Economy grows for the third straight quarter

[PatekPhilippe]

You are both wrong, flatly.

Discuss.

 

[edthecynic]

You can't be honest about anything.

HIS word was "universal" and you didn't take him at HIS word. YOUR word, or more accurately your MessiahRushie's word, was "nationalize" and that's the word YOU used because you rationalized that's what was in his mind when he said "universal."

Welcome back Michael Savage.

His words were "Single Payer Health Care". Which means Nationalized Health Care.

You have just been proven a liar.

Immie

Like I said, you can't be honest about anything.

His words were "Single Payer Health Care" YOUR words were "Nationalized Health Care."
They do NOT mean the same thing. Single payer refers only to how it is paid for NOT how it is delivered. Nationalized health care refers to how it is delivered.

From the earlier Wikipedia link, so you have no excuse for your dishonesty:

Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom). The term single-payer thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care being paid for by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work.

They are the same thing Michael whether you have the courage to admit it or not.

Your messiah has promised this country to provide a Single Payer Health Care System aka Nationalized Health Care System within 15-20 years.

You don't have the honesty to admit it.

He was talking about the government the government being the single payer, not AETNA. You know it and I know it.

It has been what he, Harry and Nancy have been striving to provide all along. It was what they wanted this time around with the Public Option, but they could not get the votes to pull it off. Your messiah said that was what he wants but stated that he realized it would take 15-20 years to accomplish.

You are simply to dishonest to admit it.

You are also, to much of a damned coward to actually debate the issue without whining that other people are liars because they don't agree with your sorry ass.

Immie

They are NOT the same thing, Stuttering LimpTard, even though you lack the honesty to admit it. Even after the difference was explained in the Wiki link, you choose to continue to lie in typical CON$ervoFascist fashion. You actually compounded your lie by claiming that the Gov was the single payer when the single payer can also be a POOL in addition to repeating your earlier lie.

Again from the earlier Wiki link, so again you have no excuse for your dishonesty:

Single-payer health care is the financing of the costs of delivering universal health care for an entire population through a single insurance pool out of which costs are met. There may be many contributors to the single pool (insured persons, employers, government, etc.)

Wikipedia! You use that as proof text? I'll admit sometimes there is decent information posted in there but it cannot be use as proof text. And despite what Wiki has to say, any intelligent human being (I know that bars you) can tell exactly what Barack Obama has in mind.

Learn how to discuss an issue, Michael.

They are the same thing. If you had one ounce of intelligence you would understand what Barack Obama was saying he wanted. And if you have even a milligram of honesty, even if you didn't agree then you would have the intelligence to actually state your believes rather than fall back on the cowards... "you're a liar".

You can't fucking defend your case so you can only whine... "You are a liar".

In other words, if you could defend yourself sorry ass then you would tell me exactly what he meant, not what he didn't mean. You can't because you know what he meant and you won't admit you are wrong.

Immie

How Would It Work | Single-Payer: Answers and Facts about Health Care for All

Again, as the site makes very clear, the single PAYER is NOT the PROVIDER of health care services no matter how much you pontificate otherwise. Health CARE is NOT nationalized.

No one ever said that the single payer was the provider of medical care. I believe you are changing your words around as I don't believe you have ever made that distinction in our discussions before and I am also certain that you know and knew what we have been discussing all along. Suddenly you are throwing "provider" in there when you know as well as I do, that we have been discussing the Health Insurance Industry for over a year. For over a year, this debate has not been about the providers of medical services (the doctors, nurses etc.) but rather health insurance. The government defined "Health Care" as "Health Insurance" in their own bill.

Another thing I believe is that I fell for your trap. You have been trying to make that point all along. You knew what I was saying and you have been trying to get me to see that there was a difference between, "medical care" and "health insurance". That was why you gave me a link that clearly stated my position and debunked the one that I thought you were making.

Well, I have always known that and I have always been discussing this system as reform of the Health Insurance Industry. Health Care Reform as passed by Congress and signed by the President has very little to do with medical care in this country. It deals with paying for it via health insurance.

