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No you didn't. You took one quote out of context changed the words slightly, and then created your own context even though the same link specifically contradicts your spin.You are both wrong, flatly.
I've presented my case with a link to back me up. And although, it is not from a source of authority, it is a from a source that presents the case as I see it. I may be wrong as you say.
You've presented your case with nothing but opinion.
I'd love to see your case supported by something more than opinion.
Immie
Single-payer isn't socialized medicine...
it's socialized insurance. What's the difference? Socialized medicine is the system in the UK--the government owns the hospitals, employs the doctors. Socialzed insurance is the system in Canada--the government pays the hospitals, and pays the dotors--but hospitals and doctors are still part of the private sector. Everyone cares who their doctor is, but do you really care who pays your doctor?
No you didn't. You took one quote out of context changed the words slightly, and then created your own context even though the same link specifically contradicts your spin.You are both wrong, flatly.
I've presented my case with a link to back me up. And although, it is not from a source of authority, it is a from a source that presents the case as I see it. I may be wrong as you say.
You've presented your case with nothing but opinion.
I'd love to see your case supported by something more than opinion.
Immie
Here's what you left out from the same link:
Single-payer isn't socialized medicine...
it's socialized insurance. What's the difference? Socialized medicine is the system in the UK--the government owns the hospitals, employs the doctors. Socialzed insurance is the system in Canada--the government pays the hospitals, and pays the dotors--but hospitals and doctors are still part of the private sector. Everyone cares who their doctor is, but do you really care who pays your doctor?
Because the link doesn't say that EXACTLY, does it?!!! You said that by leaving out something else the link said that qualifies what you said, didn't you!!!and yet you completely gloss over the fact that there is an entire medical equipment supply chain and people who earn money for their services involved with health insurance premiums that WILL NOT lower it's prices or take pay cuts.
Typical. Bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist.
Put them in competition with each other for a single payer contract, and the contracts will come down and the services will improve. That's how modern capitlism works.
And how would you address the point in the link provided by Ed, that private health insurance was scheduled to be terminated?
Immie
organizations that actually employed doctors (like Kaiser Permanente in California) would be allowed to continue to operate.
Like I said, you can't be honest about anything.You can't be honest about anything.
HIS word was "universal" and you didn't take him at HIS word. YOUR word, or more accurately your MessiahRushie's word, was "nationalize" and that's the word YOU used because you rationalized that's what was in his mind when he said "universal."
And please don't project your sexual fantasies on me.
Thank you.
Welcome back Michael Savage.
His words were "Single Payer Health Care". Which means Nationalized Health Care.
You have just been proven a liar.
Immie
His words were "Single Payer Health Care" YOUR words were "Nationalized Health Care."
They do NOT mean the same thing. Single payer refers only to how it is paid for NOT how it is delivered. Nationalized health care refers to how it is delivered.
From the earlier Wikipedia link, so you have no excuse for your dishonesty:
Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom). The term single-payer thus only describes the funding mechanismreferring to health care being paid for by a single public body from a single fundand does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work.
Like I said, you can't be honest about anything.Welcome back Michael Savage.
His words were "Single Payer Health Care". Which means Nationalized Health Care.
You have just been proven a liar.
Immie
His words were "Single Payer Health Care" YOUR words were "Nationalized Health Care."
They do NOT mean the same thing. Single payer refers only to how it is paid for NOT how it is delivered. Nationalized health care refers to how it is delivered.
From the earlier Wikipedia link, so you have no excuse for your dishonesty:
Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom). The term single-payer thus only describes the funding mechanismreferring to health care being paid for by a single public body from a single fundand does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work.
They are the same thing Michael whether you have the courage to admit it or not.
Your messiah has promised this country to provide a Single Payer Health Care System aka Nationalized Health Care System within 15-20 years.
You don't have the honesty to admit it.
He was talking about the government the government being the single payer, not AETNA. You know it and I know it.
It has been what he, Harry and Nancy have been striving to provide all along. It was what they wanted this time around with the Public Option, but they could not get the votes to pull it off. Your messiah said that was what he wants but stated that he realized it would take 15-20 years to accomplish.
You are simply to dishonest to admit it.
You are also, to much of a damned coward to actually debate the issue without whining that other people are liars because they don't agree with your sorry ass.
Immie
Single payer refers only to how it is paid for NOT how it is delivered. Nationalized health care refers to how it is delivered.
Because the link doesn't say that EXACTLY, does it?!!! You said that by leaving out something else the link said that qualifies what you said, didn't you!!!Put them in competition with each other for a single payer contract, and the contracts will come down and the services will improve. That's how modern capitlism works.
And how would you address the point in the link provided by Ed, that private health insurance was scheduled to be terminated?
Immie
Here's the part you dishonestly leave out:
organizations that actually employed doctors (like Kaiser Permanente in California) would be allowed to continue to operate.
What do you think Obama meant by Single Payer - and who would that Single Payer would be?
