Egypt: Look Before You Leap

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by PoliticalChic, Mar 27, 2011.

  1. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    Over the past several weeks, developments in Egypt have proven just as those of us who urged caution had warned.

    Of course, we all want to see democracy pullulate, but the lesson of Egypt is that democracy doesn't always mean democracy. In fact, any opinion of the uprising is apt to be uninformed if one hasn't studied Islamism.

    1. There was the warning that, sans the 'tyrant' Mubarak, was ripe for being taken over by the Muslim Brotherhood. "The Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group once banned by the state, is at the forefront,.." http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/world/middleeast/25egypt.html?_r=3

    a. "the young, educated secular activists who initially propelled the nonideological revolution are no longer the driving political force..."Ibid.

    b. "“There is evidence the Brotherhood struck some kind of a deal with the military early on,” Ibid.

    2. In fact, several of the individuals assigned to write a new constitution were, in fact, members of the Muslim Brotherhood. " A Brotherhood member was also appointed to the committee that drafted amendments to the Constitution. NYTimes, op.cit.
    a. "the Muslim Brotherhood in a square in Alexandria instructed voters that it was their “religious duty” to vote “yes” on the amendments. In the end, 77.2 percent of those who voted said yes." NYTImes, Ibid.

    b. There are representatives of the Muslim Brotherhood in the group that is writing a constitution for Egypt…and their input will produce an Islamist document.Egypt’s Writing of A New Constitution Holds Little or No Room for Egyptian Chrisitans and Women | Chandler's Watch

    3. Iranian ships were allowed through the Suez Canal. Egypt banks, pyramids open, some protest in Cairo - The West Australian

    4. In an ominous sign of things to come in Egypt, Christians were called upon during Friday’s service held in Cairo’s Tahrir Square, to bow down and submit to Allah….the words can only mean one thing; that Christians must bow down and submit to Allah and eventually live under Sharia rule. Tahrir Square

    a. "rise and the overpowering force of Islam." NYTimes, op.cit.

    b. In a Friday sermon delivered by Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, perhaps the leading current intellectual force behind the Muslim Brotherhood, the imam delivered a blistering diatribe to an estimated crowd of 1M gathered at Tahrir Square, Cairo, urging war with Israel and conquest of Jerusalem. Sheikh Al-Qaradawi, Friday Prayers In Tahrir Square - Sheikh Al-Qaradawi, Friday Prayers In Tahrir Square - "Pray-by PipeLineNews.org

    c. Two important things happened during Qaradawi’s appearance in Cairo. First, his handlers refused to allow Google’s Egyptian Internet revolutionary Wael Ghonim to join the cleric on the dais. For anyone willing to notice, Qaradawi’s message in spurning Ghonim was indisputable. As far as the jihadists are concerned, Ghonim and his fellow Internet activists are the present day equivalent of Lenin’s useful idiots. Caroline B. Glick: Egypt's Useful Idiots - Israel Insider

    5. Thousands of prisoners have been freed from Egyptian prisons, many of them...you guessed it, Muslim Brootherhood members.Egypt releases political prisoners, as Tahrir shuns pop star - Channel 4 News

    6. "Egypt resumed supplying Israel with natural gas after a six-week interruption" Egypt resumes supply of gas to Israel | j. the Jewish news weekly of Northern California


    7. Arab League chief Amr Moussa said that he plans to run for president in his native Egypt , supported the Libyan intervention, but when bombing began, he protested "bombing, Oh, no...I didn't mean that..." Egypt News - Arab League chief Musa to run for Egypt president and Ronju01: Only Amr Musa is against the bombing and he'll run

    8. Look closely at the uprisings throughout the region...and watch for green flags, the color of Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.

    With a weak and ideologically imbued - and inconsistent- President, the United States should be very careful as to which side we jump to, and how firmly we jump.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 27, 2011
  2. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    … several common assumptions each of which played a major role in hastening the victory of even more repressive dictatorships than had been in place before. These were, first, the belief that there existed at the moment of crisis a democratic alternative to the incumbent government: second, the belief that the continuation of the status quo was not possible; third, the belief that any change, including the establishment of a government headed by self-styled Marxist revolutionaries, was preferable to the present government. Each of these beliefs was (and is) widely shared in the liberal community generally. Not one of them can withstand close scrutiny.
    Jeane Kirkpatrick
    Dictatorships & Double Standards « Commentary Magazine
     
  3. zzzz
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    zzzz Just a regular American

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    These uprising cannot be attributed to one thing. The widespread availability of the internet, the rampant inflation of food prices and shortages, the longstanding reign of current restrictive governments, unemployment and the worldwide economic recession have laid the foundation for insurrection and widespread disillusion. All it took was a spark (Tunisia) and the flames were spread across North Africa and are lapping all over the middle east. Even Iran is concerned about the tide coming their way.

    While most in the west see these uprising as being something good, what arises out of the ashes are not always something we want to see. In Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood joined the party late but they are organized and are able to quickly fill any void. The same with Hamas and other organizations. That is the danger. The anti western organizations are already there and they are the only groups other than the military who can readily organize. So when the firestorm of 2011 dies out we can expect a more hostile Arab world, not only against the US and the West but Israel. The threat of another Arab-Israeli war is just an image in the fog at present but as that fog dissipates war becomes more concrete and the cost of oil and gas skyrockets.
     
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  4. Big Fitz
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    Yep... this just in from our "No Shit Sherlock" dept.

    I saw this coming the instant the demands for Mubarak's toppling was demanded without compromise. And like spoiled children who won the battle of bedtime with their parents are now running amok around the world.

    Throw a tantrum and get your way.
     
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  5. Big Fitz
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    The idealists and secular 'reformers' are happy, sated and worn out. Now it's for the opportunists and scavengers to rule the battlefield while the victors revel and relax and boast of their conquest. When they return they will find their conquered land occupied by a much more dangerous foe who has less compunction about killing them off to maintain their power.

    A cycle as old as man.
     
  6. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    1. As long as Muslim Brotherhood is not involved in criminal activities you can't ban them and throw them into jail.

    2. If Egyptians want a constitution representing all of society, then people from Muslim Brotherhood will contribute to it.
    You claim, that Muslim Brotherhood is leading political force in Egypt, but want to exclude them from being represented in committees to amend the constitution?
    Sounds like Dictatorship and not inclusive Democracy.

    3. Why shouldn't Iranian ships be allowed to sail through Suez?

    5. As long as they have no criminal record, they should be released.

    6. Poor negotiated contract, otherwise Israelis would take Egyptians to court for breaking contract.

    8. If that assumption turns out to be true, you have to live with it. Especially when conservative parties come to power without major election irregularities.
     
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  7. Ropey
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    Ropey To Life! Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    It's all alla akber anyway...
     
  8. percysunshine
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    percysunshine Gold Member

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    If we sic the Baptists on the Muslims, we could sell tickets.
     
  9. Big Fitz
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    When's the last time a Baptist blew up a bus station killing random people?
     
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  10. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    Egypt is one of the winning cards in the geopolitical card-game.
    The Egyptian people kicked off an internal dynamic, which can't be controlled from outside.

    There is no other option besides cooperating with Egypt no matter who really will govern Egypt. So long as the USA still wants to play Superpower game.
     

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