There is not one thing in my comments that would lead anyone at all to the belief that the single payer is the health (aka medical) care provider. Just as Health Care Reform is not about reforming the Medical Provider Industry but rather the Health Insurance Industry, the Single Payer system is NATIONALIZED HEALTH INSURANCE. That is what I have said all along.

And that is exactly what the link you provided says.

The Single Payer system is Nationalized Health Insurance; here, in Canada, in the UK, everywhere. It is the elimination of thousands upon thousands of jobs in the US in health insurance aka health care industry.

It is the consolidation of all of our health insurance under the big tent of the Federal Government and that is exactly the problem. As I said, there are some good things that would come from it, but there are some very bad things as well... uncontrollable taxes is just one of those.

Immie

No it's you changing my words just like you changed Obama's words.
As I have said ALL ALONG, single payer does not mean nationalized health CARE, it is solely concerned with how the CARE is PAID FOR and NOT how it is delivered/provided.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

You can't be honest about anything.

HIS word was "universal" and you didn't take him at HIS word. YOUR word, or more accurately your MessiahRushie's word, was "nationalize" and that's the word YOU used because you rationalized that's what was in his mind when he said "universal."

They are the same thing Michael whether you have the courage to admit it or not.

Your messiah has promised this country to provide a Single Payer Health Care System aka Nationalized Health Care System within 15-20 years.

You don't have the honesty to admit it.

He was talking about the government the government being the single payer, not AETNA. You know it and I know it.

It has been what he, Harry and Nancy have been striving to provide all along. It was what they wanted this time around with the Public Option, but they could not get the votes to pull it off. Your messiah said that was what he wants but stated that he realized it would take 15-20 years to accomplish.

You are simply to dishonest to admit it.

You are also, to much of a damned coward to actually debate the issue without whining that other people are liars because they don't agree with your sorry ass.

Immie

Again, as the site makes very clear, the single PAYER is NOT the PROVIDER of health care services no matter how much you pontificate otherwise. Health CARE is NOT nationalized.

No one ever said that the single payer was the provider of medical care. I believe you are changing your words around as I don't believe you have ever made that distinction in our discussions before and I am also certain that you know and knew what we have been discussing all along. Suddenly you are throwing "provider" in there when you know as well as I do, that we have been discussing the Health Insurance Industry for over a year. For over a year, this debate has not been about the providers of medical services (the doctors, nurses etc.) but rather health insurance. The government defined "Health Care" as "Health Insurance" in their own bill.

Another thing I believe is that I fell for your trap. You have been trying to make that point all along. You knew what I was saying and you have been trying to get me to see that there was a difference between, "medical care" and "health insurance". That was why you gave me a link that clearly stated my position and debunked the one that I thought you were making.

Well, I have always known that and I have always been discussing this system as reform of the Health Insurance Industry. Health Care Reform as passed by Congress and signed by the President has very little to do with medical care in this country. It deals with paying for it via health insurance.

There is not one thing in my comments that would lead anyone at all to the belief that the single payer is the health (aka medical) care provider. Just as Health Care Reform is not about reforming the Medical Provider Industry but rather the Health Insurance Industry, the Single Payer system is NATIONALIZED HEALTH INSURANCE. That is what I have said all along.

And that is exactly what the link you provided says.

The Single Payer system is Nationalized Health Insurance; here, in Canada, in the UK, everywhere. It is the elimination of thousands upon thousands of jobs in the US in health insurance aka health care industry.

It is the consolidation of all of our health insurance under the big tent of the Federal Government and that is exactly the problem. As I said, there are some good things that would come from it, but there are some very bad things as well... uncontrollable taxes is just one of those.

Immie

No it's you changing my words just like you changed Obama's words.
As I have said ALL ALONG, single payer does not mean nationalized health CARE, it is solely concerned with how the CARE is PAID FOR and NOT how it is delivered/provided.