If it's the government, then it's Nationalized Health Care.
No, it is not.
Because the link doesn't say that EXACTLY, does it?!!! You said that by leaving out something else the link said that qualifies what you said, didn't you!!!Put them in competition with each other for a single payer contract, and the contracts will come down and the services will improve. That's how modern capitlism works.
And how would you address the point in the link provided by Ed, that private health insurance was scheduled to be terminated?
Immie
Here's the part you dishonestly leave out:
organizations that actually employed doctors (like Kaiser Permanente in California) would be allowed to continue to operate.
Health Insurance Industry
The health insurance industry would be mostly eliminated--only organizations that actually employed doctors (like Kaiser Permanente in California) would be allowed to continue to operate. One single-payer bill would provide one percent of funding for retraining displaced insurance workers during its first few years of implementation.
Single payer refers only to how it is paid for NOT how it is delivered. Nationalized health care refers to how it is delivered.
You have to be pretty desperate to pretend deliverer and provider are not the same.No it's you changing my words just like you changed Obama's words.You can't be honest about anything.
HIS word was "universal" and you didn't take him at HIS word. YOUR word, or more accurately your MessiahRushie's word, was "nationalize" and that's the word YOU used because you rationalized that's what was in his mind when he said "universal."
As I have said ALL ALONG, single payer does not mean nationalized health CARE, it is solely concerned with how the CARE is PAID FOR and NOT how it is delivered/provided.
No, it is you who has changed your wording. I never once said any thing at all about how medical care was delivered. Every one of my posts have clearly stated this was about health insurance. Everyone you quoted above and everyone in the past. You on the other hand, have gone from a clearly defined term, "Health Care" (defined by the legislation itself) and suddenly changed your tune to "Provider".
It is you that changed, not me. This was, I believe and if you show me otherwise, I will accept it, the first time that you mentioned "provider". Prior to that, we had clearly been discussing Health Insurance as defined by the legislation.
Again, as the site makes very clear, the single PAYER is NOT the PROVIDER of health care services no matter how much you pontificate otherwise. Health CARE is NOT nationalized.
Immie
And as the link CLEARLY says they are NOT scheduled for termination, contrary to your claim of what the link says.Because the link doesn't say that EXACTLY, does it?!!! You said that by leaving out something else the link said that qualifies what you said, didn't you!!!And how would you address the point in the link provided by Ed, that private health insurance was scheduled to be terminated?
Immie
Here's the part you dishonestly leave out:
organizations that actually employed doctors (like Kaiser Permanente in California) would be allowed to continue to operate.
Before you make a fool of yourself, do you know anything at all about Kaiser?
Believe me, I do. They ARE medical provider. You buy "insurance" from them and when you need medical care, you go to their hospitals. In fact, I was cared for as a kid in their hospitals and everyone of my three children were born in a Kaiser Hospital.
Immie
Single payer refers only to how it is paid for NOT how it is delivered. Nationalized health care refers to how it is delivered.You have to be pretty desperate to pretend deliverer and provider are not the same.No, it is you who has changed your wording. I never once said any thing at all about how medical care was delivered. Every one of my posts have clearly stated this was about health insurance. Everyone you quoted above and everyone in the past. You on the other hand, have gone from a clearly defined term, "Health Care" (defined by the legislation itself) and suddenly changed your tune to "Provider".
It is you that changed, not me. This was, I believe and if you show me otherwise, I will accept it, the first time that you mentioned "provider". Prior to that, we had clearly been discussing Health Insurance as defined by the legislation.
Again, as the site makes very clear, the single PAYER is NOT the PROVIDER of health care services no matter how much you pontificate otherwise. Health CARE is NOT nationalized.
Immie
I'm still waiting for Ed to explain what it is when the Government is the Single Payer, Sets Prices, and mandates that individuals purchase a service against their wills.
Single payer refers only to how it is paid for NOT how it is delivered. Nationalized health care refers to how it is delivered.You have to be pretty desperate to pretend deliverer and provider are not the same.No, it is you who has changed your wording. I never once said any thing at all about how medical care was delivered. Every one of my posts have clearly stated this was about health insurance. Everyone you quoted above and everyone in the past. You on the other hand, have gone from a clearly defined term, "Health Care" (defined by the legislation itself) and suddenly changed your tune to "Provider".
It is you that changed, not me. This was, I believe and if you show me otherwise, I will accept it, the first time that you mentioned "provider". Prior to that, we had clearly been discussing Health Insurance as defined by the legislation.
Immie
Um, I think that first quote in your post is from you not me.
Have yo lost your mind?
Immie
Like I said, you can't be honest about anything.You can't be honest about anything.
HIS word was "universal" and you didn't take him at HIS word. YOUR word, or more accurately your MessiahRushie's word, was "nationalize" and that's the word YOU used because you rationalized that's what was in his mind when he said "universal."
