is that they could not be bombed into submission. It took ground troops even though we had total control of the skies. The enemy is able to use weather and hiding, stealth and maneuver to counter some of the advantages of air power.

Frank, (1) you are wrong on the effect of aerial warfare against the vast geography of the USSR, and (2) you have no idea what formations were and were not available.

No such war could have succeeded. And a typical McCarthyite like statement from you that I was defending Stalin's successes.

Your reactionary propaganda does not substitute for fact and objectivity.

Jake, As usual your reflexive defense of Stalin and Communism makes you look foolish and exposes you as the Komrade we know you to be.

I don't know how you post something like "aerial warfare against the vast geography of the USSR". Do you think they just bomb and strafe the entire country and just hit tanks at random??

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Patton was our General in command of our armored version of shock troops. People who worship Patton usually are people who don't know the difference between shock troops and regular maneuver infantry. They have no concept of the specific roles of specifically trained units and hence can't possible relate to military field tactics.

I beg you to shut the fuck up. Besides annoying me with your ignorance, you're embarrassing yourself. I'm actually doing you a favor

 

[Camp]

Patton was our General in command of our armored version of shock troops. People who worship Patton usually are people who don't know the difference between shock troops and regular maneuver infantry. They have no concept of the specific roles of specifically trained units and hence can't possible relate to military field tactics.

I beg you to shut the fuck up. Besides annoying me with your ignorance, you're embarrassing yourself. I'm actually doing you a favor

I wish someone with actual knowledge would counter some of the specifics regarding military tactics and strategy in my comments. I debated the Italian campaign yesterday on this thread and provided numerous links to help understand that aspect and engagement and how it effected the war effort. This Patton thing is just a deflection with only minor connections to the topic of the OP, but it is what it is.
If you have a problem with being annoyed it is because you are frustrated that you can not argue your point with anything other than whining and nonsense. If Patton was not used as a tactical version of an armored shock troop element, explain why the analysis or conclusion is wrong. I welcome the review and alternate explanation. Your crap is just crap. You are the annoying embarrassment.

 

[Camp]

Here you go. If the annoying stuff really gets to you, read this.

http://history.army.mil/html/books/Mobility_Shock_and_Firepower/CMH_30-23-1.pdf

Get back with us when you come up with a alternative theory about that Mobility-Shock-Firepower doctrine. Should be interesting since your favorite General used the doctrine and even helped implement and write some new chapters for it.

 

[regent]

The beauty of revising history to meet one's politics is that many of the important factors can be omitted, new ones emphasized, and all configured to meet one's political goals. One of factors that is overlooked at times is the diplomacy required to keep the allies killing Germans. I often thought that is one reason Ike was picked instead of a Patton. Patton was a time-bomb waiting to go off, yet he was extremely valuable in the right slot. In the movie Patton there was a scene that was inserted I believe as a sop to WWII infantry soldiers when an enlisted puke says to another, yeah our blood and his guts. How many wars do generals get to become famous?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The beauty of revising history to meet one's politics is that many of the important factors can be omitted, new ones emphasized, and all configured to meet one's political goals. One of factors that is overlooked at times is the diplomacy required to keep the allies killing Germans. I often thought that is one reason Ike was picked instead of a Patton. Patton was a time-bomb waiting to go off, yet he was extremely valuable in the right slot. In the movie Patton there was a scene that was inserted I believe as a sop to WWII infantry soldiers when an enlisted puke says to another, yeah our blood and his guts. How many wars do generals get to become famous?

Another ignorant, dopey fuck.

After the Soldier Slap, Patton and Omar Bradley traded places. Patton would have ended the war in favor of the US and Brits 6 months ahead of Ike/Bradley.

I take back what I said about Camp needing to shut the fuck up, you and he need to tell us all about Patton and WWII