What is Medicare/Medicaid?

 

[boedicca]

They are NOT the same thing, Stuttering LimpTard, even though you lack the honesty to admit it. Even after the difference was explained in the Wiki link, you choose to continue to lie in typical CON$ervoFascist fashion. You actually compounded your lie by claiming that the Gov was the single payer when the single payer can also be a POOL in addition to repeating your earlier lie.

Again from the earlier Wiki link, so again you have no excuse for your dishonesty:

Single-payer health care is the financing of the costs of delivering universal health care for an entire population through a single insurance pool out of which costs are met. There may be many contributors to the single pool (insured persons, employers, government, etc.)

What do you think Obama meant by Single Payer - and who would that Single Payer would be?

If it's the government, then it's Nationalized Health Care.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are both wrong, flatly.

Discuss.

Already have. Regulation is not socialism. Government payee forces the insurance industry to compete with each other.

And the only institution that is responsible for this is the insurance industry that predated on the consumer like a leopard instead caring for it like a shepherd.

 

[JakeStarkey]

They are NOT the same thing, Stuttering LimpTard, even though you lack the honesty to admit it. Even after the difference was explained in the Wiki link, you choose to continue to lie in typical CON$ervoFascist fashion. You actually compounded your lie by claiming that the Gov was the single payer when the single payer can also be a POOL in addition to repeating your earlier lie.

Again from the earlier Wiki link, so again you have no excuse for your dishonesty:

Single-payer health care is the financing of the costs of delivering universal health care for an entire population through a single insurance pool out of which costs are met. There may be many contributors to the single pool (insured persons, employers, government, etc.)

What do you think Obama meant by Single Payer - and who would that Single Payer would be?

If it's the government, then it's Nationalized Health Care.

No, it is not.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You can't be honest about anything.

HIS word was "universal" and you didn't take him at HIS word. YOUR word, or more accurately your MessiahRushie's word, was "nationalize" and that's the word YOU used because you rationalized that's what was in his mind when he said "universal."

No one ever said that the single payer was the provider of medical care. I believe you are changing your words around as I don't believe you have ever made that distinction in our discussions before and I am also certain that you know and knew what we have been discussing all along. Suddenly you are throwing "provider" in there when you know as well as I do, that we have been discussing the Health Insurance Industry for over a year. For over a year, this debate has not been about the providers of medical services (the doctors, nurses etc.) but rather health insurance. The government defined "Health Care" as "Health Insurance" in their own bill.

Another thing I believe is that I fell for your trap. You have been trying to make that point all along. You knew what I was saying and you have been trying to get me to see that there was a difference between, "medical care" and "health insurance". That was why you gave me a link that clearly stated my position and debunked the one that I thought you were making.

Well, I have always known that and I have always been discussing this system as reform of the Health Insurance Industry. Health Care Reform as passed by Congress and signed by the President has very little to do with medical care in this country. It deals with paying for it via health insurance.

There is not one thing in my comments that would lead anyone at all to the belief that the single payer is the health (aka medical) care provider. Just as Health Care Reform is not about reforming the Medical Provider Industry but rather the Health Insurance Industry, the Single Payer system is NATIONALIZED HEALTH INSURANCE. That is what I have said all along.

And that is exactly what the link you provided says.

The Single Payer system is Nationalized Health Insurance; here, in Canada, in the UK, everywhere. It is the elimination of thousands upon thousands of jobs in the US in health insurance aka health care industry.

It is the consolidation of all of our health insurance under the big tent of the Federal Government and that is exactly the problem. As I said, there are some good things that would come from it, but there are some very bad things as well... uncontrollable taxes is just one of those.

Immie

No it's you changing my words just like you changed Obama's words.
As I have said ALL ALONG, single payer does not mean nationalized health CARE, it is solely concerned with how the CARE is PAID FOR and NOT how it is delivered/provided.

What is Medicare/Medicaid?

They are forms of health care provided by private capitalists.