And please don't project your sexual fantasies on me.
Thank you.
Welcome back Michael Savage.
His words were "Single Payer Health Care". Which means Nationalized Health Care.
You have just been proven a liar.
Immie
His words were "Single Payer Health Care" YOUR words were "Nationalized Health Care."
They do NOT mean the same thing. Single payer refers only to how it is paid for NOT how it is delivered. Nationalized health care refers to how it is delivered.
From the earlier Wikipedia link, so you have no excuse for your dishonesty:
Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom). The term single-payer thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care being paid for by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work.
That's right, the first quote is mine and the only difference is i used "delivered" instead of "provided" which is no difference at all. So you are still full of it when you claimed I changed when I used provided.Single payer refers only to how it is paid for NOT how it is delivered. Nationalized health care refers to how it is delivered.You have to be pretty desperate to pretend deliverer and provider are not the same.No, it is you who has changed your wording. I never once said any thing at all about how medical care was delivered. Every one of my posts have clearly stated this was about health insurance. Everyone you quoted above and everyone in the past. You on the other hand, have gone from a clearly defined term, "Health Care" (defined by the legislation itself) and suddenly changed your tune to "Provider".
It is you that changed, not me. This was, I believe and if you show me otherwise, I will accept it, the first time that you mentioned "provider". Prior to that, we had clearly been discussing Health Insurance as defined by the legislation.
Immie
Um, I think that first quote in your post is from you not me.
Have yo lost your mind?
Immie
As you well know, it is something quite DIFFERENT from the health care bill that just passed.I'm still waiting for Ed to explain what it is when the Government is the Single Payer, Sets Prices, and mandates that individuals purchase a service against their wills.
That's right, the first quote is mine and the only difference is i used "delivered" instead of "provided" which is no difference at all. So you are still full of it when you claimed I changed when I used provided.You have to be pretty desperate to pretend deliverer and provider are not the same.
Um, I think that first quote in your post is from you not me.
Have yo lost your mind?
Immie
And for the record, I do see in your post that you state:
Single payer refers only to how it is paid for NOT how it is delivered. Nationalized health care refers to how it is delivered.
I had missed that last night.
From my point of view this discussion has always been about Health Insurance.
Please quit your deceptive practices in reference to changing my words.
Your contention has always been single payer is socialized health care. I'm glad to see you have finally backed off from that.You have to be pretty desperate to pretend deliverer and provider are not the same.
Um, I think that first quote in your post is from you not me.
Have yo lost your mind?
Immie
Um, yes, as a matter of fact, you have lost your mind. That was a direct quote from you:
Like I said, you can't be honest about anything.
His words were "Single Payer Health Care" YOUR words were "Nationalized Health Care."
They do NOT mean the same thing. Single payer refers only to how it is paid for NOT how it is delivered. Nationalized health care refers to how it is delivered.
From the earlier Wikipedia link, so you have no excuse for your dishonesty:
Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom). The term single-payer thus only describes the funding mechanismreferring to health care being paid for by a single public body from a single fundand does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work.
I think you have realized that you have been beaten and now are desperately attempting to change my words. No where did I claim providers and delivers were not the same thing, but we have not been discussing providers as the issue here, we have been discussing health insurance. Kaiser has a unique niche. They are both, insurer AND provider. AETNA, United Healthcare are not providers, they are insurers. Kaiser will be ALLOWED (by the grace of your messiah) to continue albeit in a non-profit form, while AETNA and United Healthcare and all the others will be terminated.
My contention has always been that this is a discussion about health insurance. Now you want to make it sound as if I was discussing medical providers. You are dishonestly attempting to change my argument. Face it, you have been proven to be dishonest.
Immie
Your contention has always been single payer is socialized health care. I'm glad to see you have finally backed off from that.Um, I think that first quote in your post is from you not me.
Have yo lost your mind?
Immie
Um, yes, as a matter of fact, you have lost your mind. That was a direct quote from you:
Like I said, you can't be honest about anything.
His words were "Single Payer Health Care" YOUR words were "Nationalized Health Care."
They do NOT mean the same thing. Single payer refers only to how it is paid for NOT how it is delivered. Nationalized health care refers to how it is delivered.
From the earlier Wikipedia link, so you have no excuse for your dishonesty:
I think you have realized that you have been beaten and now are desperately attempting to change my words. No where did I claim providers and delivers were not the same thing, but we have not been discussing providers as the issue here, we have been discussing health insurance. Kaiser has a unique niche. They are both, insurer AND provider. AETNA, United Healthcare are not providers, they are insurers. Kaiser will be ALLOWED (by the grace of your messiah) to continue albeit in a non-profit form, while AETNA and United Healthcare and all the others will be terminated.
My contention has always been that this is a discussion about health insurance. Now you want to make it sound as if I was discussing medical providers. You are dishonestly attempting to change my argument. Face it, you have been proven to be dishonest.
Immie