Next.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I get a kick out of the far right whingers try to redefine definitions.

 

[boedicca]

Yes it is. The government paying and setting prices (which is what ObamaCare does), is a fascist form of Nationalized Health Care.

 

[boedicca]

They are forms of health care provided by private capitalists.

Next.

How are prices set by Medicaid and Medicare - and how much money do providers lose taking care of such patients (which causes them to raise prices on the private sector funded ones)?

 

[Immanuel]

You can't be honest about anything.

HIS word was "universal" and you didn't take him at HIS word. YOUR word, or more accurately your MessiahRushie's word, was "nationalize" and that's the word YOU used because you rationalized that's what was in his mind when he said "universal."

They are the same thing Michael whether you have the courage to admit it or not.

Your messiah has promised this country to provide a Single Payer Health Care System aka Nationalized Health Care System within 15-20 years.

You don't have the honesty to admit it.

He was talking about the government the government being the single payer, not AETNA. You know it and I know it.

It has been what he, Harry and Nancy have been striving to provide all along. It was what they wanted this time around with the Public Option, but they could not get the votes to pull it off. Your messiah said that was what he wants but stated that he realized it would take 15-20 years to accomplish.

You are simply to dishonest to admit it.

You are also, to much of a damned coward to actually debate the issue without whining that other people are liars because they don't agree with your sorry ass.

Immie

Again, as the site makes very clear, the single PAYER is NOT the PROVIDER of health care services no matter how much you pontificate otherwise. Health CARE is NOT nationalized.

No one ever said that the single payer was the provider of medical care. I believe you are changing your words around as I don't believe you have ever made that distinction in our discussions before and I am also certain that you know and knew what we have been discussing all along. Suddenly you are throwing "provider" in there when you know as well as I do, that we have been discussing the Health Insurance Industry for over a year. For over a year, this debate has not been about the providers of medical services (the doctors, nurses etc.) but rather health insurance. The government defined "Health Care" as "Health Insurance" in their own bill.

Another thing I believe is that I fell for your trap. You have been trying to make that point all along. You knew what I was saying and you have been trying to get me to see that there was a difference between, "medical care" and "health insurance". That was why you gave me a link that clearly stated my position and debunked the one that I thought you were making.

Well, I have always known that and I have always been discussing this system as reform of the Health Insurance Industry. Health Care Reform as passed by Congress and signed by the President has very little to do with medical care in this country. It deals with paying for it via health insurance.

There is not one thing in my comments that would lead anyone at all to the belief that the single payer is the health (aka medical) care provider. Just as Health Care Reform is not about reforming the Medical Provider Industry but rather the Health Insurance Industry, the Single Payer system is NATIONALIZED HEALTH INSURANCE. That is what I have said all along.

And that is exactly what the link you provided says.

The Single Payer system is Nationalized Health Insurance; here, in Canada, in the UK, everywhere. It is the elimination of thousands upon thousands of jobs in the US in health insurance aka health care industry.

It is the consolidation of all of our health insurance under the big tent of the Federal Government and that is exactly the problem. As I said, there are some good things that would come from it, but there are some very bad things as well... uncontrollable taxes is just one of those.

Immie

No it's you changing my words just like you changed Obama's words.
As I have said ALL ALONG, single payer does not mean nationalized health CARE, it is solely concerned with how the CARE is PAID FOR and NOT how it is delivered/provided.

No, it is you who has changed your wording. I never once said any thing at all about how medical care was delivered. Every one of my posts have clearly stated this was about health insurance. Everyone you quoted above and everyone in the past. You on the other hand, have gone from a clearly defined term, "Health Care" (defined by the legislation itself) and suddenly changed your tune to "Provider".

It is you that changed, not me. This was, I believe and if you show me otherwise, I will accept it, the first time that you mentioned "provider". Prior to that, we had clearly been discussing Health Insurance as defined by the legislation.

Again, as the site makes very clear, the single PAYER is NOT the PROVIDER of health care services no matter how much you pontificate otherwise. Health CARE is NOT nationalized.

Immie

 

[PatekPhilippe]

No it's you changing my words just like you changed Obama's words.
As I have said ALL ALONG, single payer does not mean nationalized health CARE, it is solely concerned with how the CARE is PAID FOR and NOT how it is delivered/provided.

What is Medicare/Medicaid?

They are forms of health care provided by private capitalists.

Next.

Wrong. They are single payer healthcare plans. You should know the definition of "single payer" before making knee jerk answers like that.

 

[Immanuel]

You are both wrong, flatly.

Discuss.

Already have. Regulation is not socialism. Government payee forces the insurance industry to compete with each other.

And the only institution that is responsible for this is the insurance industry that predated on the consumer like a leopard instead caring for it like a shepherd.

I have the feeling you are not going to back up your opinion.

Come on, even Michael had the guts to do that.

Immie

 

[PatekPhilippe]

You are both wrong, flatly.

Discuss.

Already have. Regulation is not socialism. Government payee forces the insurance industry to compete with each other.

And the only institution that is responsible for this is the insurance industry that predated on the consumer like a leopard instead caring for it like a shepherd.

and yet you completely gloss over the fact that there is an entire medical equipment supply chain and people who earn money for their services involved with health insurance premiums that WILL NOT lower it's prices or take pay cuts.

Typical. Bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist.

 

[JakeStarkey]

They are forms of health care provided by private capitalists.

Next.

How are prices set by Medicaid and Medicare - and how much money do providers lose taking care of such patients (which causes them to raise prices on the private sector funded ones)?

They are forms of health care provided by private capitalists.

Stop lying.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

They are forms of health care provided by private capitalists.

Next.

How are prices set by Medicaid and Medicare - and how much money do providers lose taking care of such patients (which causes them to raise prices on the private sector funded ones)?

They are forms of health care provided by private capitalists.

Stop lying.

Wrong. Claims are submitted to and paid by the government...hence single payer.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Discuss.

Already have. Regulation is not socialism. Government payee forces the insurance industry to compete with each other.

And the only institution that is responsible for this is the insurance industry that predated on the consumer like a leopard instead caring for it like a shepherd.

and yet you completely gloss over the fact that there is an entire medical equipment supply chain and people who earn money for their services involved with health insurance premiums that WILL NOT lower it's prices or take pay cuts.

Typical. Bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist.

Put them in competition with each other for a single payer contract, and the contracts will come down and the services will improve. That's how modern capitlism works.

 

[boedicca]

No. Modern capitalism is not the government setting price controls for a service which individuals are mandated to purchase.

That is Big Government Cronyism.

 

[Immanuel]

Already have. Regulation is not socialism. Government payee forces the insurance industry to compete with each other.

And the only institution that is responsible for this is the insurance industry that predated on the consumer like a leopard instead caring for it like a shepherd.

and yet you completely gloss over the fact that there is an entire medical equipment supply chain and people who earn money for their services involved with health insurance premiums that WILL NOT lower it's prices or take pay cuts.

Typical. Bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist.

Put them in competition with each other for a single payer contract, and the contracts will come down and the services will improve. That's how modern capitlism works.

And how would you address the point in the link provided by Ed, that private health insurance was scheduled to be terminated?

Immie

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Already have. Regulation is not socialism. Government payee forces the insurance industry to compete with each other.

And the only institution that is responsible for this is the insurance industry that predated on the consumer like a leopard instead caring for it like a shepherd.

and yet you completely gloss over the fact that there is an entire medical equipment supply chain and people who earn money for their services involved with health insurance premiums that WILL NOT lower it's prices or take pay cuts.

Typical. Bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist.

Put them in competition with each other for a single payer contract, and the contracts will come down and the services will improve. That's how modern capitlism works.

I must disagree with this as it has absolutely no basis on which to measure it. Right now it's all conjecture. If it works? The Dem's are heros...if it fails they will never see the light of day again.